Another Never Ever

[Malazan]

This will be my first Wooden Model Ship, just wondering if any of these would be ok to attempt

 

https://www.agesofsail.com/ecommerce/amati-kits/victory-models/amati-lady-nelson-am1300-01.html
 

https://www.agesofsail.com/ecommerce/caldercraft-ship-kit/nelson-s-navy/caldercraft-cutter-sherbourne.html
 

https://vanguardmodels.co.uk/product/alert-order/
 

https://www.agesofsail.com/ecommerce/occre/occre-ship-model-kits/bounty-boat--occre-oc52003.html
 

https://www.agesofsail.com/ecommerce/occre/occre-ship-model-kits/occre-san-juan-feluca-oc12001.html

 

https://www.agesofsail.com/ecommerce/constructo/albatross---constructo-wooden-ship-model-kit-80702.html

[GrandpaPhil]

Personally, I would get the Vanguard Alert kit out of that list.  A cutter is a great first build.  
 

Also, @chris watton, the gentleman who designed the kit and manufactures it, is on this forum, and can answer questions.

 

His stuff is top notch.

[Gregory]

I agree with GrandpaPhil.

 

The other kits on your list leave a lot to be desired for a first wood ship kit..

They would tend to be more discouraging than helpful in getting started in this hobby.

 

[Jim Rogers]

Agreed

[Jaager]

This is two generations after I started all this and I have no hands on experience  with kits in this series,   ( I did start with the old Model Shipways  kits - yellow box  - carved Basswood hulls.)

but if you have little or no experience with hardwood woodworking - especially at scale level - (plastic kits as a lead-in probably only helps with painting at scale - and given the kits that you express an interest in - there will be little to no painting with the wood)  -  you might consider a careful and sure footed entry into all this.

 

https://modelexpo-online.com/Model-Shipways-Lowell-Grand-Banks-Dory-with-Tools-124-Scale-Skill-Level-I-of-the-Shipwright-Learning-Series_p_3959.html

 

A boat is certainly not as sexy as a first rate  or a cutter even  -  but even cutters had boats -  understanding boats is a valuable skill/knowledge base  and the actual work will give you enough of a taste to know if this is something that you really want to plunge into without investing a house payment.

 

Reading:   For Beginners -- A Cautionary Tale    would be time well spent.

 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Jaager

[Malazan]

Thanks I really like that Vanguard model, I tried to pick an Amati Victory model cause I know Chris designed them, is that correct?  Also I read that Caldercraft and OcCre have pretty good instructions?

 

is that the problem with the other kits for a new builder,  The instructions?

[Bob Cleek]

For a first model, you'd be well-advised to take a pass on any model with square yards and "lots of string." For a second model, assuming you continue on from your first, do not attempt any model which has square yards on more than one mast. After that, you should have a good feel for your abilities and you're on your own. The kit manufacturers sell lots of big, expensive, highly detailed models to beginners who never finish them. Lots and lots of them. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[Malazan]

LOL man, I get you. My eyes were instantly drawn to ships like the Victory, SOS, San Juan Nepomuceno etc…

 

but I know better than to try something like that, any ship I look at that has tons of rigging and sails I bypass

[VTHokiEE]

1 hour ago, Malazan said:

I really like that Vanguard model

I built the Vanguard Alert as my first planked ship model. I highly recommend it, there are great logs to follow and Chris is really responsive to any questions or needs. The instructions are top notch but there are some nautical terms/concepts that I greatly benefited from that partially working on the NRG planking kit before tackling the Alert (mainly the initial bearding line and thinning out the deadwood).
 

Side note - you might want to simply read through the original build log for the NRG half Hull to understand some concepts (like bearding lines) if you don’t have any experience.

[Jaager]

1 hour ago, Malazan said:

is that the problem with the other kits for a new builder,  The instructions?

It is your unrealistic expectation about what instructions can help you with and lead you thru that can leave you as one of the majority who attempt this model ship building-  an ash shadow on the field.

A plastic kit is the assembly of a model - instructions can lead you thru it.

A wooden ship model is something entirely different.  It is the assembly of many models.  But you must also fabricate each of those models before you.can assemble them.

It would require that instructions be complete for fabrication as well as assembly.  Tools are needed for the fabrication.  Each tool has its own level of required knowledge and practice for you to get it to do the job that you wish. 

A ship in any culture at any time involves everything that that culture can produce at its most sophisticated level.  Thru the 17th and much of the 18th it also involved its level in the visual arts.

Every part of a ship is unique in shape.  Essentially everything is curved.  Each curve is different.  The primary material is wood.  It too involves a much deeper level of experience with it than any synthetic product.

Good plans and instructions should show you WHAT you have to fabricate.  It is almost impossible to tell or show you HOW.   It just involves too much.  It means that if you have to ask,  then you do not already have the skills - developed from prior experience - to just jump in the deep end. 

 

It is certainly possible to start with a monster like Victory and see it thru to finish.  But the learning part makes it go slowly and the rewards and positive feedback is so slow in coming that few have the patience to do it.

[markjay]

If you haven't down load the Alert construction manual on the Vanguard site. It it give you a great overview of the project and what to expect. Good luck.

[Malazan]

So, I ordered two Model Kits, the Amati Lady Nelson and the Vanguard Alert. I also ordered the following 

A Detailed Guide To Building Model Ship Kits and the Freshman Course, Lady Nelson from Lauck Street Shipyard.

I plan to learn the building of ships on the Lady Nelson and then build the Alert after I acquire some skill

 

Thank you to everyone for the advise 

[Malazan]

Not sure what you mean? Seems to have more good than bad? 
 

LOL he seems a little eccentric like a grumpy old man, but if he can teach me how to build a ship I can put up with a bit. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Malazan

[mtaylor]

7 hours ago, Malazan said:

LOL he seems a little eccentric like a grumpy old man, but if he can teach me how to build a ship I can put up with a bit. 

Grumpy and eccentric is an understatement.   Some of practicums aren't bad.  Others seem to be rather haphazard with bits and bad bits.  I'd use the build logs here as primary reference and his book more as an overview.  Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on them based upon what I've seen.

 

Oh.. and he goes ballistic if try to sell the book as he claims you can't legally do that.

[Gregory]

18 hours ago, mtaylor said:

I'd use the build logs here as primary reference and his book more as an overview.

I would 2nd this without recommending the book at all.

This log by Glenn Barlow is an excellent source.

There are several other logs .

 

The Lauck Street products do not have much of a following here at MSW..

Edited October 4, 2021 by Gregory

[Malazan]

On 10/1/2021 at 3:48 PM, Jaager said:

This is two generations after I started all this and I have no hands on experience  with kits in this series,   ( I did start with the old Model Shipways  kits - yellow box  - carved Basswood hulls.)

but if you have little or no experience with hardwood woodworking - especially at scale level - (plastic kits as a lead-in probably only helps with painting at scale - and given the kits that you express an interest in - there will be little to no painting with the wood)  -  you might consider a careful and sure footed entry into all this.

 

https://modelexpo-online.com/Model-Shipways-Lowell-Grand-Banks-Dory-with-Tools-124-Scale-Skill-Level-I-of-the-Shipwright-Learning-Series_p_3959.html

 

A boat is certainly not as sexy as a first rate  or a cutter even  -  but even cutters had boats -  understanding boats is a valuable skill/knowledge base  and the actual work will give you enough of a taste to know if this is something that you really want to plunge into without investing a house payment.

 

Reading:   For Beginners -- A Cautionary Tale    would be time well spent.

 

I think I’ll take your advise and start with this Dory first, then I’ll try the Lady Nelson, and work my way up to the Alert

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, Malazan said:

On 10/1/2021 at 5:48 PM, Jaager said:

I think I’ll take your advise and start with this Dory first

If you haven’t yet, be sure to check out some of the Dory build logs on this site.  There are some beautiful builds to inspire you.

[glbarlow]

On 10/3/2021 at 11:54 AM, Malazan said:

A Detailed Guide To Building Model Ship Kits and the Freshman Course, Lady Nelson from Lauck Street Shipyard.

I build my first model, the AVS using the practicum by Bob Hunt of Lauck Street, I highly recommend his practicums. He’s a cantankerous old dude but I learned a great deal from his guided instructions, much of which I still use today. It is a great way to learn by the numbers. I’d definitely go that route as a first timer. Seems some have an issue with some of his business practices, I wouldn’t let that influence you, the practicums are great. Just don’t buy the one he did for a Chinese kit. 
 

The Alert is a much better kit than Lady Nelson, but LN is a good starter model. Cutters are cool ships, mast and rigging but in a much simpler form that a brig or frigate. You’d be crazy to start off with Victory or Vanguard, way too much the first, or third, time out. I thought Chris had stopped producing Alert, if that’s the case consider Flirt, more complicated but any Vanguard model is better than most others

Edited October 5, 2021 by glbarlow

[glbarlow]

The Nelson and Alert are essentially the same ship, a cutter ( though not near the same quality kit). Might want to consider that in your choices. 

[glbarlow]

On 10/3/2021 at 4:10 PM, Gregory said:

The Lauck Street products do not have much of a following here at MSW

I wouldn’t have built my first ship without the practicum. He may be ornery, but the Fair American (no longer produced) was a great kit and the AVS and Pride of Baltimore are great practicums. He may be over zealous about his copyright and IP, but isn’t that a thing on this forum. 

[Malazan]

Vanguard just shipped me the Alert, I got the Lady Nelson to practice with before the Alert, quite a price difference. Didn’t want to ruin the Alert first time out 😆 

[Jasseji]

1 hour ago, Malazan said:

Vanguard just shipped me the Alert, I got the Lady Nelson to practice with before the Alert, quite a price difference. Didn’t want to ruin the Alert first time out 😆 

i got the LN as well but then after starting i only checked the Alert Manual.

 

Both models are designed by Chris but the Manual for his new Creations is UNIVERSES apart from the LN, also his own kits adress some frustration-issues (both in the manual as in the Kit solutions themself)