Atlantis by Thistle17 - FINISHED - Robbe

[Thistle17]

The wishbone connectivity to the fore mast has become problematical. I am conflicted by the many versions of the fisherman sail I review on line. I have seen the sail rigged with and without the wishbone element. I have seen the wishbone attached to the (fore) mast and not attached. This is especially true when it is used as a boom replacement. Today I realized if I use the wishbone (it would be a lot simpler if I didn't) it has to pivot off the mast and has to have a mast attachment that will allow the sail to pass up and through the mast receiver. So now I have to attempt to come up with a form of mast yoke that answers both requirements. This is driving me a bit crazy. Here is a decent image of what I am troubled by.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Thistle17
grammar

[Thistle17]

It is nearly 2 weeks since my last post.  I must admit that after hours of web search and doodling I have failed to come up with a decent rendering of what the mast attachment for the wishbone should look like and I might add something I could readily fabricate. So I have had to admit "defeat" and move on. Since the model is to be a static display I have decided to fabricate a simple fore mast clip that wraps around the mast's teardrop shape and gives some appearance that some attachment device does exist.

 

Pictured below are the remade wishbone elements. They are made of mahogany strips (2) and have been wet formed on a mold. The elements when dry were glued together and trimmed down to 5/16" X 5/32" dimension. To each end I have let in a brass rectangle tube (of the described dimensions) to give some realism to the elements. Note they are longer than the original wishbone elements supplied in the kit as they now will be attached to the mast and not the sail. I also had to ensure that the mast location for attachment did not interfere with the shroud lines fed down through the mast tubing. The left most ends still need to be tapered to conform to the mast cross section. I plan to do this with some mill machining and finish off with files. The members will be screwed to the fore mast/fashioned collar. The right ( free) end will receive appropriate rigging elements to (1) pull the sail taught and (2) facilitate both up haul and down haul rigging to keep the sail trim. Since all sails will be positioned along the keel I will avoid having to address the rigging mechanisms that would normally be required on a "reach" for the fisherman sail.

 

To some these compromises would be frowned on I am sure. However I have to take this path else the model will never get delivered!

 

Joe

Edited April 14, 2018 by Thistle17
Error

[Thistle17]

Looking back I observe that I raised the masts in February of this year. Now I have not been working this model full time but I certainly have put a decent amount of time in its advancement. Below is the latest depiction of its progress. As shown all sails are up and either tethered or awaiting to be secured. You will notice that the shrouds and stays, for the most part, are temporarily secured with miniature alligator clips. The reason for this is that I am unsure at this point if I should crimp the Du Bro fittings at the deck or wait until I deliver the model (recall I have to step the masts for delivery). Note that the wishbone is finally in place. Also note there is a temporary "spreader at the mast tops to maintain the mast vertical alignment in light of the temporary shroud and stay situation. The down haul rigging for the wishbone is not in place yet but will be as soon as I complete some deck bitts to tether all "floating lines.

 

As I progress I am reminded of a song lyric that goes "the ocean is  a desert with its life underground". I offer that as I under estimated the task of converting this to a static model. Most of the operating rigging for this model is below deck. As an RC model most top side rigging is tied off close to its need or fed down below through small tubing cleverly disguised in deck appointments and ultimately secured to pulleys, cleats and the like. In addition, on modern sailing craft, there are few traditional cleats. Most are cam cleats which are strategically placed on cap rails, outcroppings of the hull or some other means. There is neither the opportunity to do so here or are there parts that I could use that I know of. Hence I must compromise, much to my dismay.

 

To move this model to completion, I have yet to trim out the deck furniture with glass simulation (smoked polycarbonate), and add skylights, grab rails and air vents. I have to add the stanchions/railings and aforementioned bitts. I also have to model the life boat which was missing from the parts I received when I took this on. There a few deck fixtures I have to address such as the anchor (which was to be glued to the outside of the port side of the hull) and the anchor winch which has to be fabricated. Might I say that the anchor placement authenticity is troubling me.

 

I will leave it there.

 

Joe

[Thistle17]

As they say the devil is in the details. With my limited experience with machining metal and other materials on a lathe or mill I was stumped as to how to machine the plexi-glass (1/16") to fit the brass portholes. Since there are 10 instances I was not about to hand cut them out and file them to fit. It occurred to me that the methodology shown in the attached photo might work.

 

On my Unimat I attached a 3/4" plywood secondary face plate to the Unimat face plate. To this I attached small squares of the smoked plexi-glass. Using my cutoff/parting tool that I honed to a very sharp cutting edge I slowly turned the plexi-glass to the proper diameter. It took 2 attempts to get the almost correct diameter. On my first pass the "glass" grabbed near the release point. Prior to the second pass I trued the plywood secondary face plate. So doing solved the grabbing problem. I did find that the plexi-glass melted a bit no matter how slowly I fed the cutter. Some finish filing addressed the rough edge and fit.

 

I was tempted to stack a few plexi-glass plates together to speed up the process but decided I was pushing my luck. Only 7 more to go!

 

Joe

 

 

[Thistle17]

Detail continues to be added to the model. All portholes, with glass, have been installed. Ship's wheel and vents also have been added. The last remaining element for the aft cabin is to fabricate and install the grab rails. The first segment of stanchions has also been installed but not completed. I tried to fabricate the entire top grab rail in one piece but was unable to install it to my satisfaction.The stanchion post holes were drilled undersized so that the threaded base of the stanchions would screw into the deck for a snug fit.  Doing so limited my degrees of freedom for fitting the forward transition element of the top rail into the deck (something like the aft termination). I had to cut the top rail off mid way into the top hole of the forward stanchion and will solder the mating (cut off) piece into the stanchion to achieve the end point.

 

I discovered a new tool (to me) that has helped cut the brass rails. Previously I was using a typical side cutter to cut the thin brass rod. It leaves an irregular end that is splayed a bit making it difficult to pass the wire through the stanchion holes. I ran across a costume jewelry cutter that has a 'chisel'  cutter on both inside and outside edges of the cutter (unlike my side cutters). It produces a much cleaner cut off and easily passes through the stanchion holes.

Joe

[Thistle17]

After nearly 1 1/2 years of time I can finally see an end point. Not that I have been constantly working on this for that period of time, mind you, but it does take effort to carve out time and then have the focus and what I call the head set to get things done. I am sure others have the same problem.

 

The first photo shows the "very close to finished" main cabin. Smoked grey plexi-glass has been installed in the larger windows, the grab rails were installed after fabrication on my vertical mill and the running light holders have been installed. The lanterns for these did not come with lens so the remaining task is to fabricate them. I have some plexi-glass rod that I am likely to turn down and cut to solve the problem. Oh yes they have to be painted (green and red). Even the seemingly simple tasks get involved. Hmmmm.

 

I think I stated earlier that there were no logical running rigging terminations other than on the main and fore masts cleats. That only provided 4 points of tethering. So I borrowed from another model of mine the notion of using bitts to tie off the remaining rigging. Note that all rigging is not terminated correctly nor is there any coiled lines attached. There is a reason.

 

I meet with the owner this coming week and we will ultimately decide on the method of transportation to its final destination. There are 2 possibilities; (1) step the masts and re-rig after delivery (that will require about 2 days of work) or (2) bite the bullet and get a suitable van to transport it fully rigged. I will tidy up the deck a bit and see what comes of the discussion.

 

The second photo is meant to show the final result of the stanchion terminations. I had related that since the stanchions were screwed into the deck and aligned that feeding the brass railing wire through them and then terminating them into the deck was just not going to happen without some unpleasant results. So, as shown the upper railing were cut so that 1/2 of the upper stanchion hole was occupied by it. The other half of the hole was filled by a separate piece of bent brass rail that was terminated in the deck. I did not solder any of the junctions, rather I used thin CA applied with a micro glue applicator. It was surprisingly effective and neater than what I could have done with a soldering iron.

 

Joe

Edited May 26, 2018 by Thistle17

[druxey]

Just catching up with you on this build, Joe. Very nice and clean work. Yoru client had better appreciate it!

[Thistle17]

Thanks David I really appreciate your feedback. This project has not been without its problems and redo's. At first I was going to use the materials supplied but as the model grew on me I just couldn't use the cheap die cut kit parts. And as time went on and I got to know the client I had to deliver something worthy in honor of her late husband.

 

Joe

[Thistle17]

In preparing the lanterns for the main cabin I realized I had placed the reflectors backwards i.e. pointing the open area to the stern. These were corrected before adding the lanterns.

 

I experimented with painted wood lenses for the lanterns today. In the background you will see the stern lantern with a chock of mahogany semi carved and fitted in the lens area. It was convincing enough for me to abandon turning down the acrylic rod I originally intended to use.The wood infill was carved and sanded down and painted with Floquil colors and then coated with glaze.

 

I am now headed to the wood working shop to make a model stand and restart the display table. The model is quite heavy with the 45 pound ballast so the stand has to be substantial but not too over powering. I have made templates for the uprights and will cut out and assemble a full size model and try it out. I haven't been in the basement for some time and it is especially hard when the weather is so nice outside.

 

Joe

Edited May 31, 2018 by Thistle17

[CDW]

Does that paint defect correspond to an area where a spot filler putty was used underneath?

It's a beautiful model. Hope you get this all sorted out.

[Thistle17]

CDW I am at a loss to what you were referring to. Are you referring to the dust on the roof of the main cabin or do you see something I have missed.  I would not be surprised as I have been looking at thus model way too long.

Joe

[Seventynet]

Beautiful model and exceptional work Joe. It is going to be hard to part with this. I am sure the client must be happy!

 

regards,

ian 

[CDW]

2 hours ago, Thistle17 said:

CDW I am at a loss to what you were referring to. Are you referring to the dust on the roof of the main cabin or do you see something I have missed.  I would not be surprised as I have been looking at thus model way too long.

Joe

Sorry...I thought I was on the last page, but now realize the pictures I was looking at when making that comment happened much earlier in your thread. The comments were out of context with the current situation.

My compliment still stands...beautiful model!

[Thistle17]

I finally met with the client today. It is the first time she has seen it. Modestly I say she loved it! That made my day!

 

We decided it is prudent to step the masts and reassemble it at its new home about 35 miles south of Rochester. While that will require about a 2 day effort at the site, it is the safe way to its new home. All running and standing rigging will be identified and its termination points will be identified as well.

 

I am now working on a stand for the model and it is being done in mahogany trim and a maple platform. With the trim it will mimic the deck treatment and should not be a detraction.

 

I have pulled out the lumber for the table and that will be started and hopefully finished not too long after the stand. Since the environment where the model is going is rustic (yet nicely done) I am using quarter sawn Douglas Fir for the table. The face grain is beautiful but the side grain is a bit distracting so the legs have to be made as 4 separate wedges glued together. The rest of the table will be straight forward apron and top construction.

 

As a final touch a plaque will be made for the model and named by the owner. Then I will have my first build declared a finished product!

Joe

Edited November 5, 2018 by Thistle17

[Thistle17]

I just completed what I believe will be the stand for the model. As I am anxious to work the table itself I have to get past this element hastily  to deliver the model soon. Nothing is glued up yet and the assembly parts need final sanding. As I stood back and evaluated the stand I did realize one element I may have to revisit. Although the environment where this unit will live is a controlled environment temperature and humidity swings can't be guaranteed. I might say the same for the model. The stand uprights are about 6" wide and I think over time they may blow out the delicate trim around them. I hate making service calls! Hmm!

Joe

Edited July 1, 2018 by Thistle17

[Thistle17]

Hard to believe it is now August and I have yet to deliver the model. That is the bad news but there is some good news. The table is done and is scheduled to be delivered this week. The table is 5 feet long and 2 feet wide and will fit the model nicely. The model will be named "Herself" which has been the request of the owner so the plaque will be made up this week at a local trophy shop. "Herself" has been de-masted and all rigging is tagged for hopefully easy re-rigging. The table and sails will travel separate from the boat as my vehicle just isn't big enough for all. I have also developed a build log in note book form for the owner in the event future work is needed. Materials (wood, adhesives, paint etc.) has been documented.

 

The model does look a bit anemic at this point as you will observe. Apart from function sails do make a difference!

Edited August 12, 2018 by Thistle17

[druxey]

Lovely work, Joe. Have a safe trip transporting her (or should that be 'herself'?) to her new berth.

[mtaylor]

Have save trips, Joe.  I hope all goes smoothly.

[Thistle17]

Here it is August 22 and it is finally going to happen i.e. I will deliver the table and the sails tomorrow.

 

Last week there were torrential downpours in the Finger Lakes area of NY state that made the dirt road ( better described as a cow path) up the hillside improbable. Nearly 70 homes were destroyed or heavily damaged one lake over from Canandiagua Lake nearby. Cars, some homes and propane tanks were washed into Seneca Lake. As you may know these lakes were carved out by the last glacial period and for the most part are surrounded by high hills making runoff a major problem when such an event occurs.

 

In the mean time I have assembled the new model stand and completed some last minute touch ups to the model. I hope to deliver that over the next 2 weeks.

[Thistle17]

After nearly 1 year and 9 months "Herself" is awaiting departure for its new home. The new stand has been assembled and varnished. A brass identity plate was crafted at a local trophy shop. The deck furniture has been packed up and tools are ready to go.

 

I prepared a build "brief" as well. I was unable to access this build log  to export text but I was able to export some of the key photos and added abbreviated text which speaks generally to the build. I also included materials used and parts purchased for future reference.

 

As I had indicated the table and sails were delivered the prior week  and await the model delivery and re-rigging. I have given the owner dates into October that work for me. So now we wait.

 

In the mean time it is back to Cheerful!

 

Joe

Edited August 31, 2018 by Thistle17
Grammer corrections

[Thistle17]

Tuesday 9/11, not a day to remember the delivery of "Herself" aka Atlantis to its new home south of Naples NY. It took nearly 6 hours to re-rig the model on site even with all the prior preparation and use of previously mentioned fittings from Du Bro. I had only moderately taken up the shroud and stay tension in the early rigging cycle so when at the new site it became somewhat of a problem to do so and get the masts aligned correctly. There is a clever adjustment in the mast tops which enables final shroud adjustment so that brought it all into alignment . Running rigging re-installment and cleanup accounted for the balance of time spent.

 

This model build/conversion has occupied much of my attention for 20 months. The owner is delighted with the model and expressed her appreciation for its completion as it has a lot to do with memories of her late husband. That in itself was a reward for me.

 

So here is a final picture of it in place and the lovely owners home. This was more than a model build for me it was an opportunity to meet a new friend.

[Thistle17]

Well I said I was finished, but not quite as I forgot to add the foremast flag. Of course it has to be the Irish flag as she was re-christened 'Herself". I found a nice, slightly fluttering, Irish flag that I was able to reduce and flip about the flag pole and fold over. It is quite acceptable but now I am having to find a suitable paper (weight) to copy it on that will pass through the printer.

Joe

Edited December 15, 2018 by Thistle17

[John Dora]

Interesting read thank you. I have just acquired a part built Atlantis with the six Plans but no instructions. Keen to find out if anyone has a set they could sell, copy or scan for me?

[Thistle17]

John I returned the instructions to the client. They were of some help but mostly for the parts identity. I may be able to get you some copy of the English instructions if she has not placed them at their retreat home. PM me with an address (email or otherwise) and I will try and get them.

Joe

[Thistle17]

One never knows when you take on a project for someone else how it will be received and what will come from the interplay along the way with the client. I must say in this case the  outcome has been beyond any thing I would have imagined. My wife and I have become quite friendly with the client. I doubt that is the rule in such undertakings. It has been delightful knowing the person who is one of those rare people that each time you meet it is a joy. How good is that! Just had to say it.

Joe

[androot]

On 6/22/2017 at 7:33 PM, Patrick Matthews said:

Sorry to come to this party late!

But a couple links:

Taylor Sparks' build of Atlantis: http://sparksstudios.com/boatyard/atlantis.htm  and some others too.

My build of the Robbe Valdivia (with many similar construction features): https://matthewsmodelmarine.wordpress.com/writings/robbes-valdivia-rc-schooner/

 

Hopefully you have the complete Robbe instruction set? Used to be available online... I have an e-copy for Valdivia, maybe Taylor has Atlantis.

 

The hull should be vac-formed ABS (not injection molded styrene).

Valdivia's decking is real teak, with some mahogany trim. The teak planks are a bit overscale in the grain department, but are soft enough to bend sideways. 

Gluing with CA is the plan, but have plenty of CA "kicker" on hand, as the CA is stubborn about setting on the porous wood.

Not sure what was specified for Atlantis, but on Valdivia there were white plastic strips to use as caulking, and instructions on proper joggling and plank-end staggering.

A scraper was the best way to smooth out planks and caulking; avoid sanding, as even light sanding can soften the plastic and drive its dust into the wood grain.

 

BTW, I waxed my wood deck, never had a problem after sailing. Real boats get wet, no? 

 

Pat M

 

Hello, Patrick

I'm new here and the way I found you is my hunt for some info on Valdivia. I'm restoring this beautiful vessel and I was hoping you can help me a bit.

Would you mind?

[Patrick Matthews]

Sorry I missed your post! Email or PM will get my attention faster. Let me know if help is still needed.