HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 by glbarlow - FINISHED - 1:48

[trippwj]

Beautiful work so far on the planking - each of my current bulds has ground to a screeching halt as i continue to struggle getting my 2D mind to grasp 3D bends and curves!

 

I'll be watching to see how you handle some of the curves - and hopefully I can apply the tecchniques to my builds.

[Jim T]

33 minutes ago, Rustyj said:

Looks great Glenn. A coat of poly now is what I normally do. 

I'm wondering if folks ever apply a coat of Sanding Sealer before the first coat of Wipe On Poly?

 

Jim

[glbarlow]

Thanks Rusty!

 

 

The wow factor of a single light coat of wipe on poly (not even dry yet). While it serves to highlight where more sanding is needed (but I knew that) it certainly serves to demonstrate the Alaskan Yellow Cedar is pretty nice stuff.

[Chuck]

It certainly is...that looks very good.   Try and even out the sheer though.  It has some dips and needs to be a nice even curve.  A graceful line before you put the cap rail on.   

[glbarlow]

15 minutes ago, Jim T said:

apply a coat of Sanding Sealer before the first coat of Wipe On Poly

Interesting question Jim.  I don't know a lot about sanding sealer but the big thing about wipe on poly is how it's absorbed into the wood and brings out the color. Again I'm no expert but I think that poly is a form of sealer and putting on actual sealer before would defeat part of the purpose of the poly.  Perhaps the sealer, like gesso, is as a first step to painting?

 

It would be interesting to hear from anyone with more experience with sealer, I haven't used it myself.

[glbarlow]

9 hours ago, Chuck said:

It has some dips and needs to be a nice even curve

Thanks Chuck, I understand and good point.  I haven't touched the sheer yet, I plan to wait until the other side is done so I can even them both up at the same time. I'll run a board along the top with a level to make sure I don't get out of whack on one side. I left the top planks just a tad higher than the bulkhead extensions to make sure I had a little room to work with.

[glbarlow]

40 minutes ago, trippwj said:

see how you handle some of the curves

I know what you mean, planking below the wales is always an adventure curving both in and down or up depending on how you look at it.  As I hope you'll see when I get there Chuck's bending method is even more mind blowing, I'll bend a board upward (in a 2D view) to get it to fit the inward bend of the bow. It doesn't look like it works until you lay the board on and then you go "wow."

[garthog]

Really nice work!  btw, you mentioned gaffer tape so I checked amazon and there are about two million versions ... which one do you use?  and it seems to me that sanding sealer would defeat the enhancement of the wood produced by wipe-on poly.  have you tried the two on scrap wood to see the difference of sanding sealer first, then wipe on poly?

 

warthog

[Blue Ensign]

Looks good to my eye Glenn, Cheerful looks so impressive with those nice woods.

 

I certainly wouldn't use sanding sealer on quality woods like Box and similar.

 

B.E.

[glbarlow]

The port side is now complete.

 

Cutting and measuring these 64 planks (more like 84 including the ones I rejected after cutting them the wrong length or angle) was an exercise in patience and perseverance, but I like how it all turned out. I will make a few adjustments to the sheer once I start the cap rail step and a few minor modifications to some sills after I thin the inner bulwarks, for now though I’m content to move to the next step.

 

 

Which is thinning these outer stern frames. I’m not excited about this step, not that confident with a Dremel, small drum or not. While I can paint a 1/64th rabbet with a 18/0 brush without concern I’m hoping not to gouge one of the inner stern frames in the thinning process. I’m going to have to think about this a bit. I may first try a jeweler’s saw. I do have one unbroken frame on the first now crushed hull so I get one practice run. If anyone has any suggestions or advice on doing this other than don't screw it up, I'd be happy to hear it.

 

I noticed the photos of the SB and port side appear to be a different color - that's purely the affect of my iPhone. They are exactly the same in reality. At some point I need to get my camera gear out and do it justice.

 

I can’t do anything for a few hours while the poly dries - so I’ll just sit and stare at it for now.

 

Oh, I can never have enough ways to sand things. This latest acquisition from here at Amazon are thanks to a recommendation from BobG. Good stuff. 

 

[glbarlow]

1 hour ago, Blue Ensign said:

so impressive with those nice woods

Thanks BE. The Alaskan Yellow Cedar really is nice wood - easy to shape and sands to as smooth as butter. 

 

1 hour ago, garthog said:

you mentioned gaffer tape so I checked amazon and there are about two million versions ... which one do you use?  and it seems to me that sanding sealer would defeat the enhancement of the wood produced by wipe-on poly.

Any gaffer tape will do, I have multiple versions and multiple colors. The distinction of gaffer tape is that it is as strong as duct tape but it leaves no residue when removed - as long as it's not left on for too long.

 

I agree with both you and BE. I think sanding sealer has a different purpose, perhaps as a base for acrylic's. The wipe on poly is itself a sealer and adds a whole different dimension to the yellow cedar, it brings out the grain, provides a beautiful finish and changes the wood from a light yellow to a golden color. The photos, at least my iPhone photos, don't do it justice.

[Chuck]

That looks very good.  It may have taken a while but your care and craftsmanship shows it was worth the effort!!!  You can actually use a very sharp #11 blade to slice most of the stern frames away.  You are talking about the inboard sides of the outer most stern frames?   That is how I did it.  Take little thin slices with each pass.  The cedar is soft and it should take too long.   When you get close to the finished width....switch to some sanding sticks to give it a nice smooth finish.

 

Just be careful......take breaks.  Dont cut yourself or break the center stern frames.....

[glbarlow]

On 6/20/2020 at 11:59 AM, Chuck said:

Dont cut yourself or break the center stern frames....

Thanks Chuck.  Yes the perfectionist in me overcomes my lack of patience.  I don’t mind how long it took.  I think I developed a system on the third to last port 🤣

 

Thanks for the advice on the stern frames. I’m going the #11 blade and a jewelers saw, I’m sure the Dremel would get away from me. 1/16th is really skinny. Thank goodness for sanding sticks. 

[glbarlow]

Well I did it, right at 1/16th with no broken frames and fingers intact. As advertised the Alaskan Yellow Cedar is soft and easy to carve and sand - as wood goes.

 

 

I thought I’d share a little bit about how I did it in the event it might be beneficial to future Cheerful builders. For starters, here are the tools used in this task.

 

 

I’ve never used a jeweler’s saw before, but I will again. I got it here on Amazon with 6 sizes of 144 blades, it worked great. I got it for this specific task because I really didn’t want to try it with a Dremel. In fact I took a shot with the Dremel on my busted hull and demonstrated to myself it wasn’t the way to go for me.

 

I marked a 1/8th line down the outside of the stern frame to allow room for error. While the saw runs straight it is easy enough to turn, too easy in fact. The thing to watch is keeping track of the cut both inside and outside the frame, what looks good on one side may not be on the other due to the angles involved. I reversed the blade in the holder in order to cut inside out at the very base of the frame stopping at the 1/8th mark I’d made. Then when I reached that cut sawing from the top the bulk of the frame just dropped off. It was relatively easy, for me the key was not to saw faster, just be patient and let the blade do the work.

 

With the bulk of the frame now gone I evened up the rough cut to a consistent 1/8th creating the proper alignment for the future inner bulwark planks. Then it was slow and careful application of my Veritas mini-chisel in concert with my trusty #11 blade and sanding sticks to gradually reduce the frame to 1/16th. I did as Chuck suggested and took multiple breaks, along with a few deep breathes here and there. I had two measurement aides, I had earlier added a 1/16th thick brace between the last two bulk head frames as I was planking because it got a little wobbly with such a long space between (and I read ahead in Chuck’s monograph where he adds them for the inner planking), now it became a thickness gauge along with my handy brass 1/16th saw gauge. I don’t recall where I got these (I have multiple sizes) but they often come in handy. So then it was cut, chisel, sand, repeat - maintaining the angle for future planks and keeping track of both inside and outside.

 

Here’s a warning: The sides of the stern (note my exquisite knowledge of nautical terms:-/) had been very sturdy as I planked it, but once the bulk of the outside stern frames are cut away it quickly became fragile. In fact I cracked a plank with a moment of carelessness of too much finger pressure. It was just a very tiny crack on the bottom layer of the wales that will later get covered, but it was a good reminder to be gentle with all the cutting and sanding. Even small as it was I used a razor thin spatula and filled the crack with some Titebond to keep it from becoming a bigger crack.

 

I had dreaded this step for a while, now it’s is done. The jewelers saw, plus the #11 blade, chisel and sanding sticks, is the way to go in my opinion. I might have pulled off the Dremel, but more than likely there’d be a gouge in one of the inner frames. These remain visible when the deck area is done so it’s important they remain pretty.

 

Next planking the stern.

[Chuck]

perfect!!!   Once the stern is framed up and especially the lower counter planked it will be nice and solid.

[glbarlow]

17 minutes ago, Chuck said:

the lower counter planked i

I'm looking forward to this next step, it will be fun to see it completed.

[Rustyj]

Well done Glenn!

[DelF]

Very impressive Glenn. That cedar is beautiful, especially with the wipe on poly. If I hadn't known different I'd have assumed it was boxwood. I'm seriously tempted to add this ship to the dockyard waiting list.

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

25 minutes ago, DelF said:

assumed it was boxwood.

Thanks! 
The Alaskan Yellow Cedar is much more yellow gold than Boxwood. That may not show in the photos. The poly transforms it nicely. 
 

You should definitely put it on your list. It’s beautifully designed and is a real challenge to get each step right. I’m really enjoying it. 

[glbarlow]

2 hours ago, Rustyj said:

Well done

Thanks Rusty. Yours is one of the build logs I frequently “consult” so I se how It’s done. 

[glbarlow]

On 6/16/2020 at 10:15 AM, VTHokiEE said:

is the planking pattern laid out in the plans?

Sorry I missed your question earlier.  
 

Yes the planking pattern is laid out on the plans. I didn’t worry about them for the lower level of the Wales (bottom two rows in photos. 
 

As a related point, I bevel the bottom edge of each plank to help keep them tight. I’m hoping not to be able to see through my ship once it’s done 😕

[glbarlow]

The comments about the use of sanding sealer encouraged me to do a little experiment. So I used the same paint and applied it to a stick of my Alaskan Yellow Cedar. The counter and bulwarks will be painted red and I wanted to see what worked best.

I know it doesn't show well on the photo but there are very definite color differences and texture when applied to the different bases. Here’s what I tried from left to right using four coats of very thin Golden Cadium Red paint.

1. Matte Water Based Poly
2. Golden Open
3. Sanding Sealer
4. Nothing
5. Gesso

So based solely on my subjective view in order worst to best: 5. I quickly ruled out sanding sealer, it closes the grain of the wood and the resulting look is glassy. It also didn’t take the multiple coats very well. 4. No base is fine, but it absorbs so much into the wood the finished look was only ok, It works better if I use thicker paint. 3. The Golden Open product took forever to dry as a base (its more for acrylics on canvas as I read about it). It also had the most negative affect on color making the red almost orange. 2. The gesso was good, but as a base it has to be sanded, way too much work around gun ports for me. It also darken the color more than I liked.

1. My favorite is using what I’ve always used, the water based matte poly (which is not to be confused with wipe on poly, totally different stuff). It dries quickly, seals the wood in a good way and provided the base for the best version of the Cadium Red color.

Again, totally my subjective opinion, but at least I have my answer of what works for me. On a related note, I've always used Admiralty Paints, by far my favorite.  However, it doesn't come in a RED enough Red for Cheerful (Go Red or go home) so I'm using the Golden Cadium Red. I can tell from the photo the colors appear different IRL so not sure it helps much.

[glbarlow]

Every stern on every model I’ve ever done has been an adventure, they rarely come out the way the plans show, I have to improvise and adapt to make them work, and have fun doing it. I expected the challenge of the scratch built Cheerful to be no different - but I was wrong.  This is probably the first stern that came together just the way it’s supposed to. Not that it was easy and I still had a few challenges, but Chuck’s design, for lack of a more elaborate description, - works as planned.

 

But to be fair I haven’t figured out the square tuck yet, 😂

 

Reducing the frames in the last post was hold my breath time but wasn’t that hard with the process I described. Then it’s just a matter of planking up the counter.

 

 

The first plank is a challenge because the counter is curved both in and down. But thanks to my Chuck Passaro plank bending station it’s a problem quickly solved. No way that plank was bending with out some help. The benefit of Chuck’s method is there is no soaking or its potential for warping. Rub a wet finger along the board and the steam travel iron and clamps do the work heating the bent board into shape. If you haven’t tried this method I highly recommend you search out the instructional videos here on MSW and give it a try.

 

I gave a little more information and detail on using this technique in my Lady Nelson log if you’re interested.

 

 

I’m a CA planking guy, no clamps to hold PVA for me. With the bent plank (and the lower side of each beveled for a tighter fit), a little CA, and 30 seconds of finger pressure… plank complete, on to the next. In no time I was up to the transom and doing some sanding.

 

 

Here’s a thing to remember - the inward side of the counter is also a final product, it won't be covered, so be neat with the glue. The reverse side result of the beveling looks like Shiplap and adds a little character. It’s a good time to use some sanding sticks on the counter, much easier to get at it than after transom is on.

 

 

The transom is a little more fun than the counter, having to fit the planks around the stern ports. Since I plan to have these closed I left a little larger rabbit for the port lids to grab onto, I may leave them, or one of them, open - I still have the option later to decide. The third row is fun since it has to be cut to fit over the top fourth of the ports. I elected to use a 7/32nds plank on the top instead of a fourth 3/16ths one. I liked the look better and it gave a little more clearance above the top fo the frames inside.

 

 

Back to the inside of the transom to sand a little to remove any excess glue. Unlike the natural transom outboard, the inside will be painted red eventually so it doesn’t require extensive effort. I’m glad I sanded and shaped up the stern frames before they were installed, I’d hate to be removing laser char at this stage. I have already learned from building the winch my Cadium Red won’t hide laser char. Eventually I’ll be cutting a hole in here for the rudder, which should provide another hold my breath moment.

 

Now to cut some fashion pieces having only a #11 blade, maybe the jewelers saw to do it. Anyone want to hazard a guess how many I’ll do before I get two I can use?

 

On another note, I ordered a Proxxon MF70 micro mill today - I think Cheerful will provide me some opportunities to learn how to use it since I haven’t the slightest clue, though thanks to Delf for giving me some pointers. MSW is certainly a worldwide resource of talented people.

[VTHokiEE]

36 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I have already learned from building the winch my Cadium red won’t hide laser char.

This won’t work for stern frames at this point in a build and I’m not certain if this method is frowned upon but I primed my wooden bits for the winch. 
 

I was staring at the wooden pieces for the winch on my Alert and there was no way to get the laser char off. I painted a layer and I simply wasn’t happy with it (the paint pools around the char). So I decided to lightly prime it with a rattle can. The laser char disappeared and the paint went on beautifully. Maybe I could skip the primer if I used an air brush?

[glbarlow]

11 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

Maybe I could skip the primer if I used an air brush?

The water based poly effectively is my primer, I don’t think it would cover any char though. I’ve only painted cannon and etched parts with my air brush. I wouldn’t be confident using it on the model or wood in general. Not that you can’t...

 

I think it varies by types and color of paint. 

[BobG]

17 hours ago, glbarlow said:

My favorite is using what I’ve always used, the water based matte poly (which is not to be confused with wipe on poly, totally different stuff).

She coming along very nicely, Glenn.

 

I've painted over Satin Wipe-on-Poly successfully. Have you compared the water based matte poly to the Satin WOP? Is there a reason that you prefer the water based poly?

 

16 hours ago, glbarlow said:

The benefit of Chuck’s method is there is no soaking or its potential for warping. Rub a wet finger along the board and the steam travel iron and clamps do the work heating the bent board into shape.

I've had good luck with this method also. My travel iron is an old, non-steam iron. Do you ever apply steam at the same time or do you just wet the plank with your finger?

[DelF]

17 hours ago, glbarlow said:

I ordered a Proxxon MF70 micro mill today

Welcome to the club! Very neat work on the counter, btw.

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

3 hours ago, BobG said:

Have you compared the water based matte poly to the Satin WOP?

Hi Bob,  I have and use both, my Lady Nelson has satin on the exterior and matte on the interior, for no real reason than that’s what I did.  I prefer the matte as a painting base, but I doubt there is any significant difference between the two, I’ve also painted over the satin in the past.  My little experiment did prove, at least to me, that water based poly is my preferred base.

3 hours ago, BobG said:

Do you ever apply steam at the same time

Yes I do also apply steam but have the iron on the lowest heat level for steam. Here again I’d do it without steam but the little travel iron produces it and I figure it can’t hurt.  I let the board sit in the clamps for about a minute after heating and sometimes it takes two heating runs to get the curve I want.

 

I only started this method with my last build, but it makes such a huge difference in my planking I’m only sorry I didn’t find Chuck’s tutorials sooner.

[garthog]

Your photos and explanations are some of the best I’ve seen on MSW - thanks for making the effort - you should consider writing an illustrated book on shipbuilding!  Great photos!

 

garthog

[glbarlow]

Thank you!  I just try to pass on what I’ve learned from so many on this forum and as a small tribute to my friend  Dana that got me started In this hobby years ago 😊