HMS Agamemnon by Henke - Caldercraft - 1:64

[SaskieinSoCal]

Hello Henrik, Great work so far. You have been helping me a great deal over the past few weeks, whether you know it or not. I've now caught up with you and we appear to be almost at exactly the same stage in construction. I've just begun the 2nd planking myself.

 

I look forward to continue watching your progress and learning.

 

Regards,

Trent

[Henke]

First of all thanks for all likes. Started second planking this weekend.

I use the method of planking from midship and outwards toward the bow and stern trying to be 2-3 rows of planks ahead at midship. By doing so I get a better feeling for the need for tapering towards bow and stern. All the work of getting av smooth surface from first planking is now paying dividend 🙂. Most the second planks are cut in 12 cm lengths which are glued with wood glue with two or three blobs of CA-glue. The only problem so far is a small tendency (very small) with a dimple just ahead of the first lower gun port.

 

Regards

Henrik

[SaskieinSoCal]

Looks good Henrik. I like the shorter planking, I should have done that on retrospect.

 

Can I ask how your are leaving the recommended 1mm border around the lower ports? I ran the planks over the openings and then cut to the inside dimensions and finally tried to cut in the 1mm by sight. Doesn't seem very accurate or neat though. 

 

Trent

[Henke]

Hi Trent,

I did same as you. I glued the main wale and cut out the affected gun port openings with a new and sharp blade. The result was ok. I have considered pre-cutting on the port side but I do not think the accuracy will be better. An off-set of two or three tenth of a mm will be seen on a 1 mm rim anyhow. You will be there with the scalpel anyhow risking damaging the lining of the gun ports ☹️. A steady hand and very sharp blade will do it 🙂.

 

The idea of cutting 12 cm planks was something that that was suggested to by ETNZ a couple of months ago. Thanks for the tip ETNZ.

 

Regards

Henrik

[Henke]

Hello my friends,

Started second planking four weeks ago and have now finished starboard side. It is the most comprehensive second planking I ever have done before but I did it. I have done some sanding today but I have decided to leave the final touches to when port side is done. I had some problems with a couple of gun ports but on the other side I am confident that port side will be much better as the builder now has more experience 🙂. Most of the planks are fixed with a combination of CA and wood resin glue. I have a feeling that wood glue is more reliable but CA has its advantages when planks are to be set in curved positions.

 

Looking at my pictures below make me realize that flaws which are barely visible to my eyes when I work on Aggy becomes very prominent with the Iphone camera. Is there a flaw filter I can use before publishing🙂? This makes me realize that when some of you, dear fellow builders, publish close up pictures without any apparent gaps, bumps and cracks, there are some very skilled builders at MSW. I lift my hat!

 

Regards and stay safe

Henrik

[James H]

You're going a lovely job on a beautiful ship. Aggy is one of my favourites. 

[Nirvana]

Henrik, 

It's kind of funny, my sons' name Henrik and I his cousins are calling him Henke, even though that isn't his true first name.

Your "Aggy" is coming together nicely.

 

[Rob S]

She's looking good Henrik; very nice work!  Great comment on how she looks with the naked eye vs. phone cameras.... I wince every time I look at my Vic because it looks like I have a lot more filling/sanding to do on the hull!  

[Henke]

Two months after I started second planking, port side is now also finished. The appearance of the planking on port side looks slightly better than on the starboard side. You gain experience as you plank on. No sanding done yet. I finished the day by tidying up the work bench. What has happened with the lining of the forth lower gun port from aft? It is not red. The answer is that I slipped with the scalpel and oups the lining disapeared into the hull. I had to prepare a new one and carefully insert it and glue it in place. I have not had time to paint it yet.

 

Aggy has gained weight. Each walnut strip probably weighs 10-20 g I guess. I have used up 90 out of 120. That is 900-1800 g plus glue. I must say the quality of the walnut strips has been very good. Thumbs up for Caldercraft/Jotika!

 

Kind regards Henrik

 

 

 

[Axel Viðar Hilmarsson]

1 hour ago, Henke said:

Two months after I started second planking, port side is now also finished. The appearance of the planking on port side looks slightly better than on the starboard side. You gain experience as you plank on. No sanding done yet. I finished the day by tidying up the work bench. What has happened with the lining of the forth lower gun port from aft? It is not red. The answer is that I slipped with the scalpel and oups the lining disapeared into the hull. I had to prepare a new one and carefully insert it and glue it in place. I have not had time to paint it yet.

 

Aggy has gained weight. Each walnut strip probably weighs 10-20 g I guess. I have used up 90 out of 120. That is 900-1800 g plus glue. I must say the quality of the walnut strips has been very good. Thumbs up for Caldercraft/Jotika!

 

Kind regards Henrik

 

Looks great!  I have been watching from the side line - I will hopefully start the second planking soon (it's been so many years since I finished the first planking (about 13 years!).  I have been working on putting up some dedicated work space for the build.  And putting up "the" ship yard.  Will hopefully become active, and provide photos of the current status and the future progress.  It's nice to have someone right in front  ... leading the way. 

 

P.s. I notice that you have planked completely one side before planking the other (now I have never done any ship model building) but isn't one to plank few planks (3-4) on one side and do the same on the other - or is that not so?  It would be so much easier to do it this way - if that is okay, could anyone provide an insight on this?

 

P.s. If one is going to have the ship rest (at the end) on embedded metal "stud" foundation - at what stage of the build is that to be accomplished?  And can anyone point out a place where such "stud" foundation can be bought?  /Any site with instruction, showing the work involved?/

 

Best Regards,

Axel

[Nirvana]

Axel,

Planking both side at the same time.

Yes, it's highly recommended this due to get planks uniformed, but also to avoid any possibility to warp with bulkheads.

However, if you are confident enough like Henrik it shouldn't be any problem.

 

As of stand for the final ship, there's a company in England, Cornwallmodelboats.com that carries what you are looking for. 

 

Henke, your Agamemnon is turning into a real ship. And yes they will get heavy. Make sure you did add support inside on the false keel for the stand.

[Henke]

Axel, first planking has been done in parallel on both sides but second planking one side at the time. When first planking is done, the Aggy hull is very rigid. No risk for warping during second planking. The hull is perfectly straight. I have checked this afternoon.

 

When you do the the first planking planks are fixed directly to the bulkheads and the the bending of the first planking planks may create a bending or torque moment on the false keel and hence warp but when second planking is done the hull is inherently much more rigid but the fact that the strips are much shorter (I typically used 12 cm strips), when glued in place (with glue all along the plank, not just at fixing points at the bulkheads) one at a time, the adjacent already fixed strip also creates a counter force preventing bending.

 

Mobbsie did a nice stand for his Agamemnon which I think I will copy. The pictures below are from Mobbsies excellent MSW build log.

 

   

 

 

Here's the finished base with a coat of Rosewood stain

   

[Sjors]

Hello Henrik,

 

I was following you from the beginning and you are doing a fine job.

I enjoy every minute when i build her so i’m sure that you will do the same.

 

Sjors

[Henke]

First of all thanks for all likes and friendly comments and in to particular to Sjors who's Agamemnon build log a couple of years ago has been a great inspiration to me both in technique, but also Sjors' attitude to the hobby and the MSW community. 

 

I have now done the main and upper wales on starboard side. I could not resist giving the wales a of splash of black just to give Aggy a bit of colour. I also managed to tip the can of black colour and make the work bench very messy. After some nasty words not worthy to be reproduced at MSW it is all cleaned up now. The way the wales are related to the gun ports of the lower gun deck makes an optical illusion of mouth corners down. Please say it is an optical illusion 🙂?

 

Regards Henrik

[Sjors]

So far i can see is it an optical illusion.
It is difficult to focus the eyes.

But everything will come together When you are further.

 

Sjors

[Henke]

Have been working on the port side wales the last couple of days. When you sit, or my case most of the time stand because I have back problem sitting down for too long, working for hours on your ship thoughts start flow freely. This one is more etymology than model building but since our mission is to "Advance Ship Modeling Through Research” I have to ask.

 

Wale in Swedish is "berghult" where berg means rock and hult means wood or timber. Timber which protects from rocks. It sounds sensible. Hult is probably a very old word (medieval or older) since it nowadays is only found in names of locations. Hult probably comes from the German word holz. Now to my question. What is the term for "wale" in other languages and what is the etymology of the word "wale"?

 

Best regards Henrik

[Edwardkenway]

Your question had me searching and in old English it's walu and means Stripe or weal,  so by that definition it is a raised strip which is exactly what it is on a ship. wale also means a ridge on a textured woven fabric such as corduroy.

[Sjors]

Wale in Dutch is berghout.

Berg = mountain en hout =timber.

 

 

 

Sjors

 

[Henke]

First thanks to Edwardkenway och Sjors for their contribution to the etymology of the wale in English and Dutch. In English it is called what it looks like "a strip" on the hull and in Dutch (and Swedish) it called what it is there for to do (protect the hull from abrasive wear from a rock or something else). It is basically the same word in Dutch and Swedish (berghout and berghult).

 

Now to another question. I am starting to plan the coppering. I know there are modelers who do not like the Caldercraft copper plates for different reasons but I am not a picky builder so I will use them anyhow. This morning I read through Mobbsie's excellent Agamemnon build log (only the section about coppering 🙂) and learned about gore lines and other aspects of coppering. I also noted that Mobbsie wrote after he had finished the coppering that "I have learned one lesson though, when I next plate a ship I will be overlapping slightly, Caldercraft plates have rounded corners and as you can imagine these leave an unsightly gap. "

 

I went to the garage and opened one of the copperplate bags and yes, they have slightly rounded corners. I started arranging three copper plates in a brick pattern as instructions say. My question is:

• Should not the plates overlap over the first and last row of rivets? Have a look at the pictures below!

Copper plates not overlapping and as result rivets "jumping around" and a tiny but visible hole in the corner.

 

 

Overlapping the first and last vertical row of rivets of the two lower plates  and as result rivets in straight lines both vertically and horizontally and no visible corner hole. The overlap is about 1 mm the plate is 0.1 mm thick.

 

Personally I think the latter overlapping pattern, as Mobbsie suggested, looks better. What do you think? Instructions do not say anything about overlapping, only "Start coppering the hull from the keel upwards working from stern to bow."

 

Best regards Henrik

 

[BenD]

Overlapping might be the way to go.  I didn't with my Caldercraft plates and the gaps got filled with copper polish.  The polish I used turned slightly green.  No cloth seemed to get it out.

[Wahka_est]

Maybe to sand them slightly to square?

Or maybe thin copper foil under so it looks like copper.

 

[Sjors]

Henke,

 

You have to do what you like.

You are the captain 🙂

That  overlapping looks great.

I didn’t do it but don’t ask me why.

Another thing maybe.... paint the hull first with copper paint.

Then put the copperplate As in the first picture.

Choices enough.

Now i’m going further with my little vacation in Germany 👋

 

Sjors

 

[Henke]

Thanks BenD, Wahka_est and Sjors for comments and suggestions. Overlap it will be. I asked the Admiral. She said overlap definitely looked better. Captain does what the Admiral tells him 🙂! Started yesterday and did about 20 plates. It looks good. Will post pictures later./Henrik  

[Ooglee]

Here are a couple of pictures of a period ship. It shows the copper overlapped. At full size its probably easier to do. 

[stuglo]

On 5/10/2020 at 9:13 PM, Henke said:

First of all thanks for all likes. Started second planking this weekend.

I use the method of planking from midship and outwards toward the bow and stern trying to be 2-3 rows of planks ahead at midship. By doing so I get a better feeling for the need for tapering towards bow and stern. All the work of getting av smooth surface from first planking is now paying dividend 🙂. Most the second planks are cut in 12 cm lengths which are glued with wood glue with two or three blobs of CA-glue. The only problem so far is a small tendency (very small) with a dimple just ahead of the first lower gun port.

 

Regards

Henrik

Never tried this method of planking several rows ahead at midships. Looks good. I use it when copper plating and never thought to use it for planking. Interested if others use it.

[Henke]

Have done a bit of coppering over the weekend. Coppering is new for me. I have no previous experience so progress is slow. As I have understood copper tiles have been laid out differently over time and in different countries. I have not found any good reference yet as to how it was done in Britain by the end of the 18th century. I will therefore use my artistic freedom since I am the captain (as Sjors said). What I am looking for are tiles running toward bow and stern at an angle of 20-30 degrees to the waterline and reasonably horizontal tiles mid ships all the way to the water line with smooth transitions. To get this I have started drawing some gore lines where one row of copper tiles changes direction not running parallel to the row below in order to better follow the shape of the hull. I will try to explain my idea in a later post but since I am in a bit of hurry just now I leave that out for today.

 

Kind regards

 

Henrik

[stuglo]

If you have not done so already, see Longridge "The anatomy of Nelson's ships". This is a "must have" book.

[Axel Viðar Hilmarsson]

On 8/10/2020 at 4:16 AM, Henke said:

Have done a bit of coppering over the weekend. Coppering is new for me. I have no previous experience so progress is slow. As I have understood copper tiles have been laid out differently over time and in different countries. I have not found any good reference yet as to how it was done in Britain by the end of the 18th century. I will therefore use my artistic freedom since I am the captain (as Sjors said). What I am looking for are tiles running toward bow and stern at an angle of 20-30 degrees to the waterline and reasonably horizontal tiles mid ships all the way to the water line with smooth transitions. To get this I have started drawing some gore lines where one row of copper tiles changes direction not running parallel to the row below in order to better follow the shape of the hull. I will try to explain my idea in a later post but since I am in a bit of hurry just now I leave that out for today.

 

Kind regards

 

Henrik

Hi Henrik - I'm still watching your progress.  The restart of my build has not started "full blast" yet, but I will.  There are some dilemma that I'm dealing with regarding painting and other similar issues.  I bought all paint required when buying the model, 15 years ago, and it is all enamel paint tins.  I think I will stick to those, even though I know about the disadvantages (drying time (24 hours for over-paint), smell, cleaning etc.) - what I like about the paint is the finish, and from various pictures I have seen some paint finishes are not to my liking.  Let's talk about what I was going to talk about the sheating of the model - quickly on the internet I found what you require regarding the copper plates. "The introduction and use of copper sheating - a history" by Mark Staniforth.  I got the document but I don't think I'm allowed to share it - but you can easily find it /if not contact me/.  He states what was the method used by the Royal Navy " ... This system however only applied to British merchant vessels, the Royal Navy used a different method where the horizontal joints faced upwards.  This was the same method adopted for use by the French and is illustrated in Fig 2." (see enclosed).  From what I see this confirms the process you are using.  In this article there are also other interesting information about the "shape" of the sheating and how the last row was done "Three methods were used to finish off the coppering pattern about 1 foot above the waterline.  One method was to have a row of copper plates which ran parallel to the waterline which overlapped the ends of the curved rows of copper plates.  The alternative methods were to replace the row of copper plates with a wooden batten 9-12" (23-30 cm) wide and a 1 1/2" (4 cm) thick or a roll of canvas nailed onto the hull".  I think it is of interest for you to read this through.  Best Regards from the rock in the North-Atlantic ocean, Axel

[Henke]

Time for a weekly update. First of all thanks for likes and supportive comments. Thanks to Stuglo for the tips about Longridge "The anatomy of Nelson's ships". I will order the book as soon as possible. Thanks also to Axel for the information about "The introduction and use of copper sheathing - a history" by Mark Staniforth. I will check that out as well. Copper sheathing is going well (I think). So far I have made two gore lines at stern and one at the bow. The bow now needs a gore line to straighten out the last rows of sheathing but that's for another day. For the moment I feel exhausted or "knackered" as they said in Cumbria (Northern England) when I lived there twenty years ago.

 

 

Regards

Henrik

[Bossman]

Henke, I know nothing of coppering a ships bottom but is looks fantastic to me. Nice work!