HMS HOOD by Salty Dog - Trumpeter - 1/200 - PLASTIC - w/Pontos PE

[Salty Dog]

Hi everyone,

Not a good night! Lots of fidgeting and reworking. Pontos supplied PE for the window frames shown here:

I don't just like to put that up there without removing the plastic and making a "room", so I removed the entire area.  When I went to do the same with the rear windows, the window "frames" pretty much got destroyed.  No way to file all those little squares and make them look even. So I got rid of the frames and made my own with some plastic strips.  Here's the result:

Not great, but a hell of a lot better than leaving them closed and looking like...plastic. 

The next parts also required lots of surgery:

And here's the stuff painted without all the pretty stuff yet.  That's tomorrow.

Hope you like!

Ed

 

 

Edited June 11, 2019 by Salty Dog

[CDW]

What paint are you using for your black parts? Looks great. I like those frames you made.

[Salty Dog]

4 hours ago, CDW said:

What paint are you using for your black parts? Looks great. I like those frames you made.

Tamiya semi-gloss black. X18. 50/50 with alcohol. I like Model Master too, but I premix the Tamiya into small "dropper" bottles, and when I need a little, I just squeeze a tiny bit into the airbrush cup. When I'm done, I just flush it with alcohol and it's good to go. I used to hate airbrushing due to the constant cleaning, taking it apart, using tools and stuff to totally clean it. With the Tamiya, it's like new after every quick flush.

Thanks about the frames.  I very rarely do anything like that. But after attempting to file the "windows" out, the frames looked mangled. Not so bad now.

[CDW]

Yep, Tamiya is great, use it all the time myself as well. If you don't mind a little longer drying time and want a smoother finish such as in a gloss finish, reduce Tamiya acrylics with Mr Color Leveling Reducer. Works wonders. But for my day-to-day painting which most often are flats, I use alcohol to reduce as well. The only down side to Tamiya acrylics are their lower color selection. I don't mind mixing their paints to get the colors I need, but I need to make a laminated card of some kind to write down the formulas.

[Salty Dog]

42 minutes ago, CDW said:

Yep, Tamiya is great, use it all the time myself as well. If you don't mind a little longer drying time and want a smoother finish such as in a gloss finish, reduce Tamiya acrylics with Mr Color Leveling Reducer. Works wonders. But for my day-to-day painting which most often are flats, I use alcohol to reduce as well. The only down side to Tamiya acrylics are their lower color selection. I don't mind mixing their paints to get the colors I need, but I need to make a laminated card of some kind to write down the formulas.

I agree. I wish they had more colors. Another thing that I've done, just to show how much a really gaf about accuracy, if I'm painting something big, like these huge 1/200 hulls, the airbrush doesn't cut it.  And the amount of paint required is huge.  I go to Home Depot and get a color close to what I want in a rattle can, and all it takes is one.  Look at the first picture on this blog of the hull. All done with that paint. I have a self filled with rattle cans that "come close".  Good enough for me.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Salty Dog

[CDW]

23 minutes ago, Salty Dog said:

I agree. I wish they had more colors. Another thing that I've done, just to show how much a really gaf about accuracy, if I'm painting something big, like these huge 1/200 hulls, the airbrush doesn't cut it.  And the amount of paint required is huge.  I go to Home Depot and get a color close to what I want in a rattle can, and all it takes is one.  Look at the first picture on this blog of the hull. All done with that paint. I have a self filled with rattle cans that "come close".  Good enough for me.

NAPA Genuine Auto Parts stores that have a paint department can mix and fill any color you want to choose from (their color chip book) into a spray paint can. The cost is reasonable as well. Sometimes when you're trying to match a color, take a sample with you and give them a try. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by CDW
Forgot to add NAPA

[Tigerdvr]

I'm going to bight on a stupid question, what type/kind of alcohol are you thinning with, thanks

 

Harley 

[Salty Dog]

4 minutes ago, tigerdvr said:

I'm going to bight on a stupid question, what type/kind of alcohol are you thinning with, thanks

 

Harley 

Sorry Harley, isopropyl. 93%.  NOT rubbing.

[Salty Dog]

Hi again,

Very frustrating night. If you have never worked with PE, you must prepare for some very annoying and unavoidable events. If you have, you'll know what I'm talking about.

PE is extremely fragile.  9 out of 10 parts must be folded, at least once. If you are not extremely careful and fold it the wrong way, chances are very good that when you correct it, the bend is going to break. It almost always does. Even if you barely fold it. Be prepared to do some repairing.  Here's an example:

The white plastic pieces are for reinforcing. You are expected to glue that extremely thin metal down. There is hardly any surface contact, so I add small pieces just to give it more contact.

Also, be prepared for parts not fitting all the way. I don't know if it's the PE or the actual model, but often enough, you WILL have to do some modifications in order for the parts to fit.

Unfortunately, such as with this piece, it's not possible. If you tweak one area, you'll have to tweak another, and another, and it just becomes a mess.  This part was so complicated in its assembly, that there were several areas that did not fit precisely.  Like this:

By the way, sometimes you'll see some awful gluing or painting.  These areas are impossible to see once the model is finished....most of the time haha. I just hate wasting time knowing that something will be hidden for good once it's done.  I used to like building model airplanes. You would put together half the fuselage, detail it to hell, with radios and wires, and the seats and controls, and paint it pretty, and then....promptly slap on the second half of the fuselage and COMPLETELY hid all the work you just did! I continued building them, but I learned not to waste my time on the guts.

Anyway, here are 2 more pics of the progress:

Edited June 12, 2019 by Salty Dog

[CDW]

You have a lot of patience. Keep up the great work, it's paying off.

[Papa]

Beautiful photo etched work. When I tried PE on a plastic ship model I made a bloody mess of it and threw the kit away.

what is the secret?

Edited June 12, 2019 by ragove
Typo

[Papa]

Maybe I need to study some tutorials 😬

Edited June 12, 2019 by ragove

[popeye the sailor]

hello Ed........just reviewed the super job your doing here    I've heard of the concept your building her in........basically,  it highlights the added detail and allows the viewer to see a larger scope.  I have a set of 1:350 PE for the hood.......I've been having fun matching up the different parts your working with    truly great job.......gonna be a monster when it begins to come together!  taking a seat  

[Salty Dog]

7 hours ago, CDW said:

You have a lot of patience. Keep up the great work, it's paying off.

Thank you sir, I appreciate that!

[Salty Dog]

7 hours ago, ragove said:

Beautiful photo etched work. When I tried PE on a plastic ship model I made a bloody mess of it and threw the kit away.

what is the secret?

Thanks!  Lots and lots of patience. It doesn't help that the manufacturers supply such crappy instructions!  Half the time, you're left to figure stuff out on your own.  When you're done building the kit, there are TONS of parts left over, because no mention of them was made. For the amount of money that one pays for these things, you'd figure they would give you lots of written and photographic instructions.  At the very least, lots of illustrations and diagrams.  As it is, I NEVER use the paper instructions they give, you.  I either download the PDF or convert them to PDF and use my computer screen in front of my work area as a magnifying glass.

Also, you really need some good tools. Most of all, some good tweezers. Some good bending pliers. No need to go buying some of the expensive stuff such as this:

But then there are tools that you just simply need. Rolling the PE is truly a nightmare without the right stuff.  I found this last night and I HAVE to buy it:

No matter how carefully you try to "roll" PE, without something like this, it comes out like crap!  I just wish it wasn't so expensive, at almost $70 bucks!  If I had a milling machine and some aluminum lying around, I'd make my own. 

I sincerely thank you all for the encouragement and kind words. 

Ed

[Salty Dog]

7 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

hello Ed........just reviewed the super job your doing here    I've heard of the concept your building her in........basically,  it highlights the added detail and allows the viewer to see a larger scope.  I have a set of 1:350 PE for the hood.......I've been having fun matching up the different parts your working with    truly great job.......gonna be a monster when it begins to come together!  taking a seat  

Thank you!  I have no idea what I'm going to do with it when I'm done! Since I just finished the Mikasa, I'm very familiar with the effort it took to make a display for it, and the cost, and the Mikasa isn't nearly as huge as this kit is.  So I really don't know what's going to happen! Right off the bat, who's going to help me lift the glass to place it over the kit?!! I wish I could sell these guys, but not many people are interested in a "built" model.

Working with 1:350 is a whole other thing.  Try 1/700 with PE!  I have a few. Total madness.

Ed

[CDW]

1 hour ago, Salty Dog said:

As it is, I NEVER use the paper instructions they give, you.  I either download the PDF or convert them to PDF and use my computer screen in front of my work area as a magnifying glass.

If there ever was a QFT, it's this one. With Pontos sets, it is absolutely essential to have those plan PDF photos in front of you and magnified to see what the heck is going on. As for any kind of 'order of assembly', you just have to figure it out on your own. Can't believe how many times I've folded a piece in the wrong direction and broke it.

 

As for the expensive rolling tool, try this one. It does the job and is half the price. By the way, this is a great online hobby shop to do business with. Super customer service. https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Tools/SMS00000014/product.php?gclid=Cj0KCQjwxYLoBRCxARIsAEf16-u1-zyc7z1wkju3Tud3wSOYsVARTJsbluvBKoaQB6slCqk0I-_HLnMaAvJdEALw_wcB

[Salty Dog]

2 minutes ago, CDW said:

If there ever was a QFT, it's this one. With Pontos sets, it is absolutely essential to have those plan PDF photos in front of you and magnified to see what the heck is going on. As for any kind of 'order of assembly', you just have to figure it out on your own. Can't believe how many times I've folded a piece in the wrong direction and broke it.

 

As for the expensive rolling tool, try this one. It does the job and is half the price. By the way, this is a great online hobby shop to do business with. Super customer service. https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Tools/SMS00000014/product.php?gclid=Cj0KCQjwxYLoBRCxARIsAEf16-u1-zyc7z1wkju3Tud3wSOYsVARTJsbluvBKoaQB6slCqk0I-_HLnMaAvJdEALw_wcB

Funny you post that other tool!  I was just in the garage, trying to make my own.  I have some boxwood which is pretty hard. I got it nice and flat and then proceeded to TRY to make some groves using this:

Got nothing but junk! No matter what bit I used, that stand is wiggly as hell. No precision at all.

If I had a router and some small round bits, that might do it, but I think the one you suggest is the right way to go. It doesn't have to be some fancy "deluxe" version.  With the amount of pressure that it takes to bend and roll PE (next to nothing), this will do.  Ordering it. Thanks!

 

 

[CDW]

You probably know this already, but for the benefit of those reading who have not done a lot of photo etch work, first anneal the brass to be rolled by heating it over a lit candle, then allow it to cool slowly by air. Now it will be soft and malleable easily holding any shape you put to it and not 'springing' back. If after achieving your desired shape you wish to harden the piece, heat it again over a candle then quickly immerse it in water. It will again have it's hardness. Annealing makes rolling photo etch so much easier. Night and day difference. Try it on some scrap first to get the feel for it. it's really easy to do.

[CDW]

Oh, I should mention...annealing will cause your brass to lose it's shine, so maybe that's something to consider.

[Salty Dog]

I love to solve problems.  Love to play Macgyver. My daughter gets a kick out of it when I'm working on something and I figure out tricks to get us out of a mess or to fix something. This PE rolling thing has been bugging me since last night.  Even the cheaper model $35, seems like so much for such limited use. So I went to the hardware store and got an idea. You can always cut some brass or copper tubing in half the long way, to form a channel, and then use a brass tube or dowel the size of the inner diameter of the channel to bend the PE. Even just to get the start of the shape is good enough for me. I probably have the materials in my stash!

[Salty Dog]

1 hour ago, CDW said:

You probably know this already, but for the benefit of those reading who have not done a lot of photo etch work, first anneal the brass to be rolled by heating it over a lit candle, then allow it to cool slowly by air. Now it will be soft and malleable easily holding any shape you put to it and not 'springing' back. If after achieving your desired shape you wish to harden the piece, heat it again over a candle then quickly immerse it in water. It will again have it's hardness. Annealing makes rolling photo etch so much easier. Night and day difference. Try it on some scrap first to get the feel for it. it's really easy to do.

I did lots of annealing in my days, but only with glass. I used to "make" laser tubes, that required some minor glass blowing and joining, and then annealing. Ahhh memories!

[Salty Dog]

Update. I'm almost done with this assembly:

 

Tomorrow are the funnels:

I played around with wrapping a funnel in the PE, and even though I wrapped it tightly around, the PE bounced back without even the slightest curve! You can usually just tack down one side of the PE and then work your way as a cylinder.  Not this time.  The stuff is thick and rigid. Going to have to figure out how to roll it, or get some killer glue to hold it. Doesn't look fun.

[pontiachedmark]

Gidday Salty Dog.

 I am enjoying your build immensely.

Maintain this standard and everything will be fine.

Wishing you all the best,

Mark.

[Canute]

Ed and others, check out UMM-USA. Their prices are good and the quality of tools very good. Here is the same rolling tool: http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/index.php?cPath=21_225

 

I like your approach for this build. Shows off you work with PE.

[J11]

Admiration for all the PE work also, my attempt was once with 1/700 scale and will never do it again. Myself and PE don't mix. 

 

[mtdoramike]

The model is absolutely stunning and the cross stitching is awesome as well. There's nothing like keeping your hands busy especially if you can turn out stuff like this.

[cog]

I've got the "rolling" tool, and it makes a world of difference. Not cheap, but worth the cost.

 

Tamiya has two solutions to dilute you should use the lacquer thinner even for their acrylic, as Tamiya's acrylic paints aren't real acrylics. I do have to add that alcohol evaporates quicker so it's up to you. I like to try different paints and thinners and mix up brands.

 

Love the JPS look, although, I do miss that high gloss of the black. The silk sheen does have a nice touch to it too

 

If you are looking for a more stable, and versatile drill press for dremel like tools, this one could be of interest to you

Website: http://vanda-layindustries.com/

 

Cheers

[Salty Dog]

6 hours ago, Jonathan11 said:

Admiration for all the PE work also, my attempt was once with 1/700 scale and will never do it again. Myself and PE don't mix. 

 

This is really beautiful!  I have thought about what other colors I would use instead of black for the unpainted brass look, and dark blue and dark red are my next ideas.  I love how that looks and you did a fantastic job!

[Salty Dog]

3 hours ago, mtdoramike said:

The model is absolutely stunning and the cross stitching is awesome as well. There's nothing like keeping your hands busy especially if you can turn out stuff like this.

Thanks Mike (I'm assuming that's your name).

I appreciate every encouraging comment.  I honestly get fueled by it.  When I was at the "other" site and got no reactions, I actually got bored and stopped working on the Mikasa for a long time.  It would have been finished long before if I had the encouragement.

Thank you again.

Ed