Thistle17 Posted June 20, 2017 Share #1 Posted June 20, 2017 With the imminent departure of the USS Langley model from the Military History Society museum, where we hold our meetings, a huge display area will be wanting. The director of the Society, a Viet Nam Special Forces veteran, has longed for a model of the first generation of the River Patrol Boats introduced to combat coastal and river combatants some 60 years ago. The scale chosen allows the outfitting of the model with some pretty amazing components. The model will be a waterline model of mixed materials built to as much accuracy as possible given the "plans" available to us and the many on line pictures and videos thus far discovered. These vessels were the first builds for the "brown water Navy" in 1965 by United Boat Builders of Bellingham Washington. This company was well into the construction of a number of fiberglass hull pleasure and work boats at the time and was awarded a contract to build 120 of the Mark 1's. It is believed the hull is a direct takeoff of their 32 foot Sports Sedan as the lines and forward deck area appear to be almost identical. The company was later renamed as Uniflite Corporation and appears to have built a number of the follow on PBR Mark 2's as well as other naval support craft. Almost to a boat these vessels were left in Viet Nam but some did find their way to the US and have become either individual or club restoration projects that are fully operational today! The mission of these vessels was to provide patrol duty to deny Viet Cong and North Vietnamese operations along the coast and inland water ways of the South. These vessels were typically operated by a crew of 4 and patrolled with another PBR. Often the conditions of sea to shore interdiction dictated that helicopter gun ships were called in to assist the PBRs. We have included the following photo and specification of the PBR Mark 1 as reference. As we learn more of these vessels we will provide further background. Craft Stats Featured: MK1 PBR Type: Patrol Boat, River Length: 31 feet Width: 10 feet 7 inches Weight: 8 tons (loaded) Draft: 2.5 feet Speed: 30 mph Range: 574 km (355 miles) Armament: 1 twin M2HB .50 Cal turret (forward) 1 single M2HB .50 Cal (aft) 1-2 M60 .30 Cal (side mounted) 1 40mm MK19 Grenade Launcher (1968 and later) Location: Vietnam Experience Exhibit Source: This patrol boat is on loan from Naval History and Heritage Command. Canute, mtaylor, popeye the sailor and 6 others 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega1234 Posted June 21, 2017 Share #2 Posted June 21, 2017 Hi Thistle17 I'm definitely in! This looks like it's going to a really different and unusual subject matter to model. I'm kinda struck by the colour of the hull above the waterline...it reminds me of green floating algae! Is that just a coincidence, or was it chosen to blend in with the river water colour? Just curious. Cheers Patrick Elijah, Jack12477, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote MY SCRATCH BUILT MODELS ARE: Splendid Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28576-splendid-by-omega1234-scale-1500-mega-yacht/ Majestic Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/28483-mega-yacht-majestic-by-omega1234-miniature/ Sapphire Mega yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/21088-sapphire-by-omega1234-1388-scale-mega-yacht-66m-8-inch-hull-length/?tab=comments#comment-639898 Genesis - Supersports Mega Yacht https://modelshipworld.com/topic/18168-genesis-by-omega1234-1300-49m-mega-yacht-8-inches-long-finished/?tab=comments#comment-559026http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/14141-shadow-by-omega1234-scale-1300-luxury-60m-mega-yacht-8-inches-long/ SHADOW Luxury Motor Yacht http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/11384-majellan-by-omega1234-luxury-37-metre-motor-yacht-miniature-7-inches-approx/ Majellan Luxury Motor Yacht http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9261Rainbow-j-class-racing-yacht/?p=273543 Rainbow J Class Racing Yacht Mystic Classic Motor Cruiser Symphony Ingomar Schooner: Scratch build Dorade Schooner: <p> Lennox Restoration Warship http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9577-pandora-cutaway-dockyard-style-miniature/?hl=pandora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack12477 Posted June 21, 2017 Share #3 Posted June 21, 2017 I'm in also. Canute, Elijah, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Jack "No one is as smart as all of us" - Is ón cheann a thagann an cheird The craft comes from the head --------------------------------------------- Current build: US Constellation Non-ship builds: USCG UH-65A Dolphin M16 Multi-gun motor carriage diorama M4A3 Sherman Tanks dioramas 1936-1939 Mercedes Benz 540K 1934 Rolls-Royce Phantom II JSDF Light Armor Vehicle Figures: The Last Bridge: Raider Reaper Edge of Universe: Ianis The Last Bridge: Vadim with cart Completed build log(s): 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne, Willie L Bennett 1888 50 ft Gaff-rigged Ice Yacht Scratch Build The Sullivans (DD 537) Liberty Ship SS John W Brown USS England (DE 635), Artesania Latina Titanic Lifeboat Gallery: Swift , Armed Virginia Sloop, Santisima Trinidad Captain's Launch , 18th Century Longboat , Marie Jeanne Other: Rhinebeck Aerodrome Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share #4 Posted June 21, 2017 Patrick it is an odd color indeed and as of this time we do not know. I have contacted Patriot's Point ,Charleston South Carolina's and I will try to remember to ask. Omega1234, Jack12477, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtvd19 Posted June 21, 2017 Share #5 Posted June 21, 2017 It appears to be a much brighter green than I have seen used on thes boats. Here are two, much weathered, that I know have not been repainted since coming back stateside. Kurt Jack12477, hexnut, Jorge Diaz O and 8 others 11 Quote Kurt Van Dahm Director NAUTICAL RESEARCH GUILD www.thenrg.org SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS CLUBS Nautical Research & Model Ship Society of Chicago Midwest Model Shipwrights North Shore Deadeyes The Society of Model Shipwrights Butch O'Hare - IPMS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted June 21, 2017 Thanks all for the great photos Kurt and Jud and the directives. Jud it is an honor to communicate with you as one who was there! Yes I recognize the prior photo is a Mark 2, I am learning fast. I assume the transom overhang on the Mark 2s took the place of the "trim board" on the Mark 1s. Stern photos of the Mark 1 are quite revealing as our drawing graphics does not show that much detail. Certainly "miles to go before we sleep". Joe Omega1234, Jack12477, jud and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted June 22, 2017 Share #7 Posted June 22, 2017 Joe, I'm in, too. While I wasn't "in country" back then(flew out of Thailand), I did have friends and family down there in IV Corps. Will follow along with interest. John Allen, Omega1234, jud and 2 others 5 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted June 22, 2017 Ken it adds another dimension to this project when I hear of folk involved in this or any other conflict for that matter. I must admit I never served, as I was in ASW engineering when this conflict arose. Hence I was never drafted. I would further relate I have great reverence for veterans of this or any other campaign! I was a babe in arms during WWII so when I began reading about those that served I tend to get pretty emotional. In Ian Tolls, trilogy, Pacific Crucible and The Concurring Tide, (one more volume to come) I pause when reading his account of Navy pilots flying off carriers with only enough fuel for a one way trip. Who were these folk!!!!!!!!! Joe coxswain, Omega1234, Canute and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted June 22, 2017 Share #9 Posted June 22, 2017 They were the heroes of "The Greatest Generation". We should all thank God or whatever Supreme Being you pray to for the likes of these men. I grew up listening to the stories Dad and his friends told of their service in every theater of WW II. And I was fortunate to be able to serve with some heroes while in Viet Nam. PeteB, mischief, Omega1234 and 4 others 7 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigersteve Posted June 22, 2017 Share #10 Posted June 22, 2017 Interesting! Steve mtaylor, Jack12477, Omega1234 and 1 other 4 Quote Current: Mayflower- Model Shipways Completed: Lowell Grand Banks Dory- Model Shipways English Pinnace- Model Shipways 18th Century Longboat- Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jud Posted June 23, 2017 Share #11 Posted June 23, 2017 http://www.navyhistory.org/2012/01/brown-water-navy-in-vietnam/ Might take a look at the 30 minute film River Patrol within the above address. Jack12477, Canute, John Allen and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted June 24, 2017 Share #12 Posted June 24, 2017 Jud's photos bring back some memories although by the time I got to 'Nam, I'm not sure version they were using (1970). We always looked for them when over rivers or off shore and if we saw them engaged, we'd offer air support. They usually declined. They weren't often engaged as by that time, the VC had probably learned not to mess with them. River bad-asses they were and got lots of respect. coxswain, Jack12477, Canute and 2 others 5 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted June 25, 2017 Share #13 Posted June 25, 2017 That explains why we were turned then.... 11 minutes ago, jud said: MARK; We started seeing the PBR MK 2s in mid 68 Hal 3, Sea Wolfs provided most air support, we all worked together which smoothed tings a bit. the following was the body of a 4 ship award that highlights what we spent our time doing on the rivers. That would explain why we were turned down more often than not. You guys had your own air cover. Omega1234, Jack12477, jud and 1 other 4 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Murphy Posted June 25, 2017 Share #14 Posted June 25, 2017 I remember these Boats from my DD during my our time in the Delta area. We would have the boats come along side when we were doing Gun-Fire support. Would be nice to see a good model of this boat. Tim jud, mtaylor, Omega1234 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share #15 Posted June 25, 2017 I am so taken by the responses I am getting from all of you. You bring life and breath to this endeavor. I certainly hope we can live up to expectations and we do you all proud. Keep your experiences and memories coming it speaks and means so much to us. Joe Jack12477, mtaylor, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Matthews Posted June 25, 2017 Share #16 Posted June 25, 2017 Dave Hampton in Indianapolis showed a nice 1:6 example (IMEX based) at the Manitowoc show a couple years back. He has some reference and build threads on RCG: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1749558-PBR-Photos-up-close https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1768099-Converting-1-6-scale-PBR-from-gas-to-electric https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2071875-1-6-PBR-Part-2-before-painting-begins Omega1234, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote Pat M. Matthews Model Marine Model FUNCTION as well as FORM. Get your boats wet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share #17 Posted June 26, 2017 When i said keep the information coming I had no idea all this was out there. Thank you all so much for your reference and real life information. Joe jud, Omega1234, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim O'Connell Posted June 27, 2017 Share #18 Posted June 27, 2017 As a retired Naval Officer who worked in the ship design business, I was able to track down the division of the Naval Sea Systems Command that is responsible for small combatants and boats. The Combatants and Boat division (NAVSEA 05D) did the design of the PBR 31, in house (Navy), and they have complete sets of of both the Navy's contract drawings and as well as the builder's detailed drawings. My contact has initiated a "Request for Approval to Release" drawings to the general public for a number of drawings that he thinks will be of use to us. This is a necessary procedure to ensure that there is no classified or proprietary information on the drawings that would preclude their release. This process might take a couple of weeks. When approval is received I will be in contact with the division's librarian to arrange to get copies sent to us (Model Shipwright Guild of Western New York). Omega1234, jud, mtaylor and 7 others 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share #19 Posted June 28, 2017 I have been sitting on this news from Jim for a few days now. I felt it wasn't mine to relate. Our original drawings were from Maryland and Silver (I think I have the source right) and they appear to be concept drawings. When looking at the photos folks have submitted we began to realize we needed more help. This opens up a new vista for us to replicate this model for the museum. I am sure many of you would share in our excitement and gratitude to Jim for his dogged pursuit of authenticity. Jim is a recent new member of our group and his contributions are already felt. Thank you Jim! Joe Canute, mtaylor, Omega1234 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Matthews Posted June 28, 2017 Share #20 Posted June 28, 2017 That's fantastic, Jim & Joe! I hope that the material can be made available to others, either through yourselves, or at least via links to the appropriate government office. But I wonder how that would work... doesn't such material only go to NARA, from where one can eventually get copies? Canute, Omega1234 and mtaylor 3 Quote Pat M. Matthews Model Marine Model FUNCTION as well as FORM. Get your boats wet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share #21 Posted June 28, 2017 Standby Pat and as soon as we understand the process and route to document capture I believe Jim can relate that. Jim has a storied background in naval construction and was able to connect into resources not readily available to all. It was all done by the book, but it never hurts to have some "good old America know who" as well. coxswain, Omega1234, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbelwood Posted June 28, 2017 Share #22 Posted June 28, 2017 Didn't notice this link above. Found this through Ships In Scale magazine. John Elwood https://www.pinterest.com/adriansands/pbr/?lp=true jud, Canute, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share #23 Posted June 28, 2017 Mind boggling! Thank you John! Canute, Omega1234 and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share #24 Posted July 2, 2017 As you may have picked up "humanizing" this project means so much to me. I just learned yesterday from a family member that my recently departed brother in-law and childhood buddy hurt his back for a life time of pain and limitation in Viet Nam. For you see he was a MASH unit surgeon assigned to one of the Special Forces encampments. His brother related that in pulling up a wounded solider from one of the water craft into a helicopter he over extended himself and ended up hurt for life. He was just out of school, in residency when he was pulled into service. I am told he saved many lives and limb. His name was Jim. What are the chances it may have been a PBR? Tigersteve, jud, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share #25 Posted July 16, 2017 Jud just this past Friday I was on the phone asking for an update on the Navy drawings. Not surprisingly the answer, as you guessed, was it will take time to get the drawings released to us. We are hopeful that this happens before the summer is over but we are on the "wag end of this puppy". Standby. In regard to your latest post it must have been just crazy nuts there! The guys were just amazing in getting the job done! Joe mtaylor, jud and Canute 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share #26 Posted August 2, 2017 (edited) An inquiry for the drawing request was made within the past few day's to our Navy contact. Hopefully we will hear sooner than later. Joe Update as of 8/12/17: The request for drawings was finally signed off and I am to understand that the request has gone to the David Taylor Model Basin (old name) for fulfillment. Edited August 12, 2017 by Thistle17 jud, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkershner Posted August 30, 2017 Share #27 Posted August 30, 2017 The Naval Museum at Bremerton Washington has a special display currently devoted to small costal patrol craft. A friend of mine is the author of the book this display is based on. My Friend currently owns an 83 ft Coast Guard Cutter launched in the 1940s and 3 PBRs. If I can help you with any details let me know. jud, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18 On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, Its a sailor's Life for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkershner Posted September 5, 2017 Share #28 Posted September 5, 2017 I have found a mark 1 for sale in the WA area. the price depends on if you want the engine running. capnharv2, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18 On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, Its a sailor's Life for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share #29 Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) I haven't visited here lately as I had no new info until this afternoon. The release has been approved but the path to get them to send the drawings is a bit circuitous. I am working with the department that prints the drawings and I have to go through a few steps to get them. Maybe more on that later. fnkershner", sorry I do not know your name, I have read your posts and will get back to you when we receive the drawings. Many thanks for the offer. Joe Edited October 29, 2017 by Thistle17 mtaylor, Canute, Omega1234 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle17 Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share #30 Posted October 29, 2017 This is an update as of 10/29/17. I received another call last week confirming that 3 of the 4 drawings will be released to us. I was not told which one was not released but I speculate it has something to do with the armament. In this day and age it is small wonder that it could be as I suspect. The drawings will be released to us as soon as the office that controls this type of transaction gets instruction on how to bill us. Is it any wonder that nothing in the US Government moves along with any reasonable pace? Joe Canute, Omega1234, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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