HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72

[Chuck]

So how goes the research on the rigging details.  Getting close to resuming work on her.  Hope to see more of the model soon Pat.

[Keith Black]

7 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Hope to see more of the model soon

Me also, Pat. I've missed seeing your updates. 

[BANYAN]

Hi guys thanks for looking in and I should have posted an update on what is happening.  The lack of posts results from a few reasons, chiefly that after a 4 month hard ( I mean very very restrictive) lockdown here I had to put the model aside for a while to catch up on all the Spring/Summer chores and the 'honey please do' list    At least the outcome of the lockdown has been great as we have all but eliminated any community transmission of covid for the time being.

 

The other reasons being tied to RESEARCH (ugh, it is becoming a chore now  )   I cannot progress the remaining deck furniture until I finalise the Rigging and Belaying Plans.  I am about 25% into that.  In the meantime the lower masts have been made and I will soon post an update on the 'tops' which are also of a very 'different design to those commonly seen, even in this era.  Unfortunately analysis of the available imagery when compared with the Rigging Warrant results in a rigging and belaying plan that does not align with those offered by contemporary and other authors such as Kipping, Fincham, Underhill, Crothers, McKay etc.  As such I am having to follow each line individually in a 'virtual' configuration to determine the likely rigging arrangement and belaying points such that they do not interfere with each other and conform with the imagery.

 

One example being that unlike the options proffered by the authors, the topmast backstays were configured the opposite of the usual rigging practices in that the forward backstay was set-up as a breast (permanent not temporary) and the after set-up as a standing backstay (preventer) to a rigging screw in the channels.  Anyway more on all of this as I get to grips with the rigging in the new year.  Hopefully the new year will bring a return of the 'mojo' I need to complete this.

 

cheers, and again, thanks for your interest Chuck and Keith.

 

Pat

Edited December 17, 2020 by BANYAN

[KeithAug]

8 hours ago, BANYAN said:

At least the outcome of the lockdown has been great as we have all but eliminated any community transmission of covid for the time being.

The good news Pat is that by the time the Australian winter arrives vaccines should be widely available. May you all have a happy and unrestricted Christmas.

[Keith Black]

Pat, Merry Christmas to you and yours and a Happy New Year.......Keith

[BANYAN]

Thank Keith B, and wishing you and your family a safe and happy Christmas; with hopefully a better 2021.

 

Keith A, that is the hope.  Fingers crossed these vaccines will bring a halt to this horror.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[dak4482]

Hello all.

I see mentioned references to rigging warrant and the contract for the Victoria. Is there a source we can access for these documents. I havent read thru all 22 pages of this discussion yet so I apologize if this has been answered already.

 

Dan

dak4482@comcast.net

[BANYAN]

Dan, the Rigging Warrant, Contract etc I mention are all open source public records at the Public Records Office of Victoria (PROV) - the PROV are on line and you could order them if required?  These documents are very specific to this ship though and would not be of much use for other ships as Victoria was very unusual.   Might help you if you are trying to identify mid-19th century sail /rigging configurations.

 

The Rigging Warrant is an attachment to a letter from Commander Lockyer (Build Superintendent) to the then Governor of the Colony (Sir Charles Hotham) and is located in VPRS 1189 Box/Unit 580 Unregistered letter dated 20 December 1855.   The Specifications (Not the Deeds/Articles Agreement /Contract) for the Engines (Annex A) and the Ship (Annex B ) are on the web as a transcribed PDF document.  A search for VPARL1854-55 NoA79  (1854-5  Victoria  Screw Steamer and Dredging Vessel).  The original document was published by the Government Printer 17th April 1855.  The Contract  (Agreement -  Articles)  is also in the PROV under  VPRS 1189 P0 Box/Unit 580 (Unregistered)  and dated 26th January 1855.

 

Her Majesty's Colonial Screw Sloop (HMCSS) Victoria was designed and built on the principles of a warship (a one off design Screw Steam Sloop based on the contemporary RN Gun Despatch Vessels circa 1850s).  She was built by a mercantile ship builder (Young and Co., at Limehouse Docks in London) for the Colony of Victoria (before we became a State in the Federation of Australia).  While outfitted as a warship, she was never commissioned as a naval ship.  She was minimum manned and rigged IAW merchant ship practices (according to Capt. Norman's preferences).  She was rigged as what the Specification and other correspondence called a 'Barque', but in effect was a modified form of that which I have called a 'Steamer' rig.  The Rigging Warrant appears to have been completed after she was rigged by the builder.  This is not the Rigging Warrant referenced as an attachment to the Contract - which has not been found (if it ever existed).

 

Is there a particular interest?  I am about 40% into determining the 'probable' Rigging and Belaying Plans.  If you have further questions on these documents, rather than clog the build log, could you please PM me?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited January 15, 2021 by BANYAN

[Keith Black]

 Pat, thank you for taking the time to describe in detail source and information regarding the Rigging Warrant. Your post is the essence of MSW, the unselfish willingness to share information to the betterment of all who have interest in the hobby of model ship building. Your examples of both a willingness to share and your beautiful workmanship is inspiration to us all, myself foremost. Again, thank you.............KB

[BANYAN]

Thanks Keith, as you say, that is what this hobby should be all about, and there are many modellers in this forum willing to do so.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Sorry for the long delays and spasmodic posting of updates, but I have been somewhat distracted from the build by research.  I am at the point I cannot progress until I finalise the rigging and belaying plans, and noting the unique rigging arrangements, this is taking a lot longer than I anticipated.  Progress is good and I and in the final stages of that which has allowed me to make some small progress on the build.  I have completed the lower spars  and adding the fittings now.  I will post some photos of them soon.

In the meantime I have progressed the sheet bitts as shown below.  I must thank Mike Shanks for his assistance in CNC cutting these for me.  I drew up the plans for these and for the PE.  Even at 0.2mm the PE looks slightly oversized, but the best I could get done locally.  For reference, the brass strips along the cross-piece is only 1mm wide and I tried to simulate the screwheads (not that successful though).

 

The single bitts are placed , one each side abaft the mizen, while the two sets with cross-pieces are placed before the fore and main masts.

   

 

 

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited April 29, 2021 by BANYAN

[Louie da fly]

That's beautiful work, Pat. Well worth the wait.

 

Steven

[Jim Lad]

Great to see an update, Pat.  More lovely work.

 

John

[Tony Hunt]

They look really good. The CNC cutting for the pulleys is wonderfully crisp, perfect at that scale.

[Keith Black]

Pat, beautiful. Nice to see you post. 

[wefalck]

Pat, you have all my sympathies. I can appreciate your struggle. Since Christmas I have tried to make blocks that fulfill my own expectations.

 

Sometimes following more closely the prototype can actually be simpler. I could image that milling full slots into the bits might be simpler and then to insert turned or etched sheaves. People tend to be in awe of 'real' sheaves in blocks, but from a manufacturing point of view this can be a simpler option.

 

Keep it coming !

[BANYAN]

Thanks all for looking in and very encouraging comments, much appreciated. 

 

Tony, yep, CNC cutting is far better than laser cutting, particularly at this scale.  Laser cutting risks potential damage to the parts when cleaning the char (even if cut at low power levels).  I did try laser cut parts but I was no overly enamoured with them.

 

Eberhard, I understand your suggestions, and did try to use brass sheaves.  My attempts to turn them were very unsatisfactory, but it did not even dawn on me to use PE (well, at least it is a good idea to remember if I ever need to redo them).

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited May 3, 2021 by BANYAN

[BANYAN]

Another small update; the watch bell has been added to the binnacle.  This was turned by another club member; it is only a few millimetres in size (5 x 3 if I recall).  This bell was called for in the Specification/Contract, in addition to the ship's bell,  but only stated that it was to be in the vicinity of the helmsman.  We thought this to be an appropriate place?  The compass cover has not been glued down yet as we are think of making one from copper/brass.  This is a white metal one that has been adapted and painted brass.

 

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited May 3, 2021 by BANYAN

[Jim Lad]

Looks good, Pat, and I like the idea of a brass binnacle cover if it can be done.  Re the bell; who would be responsible for ringing it on a Grey Funnel Line ship?  That would determine the location.

 

John

[BANYAN]

Thanks John.  In the modern day that would be the Quartermaster - I think back then also; so it is in a convenient place without getting in the way.  I placed the door of the binnacle to the rear as a form of spray protection; but if flipped around, the bell would be in an even better place

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Keith Black]

Pat, the photo in #648 is really neat. Lovely work. 

[rwiederrich]

Great work Pat....love how she is coming along.

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Thanks for looking in and comments Keith and Rob; much appreciated.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Ok folks, another small update.  This shows current progress of what I have actually fitted  but there are a lot of items already made up (such as davits) that are yet to be added.    The new updates show the bitts and fore pinrails fitted (but belaying pins still to be added) and the 'charlie noble'.  I am in the process of designing the gallows, which incorporated a 100 gallon freshwater tank and the belfry, at the moment.  This will be fitted just abaft the foremast. 

 

 

 

 

 

In the meantime I am also working on the bowsprit which can also be seen in the first photograph.  The gammoning (chain) with its scotchman (iron sheet nailed to the top of the bowsprit) has been added.   

 

I am also working on the stay (fore, main and mizen) tackles which I am pre-fitting and will add the stays later as there won't be much room to fit the forestay tackles in particular.  As you can see these were made up from the more modern style internally iron bound blocks (sourced from Chuck - Syren).  The lower block is fitted to the deck eyebolt with a ring.  The eyebolts have a thread applied so they will grip the wood better when glued in place.  I have based the tackle on some detail extracted from a photograph taken in 1865 which provided confirmation of the type of block and allowed me to calculate the size of the block (13")  - Chuck's block equates to just over 12.5" at 1:72 so is pretty close.  I have still to clean the stain from the iron eyes etc - this is just a proof/trial of how to make them up.  From the eyebolt to the eye of the treble block is 22mm.  For those intrigued, I am using one of Michael Mott's excellent third hands, fitted with hook arms kindly made for me by Eberhard Falck.  The block shells are 4.5mm long.

 

 

 

cheers

 

Pat

[KeithAug]

All looking very smart Pat. I enjoyed magnifying the deck photos and taking a self guided tour. Nice little bell, I guess it does not have striker at that scale?

[Jim Lad]

Just catching up after being away for a bit, Pat.  Looking really good!  Stay safe down there.

 

John

[BANYAN]

Thanks Keith and Jim, appreciate you looking in and for the kind comments.  Yep, just a tad small for the scale to add the striker   I will ensure it is included in the ship's bell up forward though.

 

Speaking of which, i am having some difficulty coming up with an acceptable (doable) way of making the top of the belfry.  I need to make this the usual centre curved (concave) with ears with minimal decoration.  I am thinking three very thin layers of wood each slightly narrower in width to give appearance of staggered layers.  Just not sure how I will go about forming the curve with horizontal projections yet.  I have entertained the idea of milling a single piece with the steps and then trying to steam/water and heat bend over a former but first attempt deformed the steps.  Trying this with laminated layers would separate them unfortunately  

 

All suggestions entertained.

 

cheers 

 

Pat

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by BANYAN

[Louie da fly]

Pat, do you have a photo of the original belfry? I've worked with making fake curves in wood and might be able to come up with some ideas if I could see what's being aimed at.

 

Steven

[BANYAN]

Hi Steven, remembering, like you (but not as small as yours) I am working at 1:72, so these will be quite small.

 

The imagery I have of the belfry infers that it is a timber rather than a metal frame, however, a valid argument could be made for either.  The belfry appears to be fitted on top of another structure otherwise it would not be visible above the roughtree rails.  It is therefore possible that it forms part of the gallows structure (only place the gallows could be based on other equipment etc).

 

HMCSS Victoria Lithograph (Crop) - original from State Library of Victoria (SLA)

 

If the belfry was constructed with a metal frame, these were usually a single-arch (as shown below), and a relatively thin structure.   However, the profile of the curves for such a frame conforms much tighter to the shape of the bell as depicted in the lithograph, and it is much thinner than what is shown by the artist.  The version shown below sat on the riser timbers and would have been more conically depicted by the artisist if this type was used?

     

Typical Metal Frame Belfry as fitted to MV Coho

 

David Steel, ‘The Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship’, Volume 1, 1794, - Folio XXXIV – for a wood structure, informs that for a Sloop of War, the belfry should stand 2’ 5” above the beams.   This ties in well with the scaled version of the lithograph when underlain with the CAD plan and use the gallows end boards in lieu of the deck beams (i.e. 2' 5" above the top of the end boards).  

 

My interpretation so far is shown below which shows the 100 gallon freshwater tank which will be braced by the gallows end boards (and two rails - I have yet to completely draw/finish the gallows structure ) - the front timbers go down to/through the deck and will fasten to the deck beams in similar fashion to the bitts.  I know the lithograph shows them more slanted, but the artist's perspective used had the ship on a slight bow on aspect, which may have influenced/skewed his depiction (well that is my current story  )

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited June 1, 2021 by BANYAN
Replaced image with larger version

[mtaylor]

Pat, it looks like it's flip a coin time on the belfry.  Given the info you've shown, it would seem that metal would have been likely but then a case can always be made for wood.  My thinking is that being attached to the water tank that metal would seem more likely.  But then again, you're the model builder, the master of the realm, and most knowledgeable.