Electric sanding belt file

[Don Case]

Anyone use one of these? I was thinking it may be handy for fairing the inside of frames. They've always looked like an awkward thing to use to me. They are usually a couple hundred bucks but there is a Wen on Amazon.ca for $66. You usually get what you pay for but in this case the price is so different that you could get 3 for the price of a good one. I have read good reports on other Wen tools.

[vaddoc]

I have a similar tool-very unsuitable for modelling. Very aggressive, very inaccurate, awkward to use. I have not find it useful not even for DIY

My 2 c!

[mtaylor]

I also have one (Proxxon branded) and basically it's useful for only little things off the model while chucked into a vise (they make holder for this).  Too fast on speed even at it's slowest, and there's no super fine paper that I can find.  

 

For inside the hull... there's no substitute for hand sanding and using custom shaped sandpaper holders.   If it's really rough, you can use various sanding tools like that with a very light touch and the slowest speed but it will take some practice.

[Bob Cleek]

3 hours ago, Don Case said:

I have read good reports on other Wen tools.

 

Before I could say, "Don't get me started...."  

 

Wen Tools used to be a mid-range US electric tool manufacturer of fair repute during the last half of the 20th Century . They were perhaps best known for their "second best" or "DIY quality" soldering gun, which competed with Weller's, and their "second best" rotary tool which competed with Dremel's . Wen has always targeted the occasional, non-professional user, rather than the professionals and its greatest selling point has been its lower price. Now the Wen brand has, from all indications, become just another casualty of the power-tool market.

 

Remember reputable brands like "Bell and Howell," (movie cameras,)  "Emerson," (radios and TV's), and just about every tool company you've ever heard of? Times have changed. Today, the brand names themselves have become commodities, monetized for their "customer loyalty" and established good reputation. The business model is 1) buy out a brand name with a good reputation, 2) "value re-engineer" the products by reducing the quality, plastic parts replacing metal where possible, etc., 3) close domestic manufacturing operations and move manufacturing to low-labor-cost Third World factories, 4) slap the reputable label on "generic" offshore products, 5) flood the market with advertising touting the brand name without disclosing the change in ownership and manufacturing origins, and 6) reap the profits for as long as possible until the consumers finally, if ever, figure it out. You still get what you pay for, to a large extent, because the higher priced units will generally have better quality control, warranties, and customer service, although, sometimes you get lucky and find a lower-priced brand of the same unit, built in the same factory in China by the People's Patriotic Power Tool Collective which just happened to be assembled "on a good day." 

 

If you think today's Milwaukee are any different, think again. Milwaukee is Chinese-owned and Chinese-made, one hundred percent. Unfortunately, these new offshore "name brand owners" are very internet savvy. If you go trying to find reviews and comparisons of their products, you'll find multiple websites posing as "neutral reviewers" which, using the identical language, wax eloquent about how great their products are. It's all a big con job. 

 

While Wen tools were once "Made in the USA," Wen is, by all indications, simply selling Wen-branded generic Chinese-made tools these days. Wen never was a top tier tool manufacturer, anyway. It's market niche, even in the 1950's, was the homeowner interested more in price point than quality. 

 

Find the Wen:

 

 

Read the links below to get some idea of how pointless it is for us to even begin to look to a label as any indication of the quality of a tool these days!  With all the internet purchasing, we can't even hold one in our hand before buying it. About the best we can do is to ask the guy who has one, and be careful of doing that if it's just an Amazon review!  

 

https://pressurewashr.com/tool-industry-behemoths/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tool_manufacturers

 

So, sorry for the thread drift, but I couldn't help but rant about the sorry state of tool quality these days. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[Don Case]

2 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

 

Before I could say, "Don't get me started...."  

 

Wen Tools used to be a mid-range US electric tool manufacturer of fair repute during the last half of the 20th Century . They were perhaps best known for their "second best" or "DIY quality" soldering gun, which competed with Weller's, and their "second best" rotary tool which competed with Dremel's . Wen has always targeted the occasional, non-professional user, rather than the professionals and its greatest selling point has been its lower price. Now the Wen brand has, from all indications, become just another casualty of the power-tool market.

 

Remember reputable brands like "Bell and Howell," (movie cameras,)  "Emerson," (radios and TV's), and just about every tool company you've ever heard of? Times have changed. Today, the brand names themselves have become commodities, monetized for their "customer loyalty" and established good reputation. The business model is 1) buy out a brand name with a good reputation, 2) "value re-engineer" the products by reducing the quality, plastic parts replacing metal where possible, etc., 3) close domestic manufacturing operations and move manufacturing to low-labor-cost Third World factories, 4) slap the reputable label on "generic" offshore products, 5) flood the market with advertising touting the brand name without disclosing the change in ownership and manufacturing origins, and 6) reap the profits for as long as possible until the consumers finally, if ever, figure it out. You still get what you pay for, to a large extent, because the higher priced units will generally have better quality control, warranties, and customer service, although, sometimes you get lucky and find a lower-priced brand of the same unit, built in the same factory in China by the People's Patriotic Power Tool Collective which just happened to be assembled "on a good day." 

 

If you think today's Milwaukee or Delta power tools are any different, think again. Milwaukee and Delta are Chinese-owned and Chinese-made, one hundred percent. Unfortunately, these new offshore "name brand owners" are very internet savvy. If you go trying to find reviews and comparisons of their products, you'll find multiple websites posing as "neutral reviewers" which, using the identical language, wax eloquent about how great their products are. It's all a big con job. 

 

While Wen tools were once "Made in the USA," Wen is, by all indications, simply selling Wen-branded generic Chinese-made tools these days. Wen never was a top tier tool manufacturer, anyway. It's market niche, even in the 1950's, was the homeowner interested more in price point than quality. 

 

Read the links below to get some idea of how pointless it is for us to even begin to look to a label as any indication of the quality of a tool these days!  With all the internet purchasing, we can't even hold one in our hand before buying it. About the best we can do is to ask the guy who has one, and be careful of doing that if it's just an Amazon review!  

 

https://pressurewashr.com/tool-industry-behemoths/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tool_manufacturers

 

So, sorry for the thread drift, but I couldn't help but rant about the sorry state of tool quality these days. 

I know exactly what you're talking about and you can rant all you want on my threads. This was just one of those occasions that I thought a two use tool might fit the bill but but in a recent survey 2 out of 3 said they didn't like this kind of tool and the third was undecided😃😃😃

[Gregory]

Do you have a link for that?

 

From the image, I cant tell if its a chain saw  or an electric shotgun..

[Don Case]

WEN 6307 Variable Speed Detailing File Sander with 1/2-by-18" Belt: Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

 

There ya go

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, Don Case said:

I know exactly what you're talking about and you can rant all you want on my threads. This was just one of those occasions that I thought a two use tool might fit the bill but but in a recent survey 2 out of 3 said they didn't like this kind of tool and the third was undecided😃😃😃

I'd draw the same conclusion! I think the reviews on MSW are quite reliable.

 

[Roger Pellett]

IMHO Anyone buying power tools, particularly stationary ones, should not overlook used ones built by old line manufacturers 40 years or so. Ones that have been well taken care will outlast their owners.

 

Often new tools come with a lot of bells and whistles type features to attract buyers but are seldom used.  

 

Old tools are also usually belt driven so if the motor dies it can be replaced.  Parts like bearings are usually commercially and they are assembled with threaded fasteners available at a hardware store.

 

As far as I am concerned many new hand held power tools should almost be considered to be disposable.

 

 

[Dr PR]

There is nothing new about tool rip offs. My dad was a mechanic and carpenter, and he had a lot of tools made in the US in the '40s, '50s and '60s. In the early '70s after he wore out his 25 year old Skill saw he bought a new Black and Decker saw from a local store he had done business with for years.

 

A few months later I saw what appeared to be the same saw in a Krap Mart ad for about half of what dad paid for his. He was curious and we went out to have a look at it. It looked just like his, but when he looked it over he noticed that it had cheap brass/bronze bushings on the armature shaft instead of the roller bearings on his saw. A little more inspection revealed a few other cheap substitutions. It was made overseas. The lying marketing scum called it a heavy duty carpenter's saw!

[Bob Cleek]

3 hours ago, Dr PR said:

A little more inspection revealed a few other cheap substitutions.

Oh yeah! And not just "looks like the same...," either. Some years back I bought a set of bathroom fawcets to replace the ones in a remodel we were doing. They were a name brand, Delta, I believe. I got them from Home Depot, I recall. When my buddy, a plumber, came by, he asked where I got the fawcets and when I told him, he shook his head and said, "If you want to pull these ones out and return them, I'll get you better ones. I pulled them out and he came by with what looked like the identical fawcet set, new in the box from the same manufacturer. I said, "These are the same." He smiled and opened one up and pulled the valve cartridge out of it. It was some sort of plastic. Then he opened up one of the replacements he'd brought from his shop and pulled the valve cartridge out of it. It was all metal. In short, the outside castings were the same, but the "guts" of the two models were very different. I was happy to pay him the lower (wholesale) price for the ones he brought me and I returned the cheapo ones. He explained that the big box stores often buy huge numbers of units and have the manufacturers cut quality to bring the price down. You think you are buying the very same name-brand product, but it isn't.

[thibaultron]

That's like the Lowes "Craftsman Tools". They are not made by the same company that the Sears Craftsman tools were made by. Lowes bought the name and logo from Sears, but Stanley makes the tools. Sears still sells them, also, but reserved the right to continue to have their original manufacturer produce them, for I believe 10 years.

[Gregory]

Craftsman still has the lifetime warranty on hand tools..  I don't know if it as easy to claim it as it used to be.

 

I used to could take a 10 year old screwdriver with a chipped blade into a Sears store and swap it out, no questions asked.

[Moab]

Wow guys. I feel the pain. I must admit I was fooled by Wen. Are there any brands that we might deal with that still produce great tools?...Moab

[Roger Pellett]

I’ll give Moab an answer to his question with a story.

 

Twenty years ago I got involved in the restoration of wood canvas.  These projects all involved replacing the heavy canvas that had to be stretched over a fully planked wooden hull.  Procurement of this heavy cotton duck canvas could have been a problem.  Fortunately there is an excellent builder of new wood canvas canoes in Knife River, MN, a short drive from Duluth who was willing to sell me the canvas that I needed.

 

On a trip to buy canvas, as I pulled into his driveway I noticed a table saw and a canoe trailer in his yard each with a sign that read $150.  When I asked him about the saw, he said that it was a 10in Delta Contractor’s Saw and he was selling it because he had bought a new Saw Stop Saw.

 

I wrote him a check for $150 plus the cost of the canvas.  While wondering aloud about loading the saw into my SUV, he said, “How about a toofer, take the trailer too.”

 

I got the saw home and managed to get it into my shop.  20+ years later it still runs as well as it did the day that I bought it.  Unfortunately my wife and the lady next door conspired for me to “get rid of the ugly trailer” so I no longer have it.  I remind her of this whenever she wants something hauled.

 

This saw was bought from a professional canoe builder who had used it to cut miles of wood into canoe parts and I use it constantly.  I doubt that any  table saw on the market today sold through a big box store would give this kind of trouble free service.  There are, of course, high quality table saws available from specialized woodworking dealers, but these sell for many times what I paid.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rraisley]

19 hours ago, Don Case said:

Anyone use one of these? I was thinking it may be handy for fairing the inside of frames. They've always looked like an awkward thing to use to me. They are usually a couple hundred bucks but there is a Wen on Amazon.ca for $66. You usually get what you pay for but in this case the price is so different that you could get 3 for the price of a good one. I have read good reports on other Wen tools.

I bought the Wen 1/2" x 18" on Amazon (US) for $36.40 in January, and have found it very useful. From sanding off the extensions of grating assemblies, to tapering the pieces on the top of the Victory top, to squaring off portions of masts. At low speed, it works well enough, is easy to handle, and I even occasionally use it in my den, over the wastebasket, with my cat only 3 feet away, and it doesn't bother her. Definitely worth the money for me.

[Moab]

Great reminder Roger. I have a 35 year old  Inca 10" bandsaw  that I want them to bury with me....who knows!...Moiab

[stuglo]

I have used my Proxxon BS/E almost daily for the last few years. When it broke, I ordered a new one immediately. I was able to have it repaired so now I have two and sleep more easily. Both hand held and clamped in a vice (via adapter) it is very useful for coarse or crude shaping and finishing. Difficulty in maintaining right angles is a drawback so ample allowance must be made. The "bow" side is good for gentle curves. I used it for tapering, beveling and  initial fairing for the outside of the hull The finest paper is only 180 grit but the "aggressive" nature of the tool precludes its use for fine finishing.

I'm in the middle of fairing the inside of the hull and it is of use only for the tops of the frame. 

So far, no substitute for elbow grease. 

PS I have a Wen spindle sander- seems pretty good. In truth, almost nothing is as well made as it was. Robots have no pride in workmanship and the "bottom line" is all important. On the other hand, my grandparents first colour tv cost the same as a new small car.

[Bill Tuttle]

This reply is directed at the warranty comments made by Gregory in the previous post.  I carried a socket wrench into the local large Sears store for replacement. The clerk dug around in a box under the counter and came up with an old socket wrench to replace my like new inoperable one. I queried him regarding the guarantee and he said that was no longer effective. I haven’t nor will I ever buy a Craftsman tool since then. Furthermore I wrote a letter to the President of Sears relating this experience and I never received a reply.  Sad situation as these were very good tools at one time. I see Lowe’s has taken over the line and I am not sure what their guaranty is but I am through with the line and their products. 

[Rik Thistle]

Bob,

 

#4  Remember reputable brands like "Bell and Howell," (movie cameras,)  "Emerson," (radios and TV's), and just about every tool company you've ever heard of? Times have changed. Today, the brand names themselves have become commodities, monetized for their "customer loyalty" and established good reputation. The business model is 1) buy out a brand name with a good reputation, 2) "value re-engineer" the products by reducing the quality, plastic parts replacing metal where possible, etc., 3) close domestic manufacturing operations and move manufacturing to low-labor-cost Third World factories, 4) slap the reputable label on "generic" offshore products, 5) flood the market with advertising touting the brand name without disclosing the change in ownership and manufacturing origins, and 6) reap the profits for as long as possible until the consumers finally, if ever, figure it out. You still get what you pay for, to a large extent, because the higher priced units will generally have better quality control, warranties, and customer service, although, sometimes you get lucky and find a lower-priced brand of the same unit, built in the same factory in China by the People's Patriotic Power Tool Collective which just happened to be assembled "on a good day." 

 

Absolutely spot on. 

 

A couple of thoughts -

 

1) I wonder what was the real driver for cheapening down quality...eg was it the rapid growth in the home DIY'ers who weren't as knowledgeable about quality tools? I know a lot of CEOs (not all) like to gouge their customer base but that needs a susceptible market.

 

2) Does a list exist anywhere of reasonably priced, quality tools/manufacturers? And perhaps a list of tools/manufacturers to avoid? I realise those lists may be moving targets.

 

Richard

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

On 4/5/2021 at 1:52 AM, Rik Thistle said:

A couple of thoughts -

 

1) I wonder what was the real driver for cheapening down quality...eg was it the rapid growth in the home DIY'ers who weren't as knowledgeable about quality tools? I know a lot of CEOs (not all) like to gouge their customer base but that needs a susceptible market.

 

2) Does a list exist anywhere of reasonably priced, quality tools/manufacturers? And perhaps a list of tools/manufacturers to avoid? I realise those lists may be moving targets.

1)   The real drivers for cutting corners on quality are a) lower manufacturing costs to increase profits, b) lower manufacturing costs to enable reduction of price to increase market competitiveness, and c) "offshoring"" manufacturing for lower labor costs and tax advantages.

 

2) Such lists are difficult to maintain because the product specifications "are subject to change without notice." They outsource parts and manufacturing to the lowest bidder and next year's model may be quite different if a cheaper type of bearing is substituted, or the like, and yet, the new model will look exactly the same as the old one. The brand names change ownership as often as we change our socks, as well, so they aren't much of an indication, either. For example, Lowe's now owns the Craftsman line of tools, but isn't necessarily selling the same Craftsman tools that Sears once did. They advertise a "Craftsman lifetime warranty" on hand tools, but there's a catch. Here's Lowe's official statement:

 

FULL STATEMENT FROM LOWE'S CORPORATE COMMUNICATIONS:

"We will honor all lifetime warranties no matter where the CRAFTSMAN hand tool was purchased. We ask that customers bring in the item, and we’ll replace it if we have the product. If we do not have the product, customers can call the Customer Care Hotline (883-331-4569)."

Maureen Wallace, Lowe's

 

The operative clause is "if we have the product." If you bought your Craftsman tool from Sears, it's quite possibly not "the product" Lower's is now selling, so unless the Lowe's store to which you return your Sears Craftsman tool that is broken actually has the same tool in stock, you're out of luck, but you can call the Lowe's Customer Care Hotline and, after waiting on hold listening to muzak for ten minutes, somebody will tell you how sorry you are, but they can't help you because they don't sell the same tool you are trying to return so they don't have a new one to swap for it. 

[Rik Thistle]

Low labour costs have to be matched with a low cost of living, otherwise the business model isn't sustainable. And China and certain other Eastern countries did have low costs of living.

 

Another major, and possibly the crucial factor, was the arrival of the Shipping Container.... this really drove down transport costs and made it financially feasible to transports goods from one side of the world to the other and still return a profit. 

 

A great read on the history of the shipping container is  The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger https://www.amazon.co.uk/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Economy/dp/0691170819/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=the+box&qid=1617722118&rnid=1642204031&s=books&sr=1-1   In spite of severe resistance from invested interests the shipping container eventually became the standard way to transport goods, by ship, train and road.

 

Another factor is that certain Governments demand the production and sale of certain goods abroad and at a loss, to capture that market. Nasty, but it happens.

 

Also, I think in the 70s, 80s and 90s Western companies were tripping over themselves to do 'technology transfer' deals with foreign powers just to win orders. Once that genie was out of the bottle it was a one way slide downhill for the West.

 

Richard

           

[Roger Pellett]

I think that a contributing factor is a decline of interest interest in home workshop craftsmanship.

 

The big box stores that we love to hate are Home Improvement Stores, not woodworking stores.  The tools that they sell are adjunct to the kitchen cabinets, paint, floor coverings, etc. that I believe is their real product line.  Homeowners may buy the tools that they need to complete their current DIY project and seldom use them thereafter.

 

I believe that fewer people today, actually maintain an organized workshop.  Lack of uncommitted time, availability of other forms of entertainment, smaller living space all contribute.

 

There are specialized companies that cater to craftsmen.  Rockler, Woodcraft, and Lee Valley all come to mind.  The prices of their offerings understandably exceed those of the Home Improvement Stores.

 

Roger

[wefalck]

The term 'life-time warranty' always gets me - whose life and how long ?

[mtaylor]

2 hours ago, wefalck said:

The term 'life-time warranty' always gets me - whose life and how long ?

The life of the tool probably.  Once the tool breaks it's lifetime is over.  

[bruce d]

9 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Once the tool breaks it's lifetime is over.  

That is exactly what a 'service representative' said when I complained about an expensive machine that broke in the 1980's. Good thing I married a lawyer.🤐