Tiny Ship's Carvings---YIKES????

[mtaylor]

I'm probably overthinking this, but on my Belle Poule build (1:64 size), I was looking ahead.  Maybe too far ahead.

 

I have carvings on the stern.  The bow isn't a problem as I bought a lion rampant from CAF.  But the stern carvings will be and are driving me nuts.   In the pic below are some of the smaller one.  I've also have some are bigger but far more complex.   The pic show them "lightly" etched into a piece of holly.  I can get the lines a bit darker and thinner.

 

My question is this... how the heck would they get carved?  I ran some test using card stock and laminating which is a disaster to put it mildly.  The drawings have more detail than what I show here.  The detail shot of the stern is also below.

 

Any and all ideas will be welcome.

 

 

 

[druxey]

Well, Mark, you will need micro carving tools for these! Or commission someone tiny to carve them.

[Keith Black]

 Mark, see Doris's post # 434

 

 

 

[mtaylor]

Sorry about that.    I guess I panicked a bit once I realize how small these are.   I do have a several sets of the old Dockyard carving chisels that I've never used along with a large assortment of dental burrs.    Methinks it's time to learn and also use my magnifiers.  Maybe new glasses too.

 

Good one Druxey.  If I could only find a carver who's about 2 inches tall....

[PietFriet]

Or get in the wonderful world of 3D printing. I'm still amazed by the level of detail, that is not even visible by (my) eye. Attached Royal Cypher is raised 0.2 mm from the surface.

[Jack H]

3D printing is a relatively convenient method. I also printed an 18 pound 1:48, but I prefer brass. I am looking for composite processing technology, which can process fine brass guns.

 

 

For fine wood carving, CNC may be able to achieve good results, but manual micro carving is the most valuable.

[allanyed]

Piet,

What drawing format did you use?   I have never done 3D drawings but have drawings in three views in 2D.   Would that work?

Thanks

 

[Louie da fly]

Mark, apart from the difficulty of the actual carving of such fine detail, the grain of the wood is also a limiting factor - it may be coarser than the detail you're trying to carve. I'm using pear wood which has a pretty fine grain, and I'm hitting this problem. AFAIK box is finer and might be better for the purpose, but if you can 3D print these things you might be better off.

 

Steven

[PietFriet]

38 minutes ago, allanyed said:

Piet,

What drawing format did you use?   I have never done 3D drawings but have drawings in three views in 2D.   Would that work?

Thanks

 

Allan,

The barrel itself is done in Fusion 360 (3D). The Royal Cypher is traced using Inkscape (2D). You can import the resulting .svg file in Fusion and use the emboss command to place it on the barrel (and turn it into 3D). I hope this is clear, but let me know otherwise. 

Piet

[GrandpaPhil]

Scalpel, possibly with styrene.  Another option would be sculpey.  Just work slow.  The first couple will be the worst.  After that you’ll get your confidence up.

 

You are an excellent modeler and do awesome work.  You will do great!

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the response and ideas.

 

Hmmm....  I've dug out the carving tools and dental burrs.   Setting things up I'll test with holly and boxwood first as pearwood is the hull planking and I'd like a little contrast.  I plan on doing this as filler work while waiting for glue to dry.

 

Thanks for the idea of 3D printing.  I'll keep it in mind.

[Chuck Seiler]

Given the start up costs and learning curve associated with 3D printing (particularly for those of us trying figure out how to set the time on our VCRs) this may not be viable if one just wants customized cannon barrels or ship's carvings now and then.  Are there commercial services available for this?

[mtaylor]

I've seen some around, Chuck.   We do have a MakerSpace here locally that has two or three printers but not sure of their capabilities. Nor am I sure of mine with the learning curve involved to produce the artwork.

[Keith Black]

3 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

Nor am I sure of mine with the learning curve involved to produce the artwork.

 

 Once they simplify it to Etch a Sketch ease of use, count me in. 

[mtaylor]

3 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 

 Once they simplify it to Etch a Sketch ease of use, count me in. 

 

Etch a Sketch would work for me also, but I'm using CoreDraw.  I'm making about 10% bigger to allow for removing the burn and also shaping.   Maybe someone will come up with a miracle program/application that will automagically add the depth. 

 

All humor aside, this is enjoyable work instead of watching glue dry.

[allanyed]

Thanks Piet!!  I wonder if 3D in Turbocad would work as well??  I have NO experience with 3D so maybe time to learn.

Thanks again!

[Jack H]

Hi Allan!

3D models can be roughly divided into two categories, one is similar to mechanical parts of the model, the other is similar to human or animal and flowers, etc., the second is not suitable for CAD modeling, or even suitable for display in CAD software. So my suggestion for those who have no modeling experience is to enlarge the drawing, such as one or two times, or the proportion you think is appropriate, and then use clay. Be careful not to use black one. Then you can carve clay by hand and modify its details. Large scale carvings of clay are very easy to make and modify.Then you can get satisfactory results after 3D scanning, you can reduce the scale ( any scale by software) . Finally, you can get better details through 3D printing or CNC. In my opinion, 3D modeling is very difficult to learn, especially the human body (or animal).

 

Jack

[Jack H]

In addition, whether it is 3D scanning or using software modeling directly , it can be imported into CAD. 3D model can be transformed into 2D drawings or stored in CAD as 3D.

[rraisley]

On 5/21/2021 at 7:27 AM, allanyed said:

Piet,

What drawing format did you use?   I have never done 3D drawings but have drawings in three views in 2D.   Would that work?

Thanks

 

Alan, I can send you STL files for the guns we worked on, and if you'd like a different gun, send me the 3 view drawings and I'll see if I can make it for you. You've been a lot of help to me. Of course, if you're interested in doing it yourself in 3D, that's fine too.

[Dr PR]

I have been using CAD software for 33 years, and at least 25 years working in 3D CAD, including ship modeling:

 

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19321-uss-oklahoma-city-clg-5-1971-3d-cad-model/?do=findComment&comment=590228

 

Learning to use a 3D CAD program is not an easy task for most people. It can take a year or more to become really proficient. Some programs have absolutely horrible user interfaces - what we once called "user hostile." Some of the documentation (if there is any) is abominable, and often incomprehensible. So if you are thinking of getting a CAD program be sure it has a FREE on line user forum where you can get help from other users (like this forum). Don't count on technical support from the company unless you have to pay for it, and some CAD programs charge as much as $2500 per year for technical support, and even to be able to use the user forum!

 

This will be time spent when you are not creating your real model. But once you learn it is an extremely useful tool for figuring out how to build models, and most programs can even create files for 3D printing .

 

****

 

My experience with 3D CAD newbies (I was a 3D CAD user forum monitor for decades) is that the biggest problem is that they have never "thought" in 3D. This is especially true of experienced 2D CAD users. 3D CAD is not "drawing!" Almost nothing you have learned using a 2D CAD program, Photoshop, Corel Draw and other drawing programs will help you, and will probably be an obstacle you have to get over before you can really work in 3D. In 3D CAD you are modelling in a virtual universe that you create, and you have to think in 3D. You do not create a drawing, you create an object. Some people never achieve this and their 3D CAD attempts are failures.

 

[wefalck]

Mark, I was recently pointed towards this building log: 

The guy explains his strategy when carving styrene, but he also does quite good wood-carvings, so he knows what he is doing. I scrolled through all 53 pages of the log and there are some interesting ideas in it. Begin at the end, because the carving doesn't start until page 40 or so.