HMS Naiad 1797 by GDM67 - 1:60 - using Ed Tosti Books

[GDM67]

Hi Larnan,

 

Thanks for the kudos and the advice.  I guess I will take your advice and go ahead and clamp the ship down to the board with screws...  Is your build on line?  I couldnt find it.  I would love to follow it.

Thanks, Gary

[EdT]

Hi Gary.  Great work.  I agree with Laman about the hold down screws.  Unless you have another plan for holding down the final model, now is the time.  Model is looking great - and of course, so familiar.

 

Ed

[Jeronimo]

Hi Gary.

Great work.

Karl

[GDM67]

179 hours into the build -

 

I have now begun work on the next phase - Square Frames - these are very complicated and a wonderful challenge.  The difference in sided thichkness from one futtock to the next is anywhere from 1 3/4" to 2 1/2".  At scale, thats in thousands!  At first, I was just going to blend the sided thicknesses to one size, but in my humble opinion, that gets away from the whole point of building a ship in this style.  So out came the calipers in thousands!  I had to glue in some wood spacers in the keel slot since it was too wide.  I will file these down so there is a snug fit.  This will not be seen in the final model.  In subsequent frames, I will not cut this slot so wide on the first go around.

 

Note the subtle changes in frame thickness and how the chocks are cut.  I love this kind of detail.

 

Here is Main Frame 24.  The main frames are bolted together with spacers for breathing.  You really get a strong appreciation for how the shipbuilders mittigated wood rot through creative spacing techniques. This build is the best ship construnction education I have gotten as compared to just reading about it in books.

 

Note the amount of fairing to be done - later...

 

yes, the S/B side first futtock looks thin... It actually just on the margins... I will need to be careful here when fairing and gain some thickness back in the next frames. The gantry helps to align the frames center line. 

 

 

[druxey]

Yup, building one of these framed vessels is an education indeed!

[GDM67]

205 hours into the voyage.  I am now at frame 18f.  This is one of the main bends where 18a and 18f (Aft and Fore) are bonded together with 2.5" spacers along the frame, starting above the floor. I am very pleased with how things are turning out and as you can see from the template, the frames are at their correct shape. 

 

 

I have decided to deviate from the practicum briefly and will fair the top timbers completed to this point before moving forward with additional frames.  I feel this is necessary since there are a few out of place and this will affect the fairing of the hull further down the road. I will pin a batten along the sheer line using bamboo dowels to pull the timbers in line. I am choosing bamboo as opposed to brass pins so that I can fair the inside of the top timbers.  My longer-term plan is to place the ceiling timbers before full fairing of the outside.  This will offer the hull structure the best support possible.

 

Note the patterns are still attached.  While a bit tattered, they are a valuable road map.  I can't emphasize enough how iimportant it is to leave these patterns in place until the last possible moment.

 

Thanks, Gary

[albert]

Great work.

[aviaamator]

Well, that's how you all doing?!!! Continue to learn...

[druxey]

Nice progress, Gary.

[GDM67]

211 hours into the journey...

 

I have been doing some fine tuning this week and realigned the top timbers.  I was originally going to glue a strake across the outside top timber to fair the frames, but thought against it since it would lead to access issues at a later date.  Instead, I clamped a strake across the upper works and then reglued all the spacers for better alignment.  I am pleased with the results and obviously have a little more work to do.

 

 

 

There are 81 square frames on this build, thats a lot of repetition and hundreds of hours work.  I decided to batch make my frames in sets of 4 or 5.  As you can see from the photo, the ping pong table is doing double duty (at least until tomorrow).  You will note frames in various stages of completion.  I prefer to have as few wet glue joints as possible when gluing up the frames. While it may take longer to assemble each individual frame, it has improved the overall results.

 

Looking for a slight change of pace and a little deviation for the frames, I have begun to layout the keelson.  Here you can see various pieces for the stem and stern.  They are oversized slightly for fine tuning.  I used thick cardboard to make the patterns for the stern knee keelson and aft section.  While the scarph joints will not show, I am going to do them anyways since it will be good practice and will also help to reinforce the keel structure as they did on the real ship.

Edited June 6, 2016 by GDM67

[druxey]

Nice progress there, GDM67!

[albert]

Very nice work.

[dvm27]

Lovely work GDM67. Are you  leaving on the frame patterns when raising the frames (I believe I can see some traces between frames). Are they to be removed after fairing?

[GDM67]

HI Greg,  I appreciate your keen eye sight!  There are some pattern reminants here and there that will be sanded off later.   And then there are some other patterns that I forgot to take off...  My plan is to use the pattern of the previous frame to help position the newest frame.  Once I fine tune the new frame, I then take the pattern off the frame already glued in.  Once I take the ship off the build board, I plan to spend a lot of time out in the sun with files, sandpaper, and steel wool to tweak the ship - frame by frame.  Like many of you out there, I find the thought of that to be purly relaxing.  My wife and friends just think I'm crazy.

 

Thanks for the kudos everyone.  I really enjoy this log and the comments and questions. G

[GDM67]

236 hours into the journey...

 

Things continue to go well for the Naiad build.  I have developed a good rythm in making frames and have instituted a few additional quality checks before installation.  Namely, spending extra time to better square the frame ends and chocks.  There were a few that appeared sloppy that got by me...

 

I took the ship off the shipway over the weekend and spent a solid 5-hours on the front porch yesterday for Father's Day, just filing away.  My goal was to reach the near finished dimensions and to reflect on how I can improve upon my work.

 

Here is a shot of my new build table.  Since I do all of my work while standing, the table is tall.  Still to come are shelves and drawers.  It meastures 48"L x 24" W x 44" H.  The ends are rabbited and the middle panel is dadoed.  I used 3/4" cabinet grade plywood. It sits on poly swivel/locking wheels attached to an underneath stretcher assembly.  Yes, its probably a little over built.  I als added an electrical outet.  On the sides, I will add custom fittings to hold gantrys, clamps, squares, etc.  Finally, I addeed two lamps.  I cant believe how long I went without really good lighting!  There will be a book shelf at the bottom of each side as well as several long wood drawers and then multiple smaller shallow drawers for tools, etc.  Its a fun project that I will share more on as I go.

 

The photo is a bit skewed, everything is ship shape.

 

Still needs final sanding, polish and stain.

 

Another 60+ frames to go...

 

 

 

 

 

[druxey]

Good lighting is both a blessing and a curse. Shows up every little flaw! However, I can't see them in your work so far.

 

That is a very nice stand you are building there, GDM67.

[EdT]

Very nice work, Gary - and only a couple hundred hours work? Amazing.  

 

By the way, I keep meaning to mention -  Naiad's launch date was 1797, not the 1787 in your title.  the difference is that the correct date places her in the building program that supported the French wars that began in 1793, a period when British frigate design was desperately trying to compete with their French adversaries - at a time when French designs were being adopted in small degrees to address the (at least perceived) deficiencies.  

 

Naiad, with a gun deck length of 147', represents one design version of several (each increasing in length) between the first British 38's (Minerva Class, 141', 1787) to the final development of the British 38's, represented by the very successful 150' Leda Class (1800), of which some 39 ships were built into the 1830's.  This very gradual, progressive increase in length to overcome sailing problems with the battery of 28 18-pounders on the gun deck has seemed to me a monument to penny-pinching, conservative, incrementalism - a futile rear guard action against the increased costs of longer ships to effectively carry the larger armament.  Contrast this to the American leap from nowhere to the 175', 24 pounder, 44's with Constitution, President and United States in 1796.  Different navies, different missions, but certainly a more progressive advancement in design - as the War of 1812 battles attest.

 

Ed

[GDM67]

Hi All,  thanks for the likes and comments.

 

Ed - I tried to change the title at one point, but couldnt figure it out.  I will send an email to Admin.  I appreciate the history narrative.  It really adds to the overall build.

 

One thing that I wish I could do over are the bottoms of the frame footings.  These need to be snug and well set at the start.  While they may look good from the outside, its the fit that really counts.   Otherwise, when you fair them, any discrepancies show up rather quickly.

 

Best, G

[EdT]

Yes, a clean joint at the feet of the cant frames requires a squared off rabbet along the bearding line and tight fitting square ends on the frames so when they are sanded fair the line remains a smooth clean one.  Easier said than done but yours look fine from the photos.  This single curved bearding line vs. the stepped versions on earlier ships has its pluses and minuses from a modeling standpoint.

 

Ed

[GDM67]

Ed -

 

Question:  I am unable to locate a mid-ship framing pattern on the CD.  Also, with regard to patterns DF A, and DF F -  Are these duplicates of DA and DF?  There is not a location for them on the shipway plan.

 

Thanks, Gary

[EdT]

The frames are labelled DF for dead flat.  These are the midship frames.  Files names do not have the dead flat symbol.

 

Ed

[GDM67]

Thanks, Ed.  That explains everything so perfectly.  Best, G

[GDM67]

Look what I did on my summer vacation...

 

278 hours into the build of Naiad, with 51 hours in June.  Since the start of Naiad 5 months ago, I have averaged  23 days a month of building at about 53 hours each month.  You may have noticed that I like to keep stats.  As mentioned  before, I had never done that with my previous builds, but now I find it a great motivator.  Not to work faster, but to work more.  I try to get in the shop for a few minutes each day, which usually turns into much longer...  Most of my work is after 8pm when the kids go to bed.

 

While on vacation in the Sierra's of California, I took advantage of the downtime and made up all the framing templates as well as the patterns and chocks for the remaining frames.  There are over 400 pieces here.  They took a total of 24 hours to layout, cut, and paste.  I have found that assembly line fashion work increases my productivity as well as the quality of the work that I do.   I like the repetitive tasks and break each one down into its individual sub-assembly.

 

 

My goal is to cut about 10 frame pieces a day at the jig saw while accomplishing other Naiad work.  I estimate that this will take me through the first part of August.  After cutting each piece, I smooth them out at the drum sander before glue up.  The more fine-tuned the piece is before glue-in/up, the better the overall quality of the work.

 

Best, Gary

[druxey]

I'm amazed that, with children, you still have time and energy for a strenuous build! My model at that time was put away under plastic for ten years while my daughter was young. You have my respect, Gary.

[mtaylor]

I don't know how you're getting the hours in, but looking at what you've accomplished, you obviously are.  And very well organized, too.

[GDM67]

Thanks. Guys.  I have never been one to sit down and watch TV, instread, I head to the garage.  Not to mention that I have a very understanding Admiral. And, my OCD...

 

Greg, regarding organization of the templates, I like to put like frame pieces next to each other in the same orientation, resisting the temptation to use every square cm of wood.  In laying out the frames in this way, I  allow plenty of room between frames and rows as well.  When I go to cut the frames with the scroll saw, I am then able to make repetative cuts without funky twists and turns.. 

 

Best, Gary

[egen]

Hello,

I think than Statistics - is a very intresting soluion.

When I was building my own version of fregate, to gun-desk, I spend about 600 hour. (I keep a ditailed blog) 

But I'm not very tired and like to see Internet, until the glue dries ))

[GDM67]

Just a quick update to share.

 

I have begun the tedious, yet rewarding and fun task of cutting the futtocks and floors out using my scroll saw.  The ping pong table is full of these pieces.  Typically, there are 6 pieces per half frame with 4 chocks.  Thats 20 peices per frame.  All need to be precision cut, glued and fine tuned.

 

 

 

 

Now for the fun stuff!  To my delight, last night my neighbor came over and gave me this presentation fid that was given to her father over 49 years ago (six weeks before I was born...).  He was an Admiral and ran naval shipyards across the US and also was at Pearl Harbor as was his daughter (my friend).  She has always remarked that her father would have loved to see my shipbuilding, especially the gantry system.  I am honored to have such a family heirloom and will cherish it.  Both she and her husband are my families closest friends. 

 

 

[GDM67]

295 Hours into the Voyage...

 

As I approach the dead flat (midship frame) of the ship, beveling the frames has become less of an issue.  Each frame is just a fraction of the previous frame. 

 

Below are a few s/b shots of the ship with the new installment of frame 11F.

 

 

Below is frame 10f (forward) each frame section is composed of a fore and aft.  The main frame bends are the even number / lettered frames.  It is these frames that have the stretchers across the top.  I will be going back to reinstall some of the aft stretchers in my ongoing attempts to fair the top timbers.  The stretchers help keep the top timbers in alignment.  Without them, the ship wants to cave in on itself.  This will be easily rectified.  For those considering this build, keep the stretchers in as long as possible.  I removed a few to many, a little to early...

 

Here is where I have ended up as of last night. Frame 9f.  All my little friends are shown.  Clamps, single cut curved file, a razor blade, and miniature cabinet scraper. I have stayed far away from sandpaper up to this point and plan to do so until I go into final finishing.  Even then, sandpaper will be a secondary tool to the finished product. This is a major departure from how I used to build ships.

 

A few more thoughts:

Consider building this ship in 1:48 scale to take full advantage of all the scale drawings - they are truly impressive works in their own right. Obvioulsy, space will be an issue.

 

Consider building a few sample frames, such as the mid-ship frames, prior to embarking on the beveled frames like 24a/f.  Even with previous experience in POF and lofting, this is a new challenge.  Its a totally different kind of build that a sistered piece POF or Hahn style build.

 

I am planning to submit this ship to the NRG to share at the conference this fall.  I think more poeple should consider this style build.  Its what I call Extreme Plank on Frame Building "EPOF".

 

As an EPOF, I plan to fully detail the interior.  It would be ashame to cut corners now...

 

More next week.

Gary

 

[EdT]

Looking terrific, Gary.

 

Ed