HMS Naiad 1797 by EdT - FINISHED - 1:60 - 38-gun frigate

[SJSoane]

 

Hi Ed,

 

This is a really dumb question, but I was looking at volume 2 of your book set, and I did not see how you were holding the hull upright on the building table after the rudder was installed. Your distance photos don't show supports at the fore and aft ends, nor supporting chocks underneath. Or did I miss seeing a photo?

 

And since you were regularly turning in upside down, did you have a foolproof way of putting it upright and guaranteeing it was level athwartships, or did you need to re-level every time you flipped it?

 

You continue to be my guide....

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

[EdT]

Actually, Mark, its apretty good question. In looking back through Volume II, Isee I neglected to show any pictures or describe how the model was supported upright after the rudder wasinstalled. I have dug some photos out of the archives showing this. I believe I will handle this an addenda on the V2 topic. I shouldhave it postedlater today.

 

Thanks for he question and for your other comment. I'm very flattered.

 

Ed

[SJSoane]

 

Thanks, Ed, I just saw your posting in the books section. Very clever, very helpful!

 

Mark

[Trussben]

Ed, have you seen this online? Is this your work?

 

It has your name on last PDF! Did you know about your plans being on internet?

 

http://todd.mainecav.org/model/stuff/naiad.pdf

Edited April 28, 2014 by Trussben

[Erebus and Terror]

Oh dear that's not good. I wonder if he even knows that he's posted it online - I can't see a link to it on the rest of the site, or to the "stuff folder" he's placed it in.

[druxey]

Oh, oh. I hope that isn't pirated.

[EdT]

Thanks for noting this, Ben.  I do not think there is anything sinister going on here.  Gerry Todd has been following the series from the beginning, I believe.  These mini versions of the early drawings were posted as both jpg and pdf files in Parts 2 and 3 to show some of the views used in the Cad drafting.  I later removed the pdfs at the request of the site mgt to discourage copying.  These were undoudtedly downloaded before they were removed.  These early versions are unfinished and contain many errors.  It is also likely that I distorted them dimensionally to render them useless except for the purpose of illustrating the drafting approach, but I can't recall.

 

I think we all have to accept that anything we post will be downloaded and could be used for purposes unintended - or just filed away for personal reference.

 

Ed

[Mirabell61]

delightful to watch your build growing Ed,

 

real eyecandy all the way

 

Nils

[Smac]

Ed, I wish to share with you and everybody interested in the building of the Naiad a little jewel, made by a fellow Italian modeler, who specializes in dollhouse equipment. On my request, he has drawn the stove very precisely from different sources and had all parts photo etched. He then assembled the article to check that all parts fitted. They do. It is in the scale of 1:60, the same as that of your model.
Unfortunately, he will keep the finished stove for himself. I hope when the time comes to be able to make a stove as nice as his. It is a very, very tiny little thing! 
Enjoy the pictures. The stove in shown in the fore part of the ship where it will eventually be located.
Regards
Salvatore

[EdT]

Thank you, Salvatore.  That is truly beautiful work.  I'm very envious.  A masterpiece - certainly at 1:60.

 

Ed

[the learner]

Wow!

 

In David White's "The Frigate Diana" there is a detailed drawing of a brody stove. The detail on the pictures above mirror White's drawings with the exception of the condenser details. Fantastic build on the stove.

 

This would be a good item to produce and sell!

 

Guy

[BANYAN]

HI Salvatore, thanks for showing us that little gem - but now you have whetted all our appetites   That is just the scale I am working in.  As Guy has alluded to, is there any chance that these photo etch drawings, or a photo etch kit might be made available by your fellow modelling friend?  If the drawing would be handy to purchase as I have a local photo etch place I can use.

 

regards

 

Pat

Edited July 8, 2014 by BANYAN

[Smac]

Hi Guy and Pat. See below the plate Pierluigi made for me. I suppose he is willing to make and sell it again. I suggest to contact him directly by e-mail (pier@pimini.it) and to have a look at his website (www.pimini.it). I could not believe my eyes the first time I actually saw the stuff he makes.

Regards

Salvatore

[JerryTodd]

I wonder what it would cost at 1:36 scale 

[EdT]

Having done a photo-etch design for the Naiad stove, its clear that PierLuigi's work is in a different league. IfI were toput his stove in a model the forecastle would have to be left off to display it. Beautiful, meticulous design and modeling.

 

Ed

[dgbot]

Quality of that kind is probably an arm and a leg.

David B

[Smac]

Yes David, just about that ...

Salvatore

[the learner]

I do not know what the current price is now but perhaps if we was to get enough orders it might bring those cost down!

Edited June 4, 2015 by the learner

[lagrayjr]

I would like to purchase one. Would it be fourth while to try to put together a combined order from interested people? Laman

[the learner]

Yes, Perhaps

[Taoism]

Hi Ed,

 

I am completely new to the hobby and these forums.  I have been looking to try some smaller ship-in-a-bottle type builds, but your scratch-built model is amazing and something to aspire to eventually.  It took over three years to complete?

 

I have a few questions mainly about a few of the tools used (in particular the power tools).  Your homemade clamps are something I am going to try and make as well. 

 

Before I get to the questions, I did notice that for me, images were not loading in these two posts:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/232-hms-naiad-by-edt-160-frigate-38-1797/page-19#entry69923

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/232-hms-naiad-by-edt-160-frigate-38-1797/page-19#entry69929

 

All your other journal posts in this thread have the images load for me.

 

A general question; images with pins holding items in place... Are you just pushing pins through the wood because you will eventually be putting a "nail" in there of some kind, Or will the holes from the pins go away with finishing work?  Are you pre-drilling the holes for the pins?

 

What tool is being used for the cuts in this photo:

 

 

What type of table saw is being used in this photo:

 

 

I have a Dremel and some larger power tools as my starting power tools for this hobby.  

 

At the start of this build thread you mention using CAD to set up the drawings, etc.  Can you expand on that a bit more?  What CAD program, did you create the CAD drawings yourself based on research of the ship (you mention a ship building record as a resource multiple times in this build log).

 

There are repeated references throughout the build thread about volume 1 and 2 of a build guide for this project. Are they published?  Are there ISBN numbers I can use to look up these books?

 

I'm sure I could come up with a tonne (spelled correctly.. I am Canadian! ) more questions, but these will have to suffice for now.

 

Thanks for the really inspiring thread!

[EdT]

Taoism,

 

Thanks for your interest in the Naiad posts. Its starting to seem like the distant past to me and I am glad to see that the thread can still be found in the long list of build logs on MSW.   I cannot explain why the images in parts 170 and 171 are not loading.  I cannot get them either.  Perhaps the moderators can address this or tell me how I can reload the photos if necessary.

 

The Naiad model is a fully framed structural replica of the original ship – a time consuming project.  Yes, three years was about right. Naiad was my second model.  My first model, Victory, is also covered in an MSW build log.  My current models of the American extreme clipper Young America are also described in two build logs on MSW and are the subject of another how-to-do-it book forthcoming shortly from SeawatchBooks (see below).

 

On to your questions:

 

Very hard woods are used in the model, mainly swiss pear, castelo and European boxwood.  This requires pin holes to be predrilled for a tight or sliding fit as required.  Where these holes would show on the final model, as was the case with most, they were placed where bolts or treenails would eventually be inserted.

 

The tool in the first photo you showed is a Sherline milling machine fitted with a screw slotting saw blade with the spindle rotated to the vertical position.  Sherline makes high quality, small scale machinery.

 

The table saw in the next photo is a Preac 2 ¼” diameter circular saw – my most used power tool for this work.  Sadly this machine is no longer available new, but perhaps may be found on ebay.  There are a variety of similar good quality model saws available, however.

 

The drawings for the Naiad model were based on the original Admiralty plans for the ship and other contemporary data.  Plans for most Royal Navy ships may be obtained from the National Maritime Museum in London.  The Naiad drawings were made using a now extinct version of Visio – a 2D CAD application.  I am now using TurboCad for this work and all of the drawings for the current Young America project were made using TurboCad.

 

I am not sure what the term “building record” refers to.

 

Two books were published describing the Naiad construction in full detail, including all of the drawings patterns and substantial other information – including a thorough discussion of drafting methods and toolmaking.  These books and many other fine books on shipmodeling may be obtained from SeawatchBooks.com.  Here is a link:

 

http://www.seawatchbooks.com/

 

Good luck with your entry into this fascinating craft.

 

Ed

[flying_dutchman2]

Ed;

 

This was an incredible awesome 3 hour read. Wow, learned so much from you and the suggestion by other members that were made.

 

I have been using CAD applications all my life (landscape architecture) so the first few posts about CAD makes a lot of sense to me. I am presently practicing on TurboCAD the Heemskerck from Abel Tasman. Before reading some of your information, I was at a loss in some areas on how to draw the vertical image of the final aft body plan of the hull. So now I know. I may just buy the book so I can see these plans in full size, and read/learn your methods and your jigs so I can improve on my building a model.

 

Several questions.

 

Naiad page 3: Copper bolts. Why? Isn't this too shiny? Aren't bamboo nails used? Was this used in 1797?

 

From the original Admiral draft how do you know how to built the following: the forward magazines, transverse pallet beams, and many other features that are below the main deck? Through research and pictures from similar ships of that era? Or are those drafts included as well, but you did not show this in your build.

 

Clamps:

I researched the Jorgensen clamps and cannot find the mini ones you use. Many sites have the big ones mostly starting at 4". Where did you get yours? Also I like the clamps in a "picture were developed to cope with the problem of very small spaces between", the ones from maple and a cut-off brass screw. I am working on replicating these on a slightly different way.

 

I will probably have more questions later, but for now thank you.

 

Marcus

[EdT]

Hello Marcus.  I am glad the Naiad build still attracts some attention.  It was a challenging and educational project for me from start to finish - including doing the books.  At the risk of pushing book sales, all of the questions you raised - and many others are addressed in the books, but I will try to give you some short answers:

 

Bolts:  I tried to simulate the actual fastenings that were used, based on various sources including contracts for similar RN ships built at the time.  These are available for many ships from NMM.  Treenails (on the model bamboo - on the real ships oak ) were used mainly for planking on these ships.  Structural fastenings were bolts of copper (below water) and iron.  These bolts were more like long nails or in many cases long rivets.  They were driven through undersized holes and often peened over at both ends.  Some of these (in the deadwood for example, might be 15 feet long.  Deck planking was very likely held by iron spikes covered with wood plugs.  Copper bolts on the model are copper wire, untreated.  Iron bolts are also copper wire but blackened using Liver of Sulfur solution - usually after insertion.

 

Details of the magazine came from a number of sources - drafts for overall arrangement and placement, contracts and some secondary sources for details.  The magazine is completely detailed on the model (though unfortunately not visible)  and full details are shown on drawings in the book (Volume II).

 

The miniature screw clamps were homemade.  Details and dimensioned drawings for making the  "Jorgensen" type plus a simpler version as well as other tools are included in the book (Vol I,  Appendix II).

 

Appendix I in Volume I describes how the drawings and patterns were developed in 2D CAD based on Admiralty drafts and scantlings  - using older software before I moved to TurboCad - but descriptions would apply to both - or other programs.

 

Again, thanks for your interest - and questions, of course.

 

Ed

[flying_dutchman2]

Ed,

 

Thanks for he explanations. I will want to learn more about your methods so I need to save some $$ to purchase Vol. 1 & 2 of the Naiad. I am not ready to build a ship lie the Naiad, but I am very interested n learning your building methods.

In the book Young America, you mention examples of your methods of building a ship to refer to the books of the Naiad.

 

Marcus

[druxey]

Marcus: your new avatar is surely of Marcus Piscatorius?

[EdT]

Thank you, Marcus.  I have always thought of the modeling processes as the topic of the first books and Naiad as the vehicle - so I hope you will find the content applicable to other modeling subjects.  That was the intent.  This also holds true for YA, but here the ship as a unique modeling subject is more pronounced and I have developed a more personal attachment to her.  While I mostly succeeded in making Young America a standalone work - not dependent on the Naiad books - this was not always possible due to space limitations and some desire to avoid repetitions.  Who wants top pay for the same process content twice?  The ships are also quite different and so are some of the modeling methods.  Our desire to pack all of the Young America work - which will include rigging - into two volumes, has been and will continue to be a challenge.

 

Thanks for your interest in the books.  I am sure Bob Friedman will readily accommodate you.

 

Ed

[flying_dutchman2]

Druxey;

There is nothing better than raw, young, fresh, caught a few hours ago from the sea herring (Dutch - haring) with a touch of finely cut white onions. Every 2 years when I visit my mother in Amsterdam the first thing I do the next day is go to the local fish shop in her area and have a few of these.

 

Marcus

[flying_dutchman2]

Ed;

When building the Naiad are there any descriptions on how to build the masts, sails and rigging or would this be another volume? Personally, I believe that a sailing ship without masts, sails and rigging is not a Sailing ship. I do like the admiralty models that people built and I see on display in naval museums as well.

 

As you mentioned about the YA, that there will be rigging, will there be sails as well? For me that would be an impressive ship to build and I would purchase that volume.

 

Marcus

[EdT]

Marc,

 

I am afraid that Naiad is an unmasted hull model.  I would not use the term admiralty to describe it because that type is a stylized format with simplified hull framing.  Naiad is intended to replicate the structure of the ship accurately, so it details all the structural members and components based on early documentation like Steel (1805), The Shipbuilders Repository 1788 and actual ships contracts - but sorry, no masts or rigging.  Substantial detailed information is available for rigging of ships of Naiad's era and type.  I would recommend Steel, James Lees and others.  David Antscherl describes his methods very well in Swan, Volume IV.

 

Young America will be rigged, but the current plan is no sails.  However, I am currently planning to include running rigging for all the sails except most studding sail rigging.  I believe most of the gear for those sails was stored and went up when the sails were bent.  My current ringing list for YA includes all the usual, plus fore and aft jib and staysail  running rigging, sail handling lines like buntlines, reef tackle and leech lines, etc.  So of course masts and yards will be included.

 

Ed