ancre Le Rochefort by No Idea - 1/24th Scale - First POF Build

[No Idea]

4 hours ago, clogger said:

I found it difficult to know which line to follow exactly when cutting out the template for the main plywood piece from the plans owing to the confusion of lines on the plans!

Again your work is truly inspiring!

Hi Clogger I followed line “e” on the plans. The line is only drawn on the starboard side of the plan and is not reflected on the port side. To solve this I ran a centre line down some tracing paper and traced the starboard side. I then flipped the paper over to get the same profile on the port side. 

[No Idea]

On 6/5/2021 at 3:18 PM, PRS said:

Wow that look good. 

 

And such a clean workshop!

Thanks PRS 👍. I have to keep things clean and tidy as I work in our spare room 

[clogger]

Thanks No Idea, it did have me confused for a while.

[dvm27]

Yes, I would leave those frames a bit full until final fairing. One low spot during fairing results in several frames being affected.

[No Idea]

After a few lovely weekends catching up with the family I've at last got around to having a go at the wing transom.  So what did I discover?  Firstly its quite a complicated piece to make and requires a big piece of timber to make it.  Its a shame that about 40% of that piece of wood is turned to sawdust but thats just the way it goes.  It took a lot longer to make than I thought it would due to all of the angles involved.  A few pictures of the process below and for a first attempt I think that it came out ok.

 

 

[mtaylor]

The wing transom looks perfect from here.

[druxey]

Looks A1 to me.

[No Idea]

Mark and druxey thanks very much  - I did accidentally catch one of the corners on the sander and took the tip off of the wing transom but I reckon that it'll be ok.

 

I've made a start on the next 4 transom pieces and so far so good.  These are made from 6.75mm thick wood so they are quite a lot thinner than the wing transom.  I've so far cut them out and shaped them to their outer edges.  I have also made a start on cutting the angled and stepped rebate so that they can lock onto the sternpost knee extension.

 

I think you could leave out the step if you wanted to and no one would be the wiser.  I decided to give it a go and found that it gives an extremely strong joint.  I've not shaped them yet so thats one of my next jobs.

 

Cheers Mark

[clogger]

I suspect this ship will be more precisionally built and engineered than the original!

[No Idea]

6 hours ago, clogger said:

I suspect this ship will be more precisionally built and engineered than the original!

If only it was clogger but we try our best 😄

 

I've now finished milling out the rebates and then did the same on the other side of the transom pieces where the sternson joins onto them.

 

I've also bevelled my first piece which seems to have come out ok.  I found that the bevelling was quite a difficult task to do and took a lot longer than I thought it would.  I'll have a go at the three remaining parts next weekend and I'll see how they go.

 

Mark

[No Idea]

Hi All

 

I got a bit more done this weekend and have now finished shaping the transom pieces.  I think the advice that Adrian Sorolla gives in his excellent book is spot on with these parts.  He recommends just taking your time and getting them right and I agree with this.  I'm hoping that they are as they should be but I guess I'll find out when I make the fashion pieces which is my next task.  They look particularly tricky but I'll give it my best shot.  A few pictures of the progress below

 

Cheers Mark

 

[druxey]

So, you winged your wing transom? No-one will know. The transoms look very nice indeed, although, were it me, I'd leave them a little full for final fairing when all is assembled. Those are very sweet joints. No idea? I don't think so!

[No Idea]

Thanks druxey 👍. Leaving parts fuller is one of those things that I need to get a feel for. I never really expected this ship to turn out perfectly as it’s my first pof build. I’m learning with each piece I make. Loads to learn but I am enjoying the process 😀

[Hubac's Historian]

I agree with Druxey - you sure seem to know what you're doing!  I'm in!

[clogger]

Looks amazing. You know the fit is good when the transom pieces sit happily in position without gluing!

[No Idea]

Hi all - sorry for the lack of updates but I started some decorating at home which has turned into a full blown building job so I'm fitting the ship building in-between.

 

So what have I been doing - well finding more patience than I thought that I would ever have.  

 

I discovered that just because I had made the parts for the transom did not mean that they would all fit perfectly together.  Wow what a challenge this turned into for me!  To get all of the parts to line up so that all of the joints were nice a square and that the shape of the transom was also correct was far more difficult that I thought it would be.  

 

I managed to pretty much ruin the first set of lower transom parts that I made in my efforts to get the fashion pieces to fit correctly.  It then took a week of soaking in IPA to get them unstuck as the joints were tight without the glue.

 

So here is what I learnt - leave the templates on all of the parts after gluing them together so that you have a reference to what you are trying to sand too. Without them I was just sanding blind which just made things worse.  Also leave enough on the parts for the fairing of them - I'm starting to get better at this.

 

Anyway the results are in the pictures below and quite frankly I think that this is about the best I can do at this stage of my ship building experience.  I have also added the small wedges that are required between the wing transom and the fashion pieces.  I hope that it's all ok and if anyone can see something that I need to alter please let me know.  If not the next job is to start installing the frames.  Wow what a few weeks this has been and now I know how Kevin Kenny felt last week!  I have to admit I did enjoy doing it though!!

 

Cheers Mark

 

 

[No Idea]

Hi Everyone

 

I've at last made a start on installing the frames.  I had to make a lot of adjustments to my building frame as I realised that I had adjusted it to follow the line of the whale rather than the line I required.  I just misread the drawing but thats all sorted now.  I've made up lots of chock blocks for between the frames so hopefully it will all go ok.

 

A few pictures below of the first two frames complete with keelson chock with the limber channel and the upper and lower chocks too.  I'm sure that I will need to make some alterations along the way but so far so good.

 

Mark

[Hubac's Historian]

Beautifully done, and well photographed.  This log will be a gem!

[No Idea]

3 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

Beautifully done, and well photographed.  This log will be a gem!

Thanks Hubac's Historian for the kind comment.  I just use my iPhone as I don't actually own a camera.  Hopefully the rest of the frames will locate where they should but based on my experience so far I think I may have a few issues ahead to overcome.

[mtaylor]

4 hours ago, No Idea said:

Thanks Hubac's Historian for the kind comment.  I just use my iPhone as I don't actually own a camera.  Hopefully the rest of the frames will locate where they should but based on my experience so far I think I may have a few issues ahead to overcome.

I agree, looks great.   As for issues.... I have yet to see a build log that didn't run into issues and that they all can be solved.

[No Idea]

Hi Mark and thank you - so far I have found that its my milling that is causing me issues.   The top timbers have not been cut to their final height and the chocks between them seem to fit very nicely at 4.5mm.  Its keeping the frames nice and perpendicular which is a positive sign.  The small lower chocks are slowing me down simply because their width varies due to the rebates that I milled.  

 

I have had to make some very very fine shims to make sure that everything fits together tightly  - I'm talking about 0.01mm shims but I think its worth the effort.  If I had used my Sherline mill that I have now I think that my efforts would have been reduced as I used a Proxxon mill to cut the rebates that I am talking about.  There is no comparison between these machines and I would also say that my abilities have reflected this too.  We all get better as we move along.

 

Thanks again - Mark  

[dvm27]

Wonderful work, Mark! I think most plank on frame builders raise their frames from fore and aft towards the center to help overcome cumulative error. However, your precise notching of the rising wood should prevent this. Really enjoying your build.

[No Idea]

31 minutes ago, dvm27 said:

Wonderful work, Mark! I think most plank on frame builders raise their frames from fore and aft towards the center to help overcome cumulative error. However, your precise notching of the rising wood should prevent this. Really enjoying your build.

Thanks Greg  - I love this forum as it gives me the inspiration to try harder.   I have to be honest -  I just don't know any better which maybe in my favour.  I have been so aware of cumulative error since raising the frames and I think that I have been correcting this starting the process.  I try and rely on the plans - wow this is still my first POF build and I'm learning so much.  However - what a great challenge eh!!!!!!

[dvm27]

Well your first POF model looks a far sight better than mine did! You appear to be a perfectionist and I know how hard it must be for you to leave a little extra but just keep in mind that a part of the building process of the real ships was fairing the hull. One frame slightly out of alignment can affect the symmetry of every adjacent frame. My personal preference has always been to fair the hull, especially the bow and stern, after all the frames are raised. Maybe a slight pre-bevel in the curviest sections but never to spec. Fairing a hull is quite fun (and satisfying) after all the frames are raised and supported by blocking. Just one opinion - others have achieved great results fully pre-beveling the frames but they are far more skilled than I.

[Bitao]

You're doing great! It shows your attention to detail. But, as Greg pointed out, the hull-building components can not be precisely machined to ensure overall reliability. There must be a margin for final overall correction. Because no one can be perfect in the assembly process, a small inclination deviation will produce a huge change in the curve, you can see my failure lesson. . .

[No Idea]

Greg and bitao thanks for the words of advice it really does help me learn.  If I was starting over again I would have certainly left far more on the frames than I did.  That's one for my next build 👍

 

I've got some more frames raised today and it seems to have gone to plan.  I have found though that my frames are not quite matching the guidelines that I made on the building board.  I have been checking the frames for square to the base board and they definitely are. I trust my engineers square far more than I do my marking out.  Its a bit basic they way that I check for square - just a flat piece of timber clamped to the face of the frame; it seems to work.

 

The next forward frames require me to make bespoke chocks off of the rising wood.  As the frames rise up the apron the chocks follow.  I don't think this will be too hard to achieve.  Here's hoping

 

 

[No Idea]

Hi All

 

Thanks for the likes 😀

 

I've got some more work done in between decorating.  I made the rising chocks as per the plan and have now installed the final four forward frames.  I like the way if you look through the frames underneath the way the chocks rise up to meet the stemson.  One is slightly high but its nothing a quick shave with a chisel won't sort out.

 

Frames 1 and 2 have a small 2mm dowel to hold them in place - I didn't have any wood of this diameter so I used a small piece of brass instead.  It all seems to have gone together ok.

 

Here's a few pictures - with and without the holding bands

 

Mark

 

[Mirabell61]

First build POF model.........

 

what an understatement NO IDEA !  , this is a performance that a very skilled builder would privide. love to see more as it comes in

Well done

 

Nils

[No Idea]

47 minutes ago, Mirabell61 said:

First build POF model.........

 

what an understatement NO IDEA !  , this is a performance that a very skilled builder would privide. love to see more as it comes in

Well done

 

Nils

Hi Nils and thanks very much mate 👍  I can't get much more done now until the weekend.  I'll start installing the frames towards the stern next and fingers crossed they fit as well.

[Hubac's Historian]

There are quite a number of MSW builders named Mark, who are doing remarkable things, here:  Mark Taylor, Mark (SJ Soane), Mark Tiedens, and I am also a Marc.  The work you are doing here, Mark, is very inspiring.  I personally have ambitions of eventually building a large and complex fully framed model, like this, someday.  Presently, I haven’t yet done anything like that, but it is comforting to realize what can be achieved by jumping right in there.  I really appreciate your willingness to share the learning process - both for its triumphs and frustrations.

 

You are doing an incredible job!