Jim Lad Posted April 27, 2013 Author #151 Posted April 27, 2013 Just a small update on the Stag. I had some extra time at the museum yesterday so I was able to get a little more done - not much, as it's school holidays here and the museum was crowded, but I was able to at least get a start on rigging the shrouds. No photos today as I didn't have the camera with me, but I promise to have updated photos next week when I'm in. The really funny thing was that when I started to check the first port pair of shrouds for length, the chainplate pulled free as soon as I put a little weight on the deadeye! When I checked I found that I'd forgotten to pin the two forward chainplates on the port side! Boy, did I feel a dill!!! Thankfully this sort of oversight is easily rectified and all is now well (for the time being, at least)! John Quote
Shazmira Posted April 27, 2013 #152 Posted April 27, 2013 Another WOW!!!! She is beautiful John. I can only hope to be a quarter as good as you guys are. It amazes me how you can do this on such a small scale. I always think women would have an edge with smaller fingers, but I swear I find I am all thumbs lol. Quote Robbyn If you risk nothing, you risk everything! Current builds Syren (Model Shipways) version 2.0 AL San Francisco II Mordaunt (Euro Model) Completed Builds 18th Century Longboat designed by Chuck Passaro In the closet Battle Station Al Charles Morgan (1980s version)
Meredith Posted April 27, 2013 #153 Posted April 27, 2013 Beautiful LITTLE model. So much detail. And wonderful finishes. Quote Current builds: MS Syren HM Suppy Dos Amigos Completed: Schooner for Port Jackson MS 18th Century Longboat Bounty Launch
mtaylor Posted April 27, 2013 #154 Posted April 27, 2013 John, It's good that you caught that one early. I'm looking forward to seeing this beauty rigged. augie 1 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Jim Lad Posted April 27, 2013 Author #155 Posted April 27, 2013 Robbyn and Meredith - thanks for the support, ladies! Mark - I couldn't believe it when I saw that I'd only pinned 6 of the chain plates. I hope I haven't forgotten anything else! John Quote
mtaylor Posted April 27, 2013 #156 Posted April 27, 2013 Robbyn and Meredith - thanks for the support, ladies! Mark - I couldn't believe it when I saw that I'd only pinned 6 of the chain plates. I hope I haven't forgotten anything else! John Easy to miss something, in my opinion. These things aren't simple beasts but quite complex even by today's engineering standards. Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Jim Lad Posted May 1, 2013 Author #157 Posted May 1, 2013 Well, the spiders have started work in earnst now. The lower shrouds, forestay and running backstays are rigged, but not yet finally tied off, although that can be done anytime now. Next job, I think, will be to rig the boom as I won't be able to get to the parrel once a little more rigging is done around the mast. Then it'll be on to the ratlines - only one lower mast to do. Here are some pictures of where we are now. First, a few general views of the model. I think she's finally starting to look like a real cutter with the backstays rigged! The unusual arrangement of the backstays. These are very like the backstays that Petersson shows in his book 'Rigging Period Fore and Aft Craft', but are pretty unusual for the period judging by the contemporary models that I've seen. The inboard end of the backstays, showing the details as shown on the plans, which confirm the backstay arrangement as shown in the painting. The very unusual lower end of the forestay. This is shown in detail on the plan, so I have to assume that it's as rigged. The plan shows four turns of the laniard secured by four hitches, so my stay has (you guessed it) four turns and four hitches. I think I'm going too far!!! John druxey, janos and Cap'n Rat Fink 3 Quote
Padeen Posted May 1, 2013 #158 Posted May 1, 2013 Nice work on the stays and backstays, Jim! I admire your respect of the real knots on the model: you are not going too far! (If it can be done, why not do it... ) I had never noticed so many backstays on a cutter... but then, with all the canevas surface that the mast has to bear, it makes sense. Does the forestay actually go through the stern piece? Quote Padeen (Adeline) "When there is a will, there is a way" Completed build: Le Camaret - Constructo - static wood 1:35 (build log, gallery) Current build (very limited modelling time at the moment...): HMS Fly - Amati/Victory Models - static wood 1:64 (build log) Projected build: HMS Victory - Chris Watton's design - static wood 1:64 (when available..., no rush!)
popeye the sailor Posted May 1, 2013 #159 Posted May 1, 2013 wonderful rigging John..........she's looking sweet! Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch
augie Posted May 1, 2013 #160 Posted May 1, 2013 Nice work on the stays and backstays, Jim! I admire your respect of the real knots on the model: you are not going too far! (If it can be done, why not do it... ) I had never noticed so many backstays on a cutter... but then, with all the canevas surface that the mast has to bear, it makes sense. Does the forestay actually go through the stern piece? I don't think so Adeline. Looks like the bowsprit is slightly off center to port. Let's see what John says......I hadn't noticed that before. Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956
michael mott Posted May 1, 2013 #161 Posted May 1, 2013 John, your work on the rigging is very inspiring, I hope that my own attempts will be as authentic as yours are in their execution. Would those backstays have been let out on the leeward side when running? otherwise it would seem that they would resrtict the travel of the boom. Michael Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
captainbob Posted May 1, 2013 #162 Posted May 1, 2013 John, What talented spiders you have in Australia. Could you spare some when I need them? Fine job, and I agree with Padeen, “If it can be done, why not do it...”. Bob Quote Every build is a learning experience. Current build: SS_ Mariefred Completed builds: US Coast Guard Pequot Friendship-sloop, Schooner Lettie-G.-Howard, Spray, Grand-Banks-dory, a gaff rigged yawl, HOGA (YT-146), Int'l Dragon Class II, Two Edwardian Launches In the Gallery: Catboat, International-Dragon-Class, Spray
russ Posted May 1, 2013 #163 Posted May 1, 2013 John: It is great to see the rigging begun. Excellent work. Russ Quote T'aint a hobby if you hurry Completed projects Cross section model by Russ 1/48 scale Biloxi schooner model restoration 1/24 scale Biloxi oyster skiff 1/24 scale Biloxi schooner 1/48 scale POB Current project Biloxi lugger Captain Roy 1/48 scale POB
rafine Posted May 1, 2013 #164 Posted May 1, 2013 Very nice work on the rigging, John. Bob Quote Current builds on MSW: HMS Winchelsea 1:48: Medway Longboat 1:24 Prior builds on MSW: Schooner Halifax: Lumberyard 1/48 semi-scratch; Cutter Cheerful 1:48; Granado: Caldercraft 1:64; Frigate Essex: Kitbashed Model Shipways kit; Triton Cross Section 1:48; Kingfisher from Lauckstreet kit; Syren: Model shipways kit ;Kitbashed Fair American: Model Shipways;Prince de Neufchatel: Model shipways 1:64 Civil War Picket Boat
Jim Lad Posted May 2, 2013 Author #165 Posted May 2, 2013 Popeye, Russ and Bob (Rafine) - Thanks very much for your encouraging words. Adeline - They're actually single backstays, but set up with a variation of the double Spanish burton tackle, which gives a mechanical advantage of 8 times. I think, as you say, that that's an indication of the weight of canvas she carried! Augie - the forestay set up is really unusual. I first thought that the stay must run over a sheave between the bowsprit (offset to port) and the stem, but there isn't any space for it there. After much studying of the plans and an equal amount of head scratching, I decided that it actually ran through the stem. As the knee that it's lashed around is right on the centreline that makes sense as it gives a straight lead for the lashing. Bob (Cap'n'Bob) - we have to use spiders here. The rigging fairies won't come to Australia as they're too scared of the spiders! John augie and Padeen 2 Quote
augie Posted May 2, 2013 #166 Posted May 2, 2013 Thanks, John. Now I can see it. Glad it was your head, not mine Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956
clipper Posted May 2, 2013 #167 Posted May 2, 2013 Gosh Jim she's a lovely little lady, I can remember her when she was just a whale Tony Quote
michael mott Posted May 2, 2013 #169 Posted May 2, 2013 Hi John just in case you missed my question I will ask it again Would those backstays have been let out on the leeward side when running? otherwise it would seem that they would resrtict the travel of the boom. Michael Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
Jim Lad Posted May 2, 2013 Author #170 Posted May 2, 2013 Sorry, Michael. I saw your question and then forgot to answer it! And I'm afraid my answer is - I'm not sure; I only build 'em! If you go back to page 1 of this more or less rebuilt log you'll see the only known painting of the Stag showing her under full sail. Like all other paintings I've seen of such cutters, the mainsail is hauled in fairly flat - maybe to stop it from blanketting the square sails, which would give her a lot of driving power. of course the paintings may simply be using artistic licence to show a 'romantic' view of the cutters under full sail. It would be a pretty easy job to slack away the lee backstay - it's only two tackles to let go. I'd be intrested to hear from anyone who has any actual information on the sailing of these ships. John PS Actually I'd like to get some information on how they managed to keep these craft upright when they were under a press of sail - they don't draw a lot of water!!! Quote
Wintergreen Posted May 2, 2013 #171 Posted May 2, 2013 Hi John! If I may chime in here (great work buddy), about the running back stays. It is really in the name... "running".. The running back stay on the leeward side is eased off because 1. It don't support the mast when the wind is from the other side, but the more important 2. If it were to be hauled tight it would chafe not only the boom but more the sail. How do I know? Well, after reading Magz of classic boats for some years now, I've seen it enough times in pictures of old smacks and their alike to be sure. Also, in my own younger days I owned a skerry cruiser with running back stays... Upright? Can it be in the nature of the craft, beamy as they were/are. And then of course, about good seamanship...not to carry more sail than the weather permits... There might be several more answers, this was my 2 cents only! Padeen 1 Quote Happy modelling! Håkan __________________________________________ Current build: Atlantica by Wintergreen Previous builds Kågen by Wintergreen Regina by Wintergreen Sea of Galilee boat, first century, sort of... Billing Boats Wasa Gallery: Kågen (Cog, kaeg) by Wintergreen - 1:30, Billing Boats Regina - 1:30, Billing Boats Dana,
Jim Lad Posted May 2, 2013 Author #172 Posted May 2, 2013 Thanks for your 2 cents, Håkan! I know these craft were beamy, but there seems to be very little under the water and contemporary paintings show them carrying an aweful lot of canvas in fairly strong conditions. John Quote
Padeen Posted May 2, 2013 #173 Posted May 2, 2013 Thanks for the explaination John: I now have noticed the blocks on the backstays... and know that my eyes did not failed me for the forestay! Waiting for more updates... Quote Padeen (Adeline) "When there is a will, there is a way" Completed build: Le Camaret - Constructo - static wood 1:35 (build log, gallery) Current build (very limited modelling time at the moment...): HMS Fly - Amati/Victory Models - static wood 1:64 (build log) Projected build: HMS Victory - Chris Watton's design - static wood 1:64 (when available..., no rush!)
BANYAN Posted May 3, 2013 #174 Posted May 3, 2013 (edited) Hi John, that little beauty is coming along magnificently - great work! Now that you let the cat out of the bag re the spiders; who are you going to scare away when they find out about the snakes (and the ....) cheers Pat Edited May 3, 2013 by BANYAN Quote If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch) Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350) Built: Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)
popeye the sailor Posted May 4, 2013 #175 Posted May 4, 2013 OK.........I'll bite........what do the snakes do? Quote I yam wot I yam! finished builds: Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build Billing T78 Norden in dry dock: Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20 Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400 Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch
gjdale Posted May 4, 2013 #177 Posted May 4, 2013 Next thing you'll be having to explain our Drop Bears John! Quote Grant ____________________________________________________ Current builds: African Queen - Radio Control / Live Steam Previous builds: The Shipyard at Foss' Landing (Diorama), Hannah - Ship in a Bottle, NRG Capstan Project, 1869 Allerton Steam Pumper, Medway Longboat , Alfa Romeo Spider Gran Touring (Pocher) , Da Vinci Flying Machine, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout - Dumas - Radio, Bomb Vessel Granado, 1742 - Cross Section - Scratchbuild, HMS Victory (Mamoli 1:90), Cutty Sark, Armed Pinnace, Bounty, Santa Maria At another place: Stephenson's Rocket (OcCre 1:24) (click the title to follow the link) In the Gallery: Lancia Armata 1803, Bomb Vessel Granada, 1742 Cross Section, 1949 Chris Craft 19' Racing Runabout
Jim Lad Posted May 5, 2013 Author #178 Posted May 5, 2013 Crikey, Grant, don't mention Drop Bears - you'll frighten the tourists away!! John Quote
augie Posted May 5, 2013 #179 Posted May 5, 2013 We have bear droppings. Does that count? Quote Augie Current Build: US Frigate Confederacy - MS 1:64 Previous Builds : US Brig Syren (MS) - 2013 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Greek Tug Ulises (OcCre) - 2009 (see Completed Ship Gallery) Victory Cross Section (Corel) - 1988 Essex (MS) 1/8"- 1976 Cutty Sark (Revell 1:96) - 1956
Jim Lad Posted May 5, 2013 Author #180 Posted May 5, 2013 Not quite, Augie! I'd rather meet a bear dropping than a Drop Bear!! John Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.