Bending African Walnut

[Mark Allen]

I have African walnut 2mm X 6mm strips for the hand rails on an Oc Cre models the San Marcos.  I need to bend the strips for a 90 degree bend.  I tried bending by soaking and then applying heat and using a plank bender, but it will not bend.  Can anyone advise me on how to bend the hardwood strip?

[No Idea]

Which way are you trying to bend the wood??  With the grain or laterally??  I have just bent some boxwood through 90 degrees laterally and it was very time consuming.  The only way I could do it was by soaking the wood for 24 hours and then applying heat with a heat gun as I bent it around a former that I had previously made.  I cannot tell you the amount of wood I wasted working this out so  feel your pain.  Soak for as long as you can so that the wood really absorbs the water and then apply heat as you form the wood.  It will steam as you do it - its very satisfying once you've done it though.

[mtaylor]

African Walnut is one tough wood to bend without splintering.   The big thing is heat and lots of it.  The soaking is just the means to transfer the heat.  You might try putting on a pot of water to boil, insert the wood and then after boiling for a bit, depending on thickness, try bending.  It may take repeated times to do this.

[dvm27]

You can also try laminating thinner strips over a form. Shape a piece for wood to the curve you want (add a little extra curve to allow for spring back). Glue and clamp the 2 or 3 thinner strips together over the form. when dry they will retain the curve.

[Chuck]

I would buy a thicker sheet and just cut the piece out to the exact shape you need.  no bending at all.  But be careful not to break it along the grain.

[Bob Cleek]

On 8/11/2019 at 5:53 AM, Y.T. said:

I believe you mean bending at sharp radius? I made a notch in bending template, soaked strips for 30 min and very slowly bent them with sharp end of plank bender. 

 

 

I'm not sure if you are aware of it or not, but the Aeropiccola plank bender pictured above is missing the spring-loaded roller bracket that mounts in either of the two holes in the iron head as pictured below.. The purpose of the bracket is to slide the strip under the spring-loaded roller "stirrup" so it can be held while the plank is bent to the desired shape. The plank strip can be slid against the edge of the iron while the roller maintains pressure against the iron edge. The bracket is placed in either hole and swung into position along the edge of the iron according to the shape of the bend desired. The use of this "holder" and the "French curve" shape of the iron pretty much eliminates the need for separate shop-made shaping jigs like the one pictured, which is what makes the Aeropiccola plank bender so desirable. (They are no longer in production.) Obviously, if the strip-holding fixture is missing, the shop-made jigs are required, or the tool has to be held in a vise so that both ends of the planking strip can be held, one in each hand, and the strip bent over the iron head in the vise. With the holder, the iron can be held in one hand while the end of the strip can be held in the other and the bend worked to suit using the roller bracket.

 

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  The "French curve" shape of the iron and this holding device is head-and-shoulders above anything sold today for the purpose. I don't know why somebody hasn't started selling them again. I suppose there's some sort of patent on the design, although it's been around for close to fifty years that I know of and has to expire one of these days. Aeropiccola is out of business, I believe, but they do still have a website and facebook page for their fans.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Bob Cleek

[Bob Cleek]

4 hours ago, Y.T. said:

I have this spring loaded fixture but I dismantled it. I tried hard using it but never got any positive results.All this fixture does is holding end of wood strip. One still applies pressure to a strip with their hand. I hold strip down on flat wood board on curvature of bender for radius required. I t appears to be less cumbersome. I have a better control of a process. I normally do not use a curving template I pictured but for a sharp radius bend on hardwood it was required. 

If it works best for you that way, by all means, do it that way. It's a challenge bending walnut in any event. Some woods are suitable for bending and others really aren't.

 

 When I use the spring-loaded strip holder, I progressively work the curve desired into the wood by repeated small bends along the curve desired with the holder holding the strip in various points on the curves on the iron. Sometimes the workpiece doesn't fit under the holder roller because the fixture was designed for the straight, narrow strips of "planking" commonly found in kits in the days before laser-cut kit planking and I'm using it to bend something differently shaped. As you do, I don't use the holder when I find it isn't helpful. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Bob Cleek

[Dziadeczek]

Does it have to be African walnut? How about ordinary American variety? Or South American (a bit darker)?

[Mark Allen]

Thanks everyone for you advice.  To clarify, the wood strip is to be bent so it forms a 90 degree radius for the hand rail.  I have used a softer wood and bent it successfully, but it is a light coloured wood which I was planning to then paint a dark brown.   I had been toying with the idea of soaking the African walnut in very hot water and then trying to bend.  I must admit, I have not seen the Aeropiccola plank bender before.  I just have the one that resembles a pair of scissors; which finally broke the other day.  I will buy some extra strips when I get the chance and perform different techniques as suggest.  I tried to find a video on Youtube, but I couldn't find any on such a hard wood.

 

Thanks again for all your advice.  This is only my fourth ship and I am still learning heaps.

[Mark Allen]

What I neglected to tell everyone is that the radius is a sweeping one of 90 degree and not a sharp one.

[Jaager]

Why not spill and build up from pieces?  Bending thru the thick dimension is fighting against the nature of the wood.

 

Dziadeczek,    I am betting that the wood in question is kit supplied.   African Walnut is probably relatively low cost and

can be advertised a something special by kit mfg.   Black Walnut ( Juglans nigra )  is in a class by itself. I would guess that

although a reasonable cost and available here, it is probably neither in OZ.   Queensland Walnut is native to OZ and may be

superior to the African species - if Mark can mill it.

All Walnuts share a problem for our purposes  - open pore and some have grain that scales poorly.

[mtaylor]

As others have said, just layer and build.

 

BTW,  a low price method for bending with heat is a curling iron.  The come in assorted sizes but I've found I can pretty much get away with the 1".   

[Mark Allen]

Thanks for the replies again.  The African walnut was supplied in the kit.  I have been able to bend some ramin wood, supplied with the kit as the hull planks.  They fit the sweeping 90 degree bend well.  So, I'm tossing up whether to use ramin for all the hand rails and painting them mission brown.

[Dziadeczek]

Mark,

Check out this thread:  

I wholeheartedly recommend this heat/water bending technique, especially the method presented by Mr. G. Kammerlander about 3/4 down that page - a piece of video in German, but the pics speak for themselves.  Long time ago there was an article on this very topic in the "Ships in Scale" magazine, where I discovered his technique, and it still works for me. I am quite convinced that you should be able to bend your piece of walnut 90 degs, as you want it.

 

Recently I managed (with some difficulty and patience, I must admit) to edge-bend a 2 mm thick piece of ebony (for some curved railing) with my electric plank bender (well..., converted soldering iron, but it WORKS just as well)! And we all know how difficult is to bend ebony!

 

[Mark Allen]

Thanks for that Dziadeczek, that video has given me an idea on how to use my homemade plank bender (soldering iron with two sockets on it to dissipate the heat) in a different way that just may do the job.  I will practice on some old hard wood piece I have and let you know how it goes a little later.

[bruce d]

Mark, it is worth looking at posts #5 and 22 in this thread:

 

HTH

Bruce

[Mark Allen]

I used the method in the video Dziadeczek directed me to yesterday and what a success!  I soaked the African walnut for 24 hours and used the bending technique in the video and I couldn't believe how easily it bent.  Thanks again for the post Dziadeczek.

[Mark Allen]

Hi Y.T.  Sorry I've taken so long to get back to you.  My first observation of bending African Walnut was that it had worked.  On closer examination it had not.  It was still fracturing.  I don't know whether I was too impatient in the bending or not.  I used a soldering iron with two sockets from a socket wrench set to dissipate the heat, so the wood wouldn't heat up too much and burn too quickly.  I will experiment with the African Walnut some time in the future.  I have my doubts now as to the video and whether he in fact had success with it.  However, I have been watching John Aliprantis on YouTube as he had built the OcCre Santisima Trinidad.  When he comes to the rubbing strakes he bends Africn Walnut with a soldering iron, but warns it breaks very easily.  But he had done it.  Have a watch.

[mtaylor]

Mark,

Are doing this all in one bend or bend it some, soak, reheat, bend again.  Repeat as needed.   There's some woods that just don't like to bend in one go. Ebony is another.

[Jaager]

If what you have is Lovoa trichilioides  - what the Wood Database lists as African Walnut,  trying to get a serious bend is fighting against the basic structure of the wood.

The grain is likely interlocked.  This offers resistance to the fiber bundles sliding along side each other to produce a staggered formation.  It might be more productive to substitute with a species that allows bending.  Then spend the additional effort find a mixture of wood dyes that color the substitute to match the Walnut that you have used.

[Mark Allen]

Hi Bilge Rat.  I was trying it in one go.  Then I tried to soak it a second time and bend.  I was planning on doing a series of soak and bend.  I too am a bit slow.

 

Hi Jaager.  I did use an easier piece to bend, and that's what is on my model.  But you know... I hate being beaten by a piece of wood... no pun intended either.  So, I will try again some time in the future.

 

Can either of you tell me what a 'gun spile' is?  I have them for the cannon on the deck, but the pictures supplied do not show exactly what they are.  I think they are like chocks for the wheels of aircraft.

[RossR]

I needed to bend some African Walnut and came across this thread.  I just had success bending 2mm x 4mm African Walnut across the 2mm dimension.  I needed a 90 degree bend with about a 2 inch radius.  I was very worried about bending it this much.  I bent it in two steps.  First, after soaking in hot water for 30 minutes, I clamped it to a form with about a 4 inch radius.  The next day I removed it from the form and soaked it again in hot water for 30 minutes.  I was then able to clamp it to the 2 inch radius form without any problems.  I used very hot water and after 20 minutes of soaking and the water cooling, I replaced it with hot water again.  I didn't not use any sort of heat gun or iron.  

 

Hope this helps anyone trying to bend this type of wood.  

[druxey]

Really this specie of wood is for cabinetry rather than model-making. Get a piece of wood that will bend well: pear or holly are good. Stain or paint to taste once formed. 

[allanyed]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:14 PM, RossR said:

  I just had success bending 2mm x 4mm African Walnut across the 2mm dimension. 

 Is this the wood for the planking for a kit model?  Druxey gives excellent examples of wood that are better suited to ship models.

Allan

 

 

[Jaager]

On 8/11/2019 at 2:43 AM, Mark Allen said:

I have African walnut 2mm X 6mm strips for the hand rails on an Oc Cre models the San Marcos. 

The foundational cause lays with OcCre for supplying you with a crap wood species to begin with. 

I would place a serious bet on Walnut being the among most available of the various shades of both wood dyes and wood stains on the market.

The shade is easy to get without having to use a wood species that is open pore and looks fuzzy and is brittle to bote.  What is more inappropriate is that none of the species of wood commonly used to build a ships is anything like Walnut in color.  The same situation occurs with decks.  No wood used for decking is near as white as Holly.  This is not a factor with mass market kits.  They use economy species for hull planking, so no way would they afford the cost of Holly.  (I am addressing the American Ilex opaca - harvested in Winter and immediately kiln dried - great for marquetry -  English Holly Ilex aquafolium is plenty yellow enough to stand for Pine or Oak.)

 

On 11/9/2019 at 4:39 AM, Mark Allen said:

But you know... I hate being beaten by a piece of wood...

I get the humor -but   -   as a way to spend your time -

Wood has no consciousness.  There is nothing to beat - except chemistry/physics/Nature - where,  is most cases - even if you win - you actually lose. 

[RossR]

This material is supplied for the wales only.  There are a total of 8 pcs that are used for the wales.   I am not entirely sure why this material was supplied with the kit for this purpose, especially since it gets painted black, but using the technique mentioned above I was successful in bending the pieces. It is possible that they provided this material because it creates a nice crisp corner when cut compared to the limewood that is provided for many other parts of the ship.  The second plank from the top is cut into segments leaving small gaps in the plank.  I assume these are for oars if needed due lack of wind.   I also needed to add a slight twist near the stern.  I soaked the plank before gluing and had no difficulty adding the twist.   I have one side attached and need to get the other side attached.  The picture below is from the instructions showing the small gaps in the second plank.  

 

I also reached out to Occre, and they said using heat from an iron or low heat from a heat gun is a technique that will also work.  One nice thing about Occre is they are more than willing to provide replacement parts free of charge if you break something.  The only downside is it take about 3 weeks to get them from Spain. 

 

I think I get too impatient when using heat to bend wood, something I need to get better at. I also work at a desk with a Formica top, so I worry about damaging it with heat.  

 

 

 

[RossR]

I didn't find the wood fuzzy at all, and while it might not be AYC or boxwood, I am not sure I would call it crap.  In the end, using the two step method I was successful in bending it as intended.  I will get some pictures of my results posted soon on my build log.  Regarding the economics of the wood chosen by kit manufacturers, I probably would have been priced out of the model ship hobby if AYC, Boxwood or other higher quality woods were used in most kits.  I hope to work with these woods some day, but this is my second build and my skills are still developing.  Something less expensive is appropriate for me right now.  

[Gregory]

1 hour ago, Jaager said:

The foundational cause lays with OcCre for supplying you with a crap wood species to begin with. 

I would venture over 90% of the builds at MSW are are kits and many of them relative beginners, who may not be inclined to go to a lot of additional expense beyond what they paid for a 'crap kit.

 

Fortunately they do get a lot of help, instead a load of crap from someone who seems to offer a lot of advice, but no real help with regard to overcoming a problem with what they have at hand.

[allanyed]

3 hours ago, RossR said:

Something less expensive is appropriate for me right now.  

There are inexpensive alternatives such as basswood or even poplar.

     

[Gregory]

Yes, but if someone wants to use what came in the kit, we should help as best we can without telling them their only option is to buy something else.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Gregory