Soleil Royal by Hubac's Historian - Heller - An Extensive Modification and Partial Scratch-Build

[Hubac's Historian]

Given that plastic is a petroleum product, I do have some concern that bitumen may not be the best thing, in this application, but I would be using a dilute solution for staining purposes.  Consensus seems to be that dilute washes do actually dry completely. 

[kirill4]

Good day Marc ,

I used it, as dilute solution for additional staining sails and for that parts of decor, where I used semi gold leaf... to enhance relief... it works good... when bitumen dry, color of the sails became 4 or more times pale\ brightened compare to the wet sails just colored by diluted bitumen... 

I didn't try it on naked\unpainted plastic or for staining ropes, for that, for the ropes- by my opinion would be better to use artistic oil paints of proper colors diluted in danish oil... it makes more realistic effect in colors and appearance than brownish colors which gives bitumen...

  I didn't try it yet(artistic oils) , but I impressed how it works looking at D.Shevelev models rigging... https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=335674#p335674

https://www.shipsofscale.com/gallery/dshevelev/french74/index.html

diluted bitumen he uses for hull masts and spars staining... but I think I already many times mentioned this modeler and technics he used  as good example of craftsmanship 

[kirill4]

in continuation of using bitumen, today one of our colegue posted his result of using bitumen for aging effect - applied above acrylic paint... by my opinion looks pretty good!

http://karopka.ru:443/forum/messages/forum190/topic32388/message1547646/#message1547646

[Hubac's Historian]

Yes, I’m a fan of Mr. Shevelev!  This last link you posted was a bad gateway, though.  Can you screenshot the work, by any chance?

[kirill4]

will try - look at wooden effect, bitumen on ochre base ,not accurateness of his modelling

[Hubac's Historian]

No doubt - it does produce a nicely weathered effect.

[kirill4]

But this variant of transformatiom plastic tonwooden is my lovely :)))

https://karopka.ru/community/user/14122/?MODEL=460592

 
Корпус: основной цвет грязно коричневый (на глаз), далее сухая кисть темперой - сиена натуральная и охра светлая, потом битумный лак с расстворителем 1:1.
Палуба: песочный, проливка тамия - темно коричневая и снова сухая кисть темперой - сиена натуральная и охра светлая.

Body: the main color is dirty brown (by eye), then a dry brush with tempera - natural sienna and light ocher, then bituminous varnish with a 1:1 thinner.
 Deck: sand, tamiya wash - dark brown and again dry brush with tempera - natural sienna and light ocher.

 

       

Edited January 17, 2023 by kirill4

[popeye2sea]

Tongue in cheek, but the other ancient name for Bitumen of Judea was Asphaltum. So, next time you see the crew repairing the cracks in the road with liquid asphalt, have them give you a bit and dilute it with some mineral spirits.  😲😏

I'll crawl back into my hole now.

 

Regards,

Henry

[kirill4]

Nice observayion!!!... I think You are right...it is the same !:)))

[shipman]

This bitumen is horrible stuff!

 

Youtube has countless fascinating tutorials creating wood effects on 'plastic'.

[wefalck]

Didn't pop in here for quite a while ... I am always impressed by your cutting/carving of styrene! How did you cut out and carve those corbels? Using a fret-saw?

 

On the use of asphalt solutions etc.: I appreciate that the antique effect on wooden models is quite nice, because it penetrates well, but in the case of plastic models I think there are other ways to achieve a similar effect.

 

I have used washes of very dilute burnt umber acrylics to good effect.

 

Other people use oil paints, brushed on and then wiped off, so that it only stays in depressions. If the base is matt acrylics, this also partially penetrates into the acrylics, leaving a similar effect as on wood. Personally, I not so fond of oils because of their long setting times (which on the other hand facilitates their working - as long as you keep the model in the dark, you can continue working).

 

In general, the fewer paint systems one mixes, the better ...

[Chapman]

Hi Marc!

I rarely check in here these days, but I'm still interested and fascinated by what I see here.

If oil paints then Griffin Alkyd by Winsor & Newton. These dry quickly.

 

[Chapman]

Pentart solvent-based bitumen/patina might also be something for you.

[Hubac's Historian]

Thank you, Wefalck.  Back when I was making the trailboard out of 1/16” styrene, and struggling to clear waste without breaking the part, I had an epiphany; I could drill a series of closely spaced holes all around the part and then it was easy to remove the part because a sharp box knife can easily cut through the perforation.  I then use a Dremel to get closer to the line, and needle files to define the line.

Hello Chapman - thank you for checking-in.  As a matter of fact, it is precisely Windsor and Newton Oils that I use for my ventre-de-biche aging and my natural wood effects.  They have a long enough open time to be easy to use, and yet they dry completely within 24 hours - provided, of course, that you have not left a heavy accumulation.

 

Doubly matter of fact, it is the Pentart Bitumen, specifically, that I am currently waiting on.  I’ve received no notices from seller saying they can’t ship, so fingers crossed!

 

I probably will experiment with Bitumen as a distress wash over acrylics, but my primary intention is to stain the anchor cables and standing rigging with the stuff.

[aurelien wolff]

Coming back to the thread, always like seeing the carving work and stern colors. I'll base my windows on the "chambre de volontaires" drawing in guy M document, and I started making plans for the stern façade (rough scheme to know where I start from and another one showing the modification I need to do).

[mtaylor]

If, after this discussion, do a Google.   According that fount all wisdom, Home Depot carries it as other stores.  

[t_corret]

You may be able to buy it in your favorite fine woodworking shop in the stains and finishes area.

[Hubac's Historian]

I have painted and distressed the corbels and the upper window tier.

I found myself swearing early and often, as I repeatedly broke off the doors from the window tier.  There isn’t much plastic connecting them, and until they’re glued into the model, they are exceptionally fragile.

I appreciate the tip, T_C, but presumably my bitumen is making its long journey across the Atlantic like the swarthy pilgrim it is.  As I wait, I continue to construct the stern.  I made up and fitted the next transom header, so that I can glue-in the window tier:

Although the winding out of square continues, it does so marginally and the eye really doesn’t see it:

With the header in-place, I could begin to focus on the design of the most challenging aspect of the decor:  as the French call it - the Couronnement.  It is somewhat hilarious to me that after all of this effort to make the hull wider, the tafferal ends up being only fractionally wider than the stock stern plate:

This development is the result of fashioning the internal gussets that support the aft bulwarks, at an angle that promoted a more realistic tumblehome for the after castle;  the stock kit is a little more vertically slab-sided in its approach to this detail.  Here, you can see the comparison between the tafferal width I thought I’d have (at the start of the project) and where I ended up:

 Despite this not un-satisfactory development, Tanneron and Heller (following suit) chose to represent the backboard (tafferal) as improbably tall for the refit of 1689.  So, in other words, I was going to have to re-fashion this area anyway.

 

Towards that end, much earlier in my modification of the upper bulwarks, I cut away the poop royal sheer-step (5/16”+), only to replace it by 1/2 that height of a more realistic, low, sheer rail that is more reflective of the times:

However, the more significant  shortening of the tafferal comes from lowering the side support for the outer lanterns, so that they are aligned with the sheer rail, as opposed to above it.

 

The first step was to re-draw the goose-neck cornice because I never liked Heller’s interpretation of this detail:

Next, I had to define the field for Apollo and his quadriga, which meant defining the height for the bar of astrological symbols along the top.  On the stock kit, these are a continuation of the side lantern supports which I will re-cycle for this build.  However, to follow the height of those boxes does not leave me with a large enough field for the main carving, below; see the dotted line proposed in the upper right.  So, I decided to cheat that line upward about a 1/16”.  It will necessitate hand-painting these astrologic symbols into these tiny paneled recesses, but that is okay.

 

The really good news is that I will be able to re-shape the swagging vestments of Europe and Asia to fit the new cornice shape:

This is really great because, as it is, I have to re-carve The Americas and Africa because the stock figures are too tall and Africa has the wrong posture.

 

The next task was to see whether my original drawing of Apollo could be reduced enough to reasonably fit my field.  Here is the full-size drawing:

I did a series of reductions, at 50, 60, and 70%.  Seventy percent was close:

As compared to the kit carving:

But, I felt it encroached too much on the upper and lower boundaries of the field.  I settled on 67%:

As compared with Berain’s drawing:

I’m not totally satisfied with the scrolled vollute.  It’s too big. I’ll have to re-work the clouds to conform more neatly with the lower moulding, but I am happy with the scale of Apollo and his horses.

 

It is not as wide as Berain drew it, but this will allow me to better create my gradient sky from light cerulean blue to dark azurite, up top. radiating outward in all directions, from behind Apollo will be fine needles of sun-light  in gold and silver gilt.  Apollo and his horses will be all gold and the clouds will be temperamentally white and grey.  Once I am satisfied with the scroll, I can photocopy the drawing and make a reverse copy, so that the port side can be matched to its mirror for a perfectly symmetrical pattern.

 

My motivation is to have the stern fully framed and perhaps even painted by the time of Joint Clubs on April 30th.  I think this would be a satisfying resolution to everything that came below:

In other news and notes, I have made satisfying in-roads into Dassie’s Architecture Navale.  I now have a pretty solid understanding of the proportional derivation of the principal elements of a ship, although there is still much translating to do.  This essentially amounts to re-typing all relevant passages into Google Translate because the photo capture feature never results in nearly as intelligible a translation as the more tedious path.  My French is improving though, as a result, and full transcriptions are becoming less necessary as I develop a vocabulary of French ship nomenclature.

 

I am simultaneously doing the same translation work on the 1685 Le Have du Grace dimensional survey of what is presumed to be the pre-refit Soleil Royal.  It is extremely helpful that this document (which I downloaded from Gallica) has a numbered drawing that details all of the principal parts of a ship and it’s framing.

 

What is fascinating is that the neither Le Havre du Grace nor Dassie’s prescriptive formulas correspond with what was supposed to be SR’s original length of keel:

 

As built: 142’

Le Havre du Grace: 140”

Dassie:  136’

 

I have been applying Dassie’s formulas to SR’s particulars, as I go, and ultimately I will have a more complete comparison with the Le Havre de Grace document.  This is all ground previously tread by Michel Saunier, and in-fact, I still have a copy of his exhaustive tabulation of all the dimensions of every aspect of the ship.  He emailed this to me years ago.  I still think this is a worthwhile exercise, though, to better understand how he arrived at where he did with his model.

 

Anyway, it keeps me occupied.  Thank you for your interest, your likes and your comments.  More to follow!

[Hubac's Historian]

On a related tangent, following is a really fascinating look at the Jean Bart project at Gravelines.  This is essentially a full interpretation of the 80-gun ship proposed in Album de Colbert, from 1670.  The promotional model they made for the project is cartoonishly out of scale and proportion, but the lines plan they have developed for construction looks very good to my eye.

 

After 20 some years, the builders have framed to just below the lower main wale.  This is particularly instructive to me, as the shape and volume of the so-called “live-works” is now quite clear:

 

 

Turn on captioning for a reasonable translation of what’s being said.  As was the case with the Provincien project, this is an open air construction, necessitated I suppose for the crane to lower futtocks from above.  I have my fingers crossed that the backbone of the ship won’t be rotten before the decks are framed and closed-in.

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Hubac's Historian

[yancovitch]

ach...such a fuddy-duddy 😁......you know..... i consider myself a very brave man just to continue following this build, cause for me, it's scary.....very very scary....the amount of extreme attention to detail you put in...and i can't believe how you, and some others, can actually know the terminology and names for every aspect of the ship's anatomy....me, i'm not even sure where the poop deck it.....and the only reason i remember that, is because of the funny name.....probably a lot of mops on hand there......

     but in the end.....what an inspiration!!!....

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by yancovitch

[druxey]

The video; formidable!!!

[SJSoane]

Marc,

Thanks so much for finding that video. Astonishing.

One of the most striking items for me is the frame construction system. It does not use sistered frames and a frame and space arrangement as in the 18th century English ships. The single frames abut each other, alternating floors with futtocks and eventually top timbers. It is framed just like the English Admiralty dockyard models of the 17th and early 18th century. Franklin's Navy Board Ship Models book discusses this full size practice as the likely source for this modeling technique, and now I see it firsthand. So the framing of my model of the Bellona replicates this actual practice; I hadn't quite realized that before.

And you can only imagine what it was like to construct this before chain saws and cranes....

 

Mark

 

[Ian_Grant]

Wow! What a project. I couldn't follow all the French, it's been too long since high school, but I caught the gist. I think you're right to be concerned about the ship sitting in the rain all these years. 😬

[Ian_Grant]

I noticed one of the pictures at the start of the video depicted a ship with its bowsprit gammoning reaching to waterline. Good news as if I raise my SR's waterline to where I want, the same thing would happen. On the other hand I read somewhere that the gammoning slots could be placed higher.

[Hubac's Historian]

Hi Ian - for the ships of the 1670s and 80s, where the beakhead is more elongated, elevated and Dutch-like, the gammoning tends to be a little more removed from the waterline:

 

Towards the end of the century, though, the head configuration changes, and the beakhead sweeps down closer to the water:

 

[wefalck]

What always puzzles me is, how utterly impractical from both, the handling and the maintenance perspectives these ships must have been - dressed to impress ...

[Hubac's Historian]

Yes, this is what I love about them: completely over the top Baroque splendor that distracts from the true purpose of these war machines.  That is, until a broadside roars to life and all of that careful carved work explodes in a blizzard of splinters.  It’s this brazen dis-regard for the excesses of the construction juxtaposed with the enthusiasm to repair and restore it all after battle that makes this epoch so fascinating to me.

 

The allegories that inform the ornamental programs of each French ship are intended to reflect the virtues of the king, but really - monarchs of the time were brutal, savage killers.  Battle injuries and casualties on a wooden warship were simply horrific.

[robdurant]

Looking at those pictures it really is shocking how close the lower gunports were to the waterline. The idea of these ships heeling under sail is scary.

 

Thank you for sharing this research and build with us all. Simply fascinating.

[Hubac's Historian]

Thank you for having the interest!  Yeah, 3 - 5’ is all the free-board they had at any given time.

[popeye2sea]

The other function of these floating palaces was to show the power, influence, and wealth of the monarch. Of course they had to be repaired right after a battle. How dare the Navy give a tarnished reputation of the crown.

 

Regards,

Henry

Edited February 11, 2023 by popeye2sea