HM Sloop Echo 1781 by VTHokiEE - 1:48 - Cross-Section

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks @No Idea and @Old Collingwood

 

@druxey I’m glad to hear that because they have been a little hair raising so far. The upper sill which doesn’t have lower frames to guide from seems like it will be trickier still 😬. Of course that makes it all the more satisfying when it’s done.

[VTHokiEE]

Big milestone - all the frames are raised - Hooray! I'm currently trying to decide if I should add the scupper "boxes" (for lack of a better term) now or later. I would only add them on the un-planked side as I believe they will be completely invisible on the planked side - is that correct? I'm a little (or maybe a fair amount) nervous about fairing. Mainly:

• Accidentally rounding the first and last frame (I'm also wishing that I was a lot more precise about my spacers. I left them a bit longer than I should have and don't see a great way to cut them down so I suppose that will be some added sanding there).
• Fragility - I need to remove the section from the building board which at least doubles my risk of clumsy hands.

Any tips before I dive in? (aside from the reminder to go slow 😁)

[druxey]

If you use sanding sticks rather than freehand sandpaper, rounding over of the end frames should not be an issue. And yes, the scupper supports will not be seen on a completely planked side.

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks @druxey, I also remembered that I will need to add the frame sections over the sills but I think that makes sense to do after I get some fairing done.

[tlevine]

As there is little camber, I took a 2" x 4" piece of 1/4" plywood and glued two different grits of sandpaper to it for fairing.  That eliminates the round-over problem.  Looking good.

[No Idea]

I think the work you have done is beautiful - the spacers are just about right and I know this as I made mine far to big.

 

I tend to use abrasives around a round dowel when sanding the spacers as it gives a small and controllable contact patch.  I also agree with druxey rounding off is not an issue if you don't go free hand - good luck!

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks @tlevine and @No Idea, I’ve been making some good progress on fairing but having to fair significantly more than I thought and unfortunately the frames will be thinner than planned.

I suppose this is a warning to other first timers but my first frames were not build to the same standard as the final ones and across the board I didn’t sand them to the same “line.” It would’ve benefitted me greatly to leave more of to account for my “workmanship.” I think it will be fine in the end but the frames are thinner than they should be. A little frustrated with myself (hence the post to let the frustration go) but still enjoying the build.

 

Have a Merry Christmas everyone - thank you for all the comments, likes and support. Hopefully, I’ll have a faired cross section to post pictures of in the not to distant future (maybe by new years if I can find the time).

Edited December 23, 2022 by VTHokiEE

[druxey]

Treat this cross section as an apprenticeship in framing. It teaches one so  much and will stand in good stead for future models. No model, however fine, will be perfect!

[VTHokiEE]

You’re absolutely right @druxey, thank you for the proper perspective.

[dvm27]

I had the same problem with my first POF model. Nobody will notice the thinned sections but they will notice bumps and protrusions. For final fairing use pencil marks across the hull. Sand, mark, sand etc. until all pencil marks are gone. Whatever is leftover is your perfectly faired hull.

 

On your next model you'll be less inclined to cut exactly to the frame marks, perhaps leaving 1/16" for those inevitable frame raising errors.

 

Happy Holidays and congratulations on an excellent first POF model.

[glbarlow]

Your'e doing fine, keep doing fine and you'll be fine.

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks everyone for the likes and comments.

 

I made it through fairing and boy was it a learning experience regarding pencil lines and most importantly "leave extra wood on the frames" I will say that I'm starting to feel much more comfortable with telling when fairing is "done." However I was quite disheartened as I faired this section as I sanded basically down to the chocks in a spot (or two 😬) and in an extended moment of disappointment almost decided that after framing I would be done and not continue on. However, in the morning cooler heads prevailed - how can I learn from my mistakes during the fitting out process if I don't make them now 😁?

 

I buckled down and made the upper top timbers that sit on sill, faired them and added the curve from the plans to each side. I used a very slow RPM rotary tool with a small sanding drum to achieve the curve. I'm currently in the process of adding the scuppers for the unplanked side (which is shown below). I added some extra wood on the opposite side to help with fairing but that means it has to be covered - and another reason to press onwards. One question remains as I wrap up framing - what are good ways to cut down the frame tops to make them even (I should have left a touch more there as well on a few frames)?

 

Finally, I've been reading and re-reading the fitting out document as I near the end of framing and I'm slowing becoming concerned about making the "column" components as I have no lathe and considering how to get through those steps once I get there. Happy New Years all!

[tlevine]

Don't worry about the frame tops at this point.  They can always be levelled later, when there is no risk of damaging them.  As I recall, I used a flat disc sander on my Dremel to bring them to their final height.  Looking good.

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks for the tip @tlevine and the advice to wait; I’ll do that. I did realize that I need to sand the top Timbers of the tall frames to make an angle of sorts as well.

[Old Collingwood]

That is  looking Superb  my friend  -  it looks  perfectly  smooth  with  level  frames.

 

All the  best to you and yours  for the  New  Year.

 

OC.

[glbarlow]

Admirable work!

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks @Old Collingwood

 

Appreciate it @glbarlow - when are you going to do a scratch build? I could use a detailed log from you to avoid my pitfalls 😁.

[glbarlow]

12 minutes ago, VTHokiEE said:

to do a scratch build?

I actually have the wood set for Echo, so someday I may follow your log. 😊

[VTHokiEE]

I surprised myself with a last post of the year; I had assumed my previous post would be, but as luck would have it I had a lightbulb moment and decided how I was going to proceed and install the scupper ports (the angle was giving me pause). I decided to sand in the angles for the ports by clamping battens to set the angle as shown below and then using a sanding stick cut to the same height at the block.

 

Everything seemed to be going great until I added the second scupper tube and it looked slightly higher than I intended. It was at that point that I realized that I failed to account for the thickness of the batten which raised the front of the sanding stick resulting in a less inclined angle for the scuppers. I tried to draw this to help people see what I accidentally did and to correct for it if you try to duplicate my guides. I should have lowered the "low" batter to account for this offset. 

In the end I think it turned out well regardless (though these photos have me casting a sideways glance at the lower sill of the sweep port). I'm not certain if I can level that out or if I'll make things worse by trying 🤔.

I'll consider it as I taper aft frame 4 and 5. Happy New Years!

Edited January 2, 2023 by VTHokiEE

[druxey]

The priniciple that you used is a good strategy, though.

[dvm27]

Don't forget that when you level your toptimber line use a long sanding stick with 120 grit on one side and 180 on the other. Sand both toptimber lines athwartships at the same time and creep up on the lines. This way both the height and angle of the toptimbers will be correct.

[VTHokiEE]

The fitting out has begun and with it I am learning more than I ever expected about using my mill and machining. I have to sheepishly admit that I didn't square my vise at all prior to now (some of the cuts here exposed the issue) - side note: does anyone have a dial indicator that fits in the MF70? I can't seem to find one with smaller than a 5/32" or 4mm stud to clamp it on.

 

I picked up a set of angle setup blocks and a small toolmakers vise to help with angled cuts (and learned about complimentary angles when I measured the wrong one off the plan - doh).

 

In order to properly align the keelson (after beveling) I used a few guides, clamped to the keel, which held upright parts in place which would then keep the keelson in the proper position.

It was when I started beveling the limber strakes that I finally started running into work envelope issues with the MF70. Ideally I would rotate this clamp assembly and use the y-axis but after so carefully aligning it I found other ways to get the proper finish the cut

I currently have the limber strakes and the second strakes attached and and am trying to determine the best way to place and align the thick stuff. I also realized that my thickest board was 1/4" and the middle strake of thick stuff is bigger so I may need to order some more wood. First I may see if I can creatively cut what I have or if that will negatively impact the grain by using width of the board instead of thickness - if that makes sense.

Thanks for stopping by!

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by VTHokiEE

[Rustyj]

Very nice and creative work!

[VTHokiEE]

Hi all - looking for an opinion regarding fitting the “thick stuff” over the floor heads. I think the chock location in the aft most frame isn’t in the exact precise location (my error, probably when I was raising and aligning frames). This means that I’m not 100% certain what the proper run for these planks are. I think it is the following picture where the planks are pretty much parallel to the other planks (there might need to be some final tweaks if the run should be fully parallel):

Or if there really is an angle (exaggerated below) and the run isn’t exactly parallel.

I “think” from other logs that the top image is correct. Any opinions and advice would be very much appreciated as I feel like missing the mark too much here will create some significant issues later.

[druxey]

There is a slight narrowing in the aft body along this section so, if the second photo shows the aft end to the left, this would account for things. However, if the aft end is to the right.... In any case, the angle would be slightly less than your trial set-up, I think.

[VTHokiEE]

15 minutes ago, druxey said:

if the second photo shows the aft end to the left

It would have been wise for me to clarify this. Yes the atf end is to the left. The narrowing had crossed my mind as well. I’ll continue to tweak with the understanding that there will be some angle to the plank. Thank you!

[dvm27]

Druxey is, as always, correct. Visually I found the angle looked a bit jarring on my cross section so made it just slightly off parallel to the keel.

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks @dvm27 I appreciate the insight! The angle did feel jarring at first but I think I’m coming around to a slighter angle. We’ll see how it ends up 🙂

[VTHokiEE]

I'm trying to stage a return to the bench by posting this miniscule update. I moved a little while ago and my workspace is still far from set up (a co-worker gifted me a nice bench but I haveto pick it up and life has been busy for that as of yet). Hopefully in the next week or so I will make some more progress, but I was excited to get here. The big reveal is that I finally found some appropriately sized monofilament (I simply had to get it shipped from Germany):

With this I "bolted" down the keelson. In my "haste" I misaligned the final bolt unfortunately (it's way too close to the bevel) - but this will be hidden later in the construction so I'm not too concerned about it.

Next up: foot-waling on the planked side while I ponder the notes on the lower deck clamps. This seems like a prime place to misalign a plank...

Edited April 2, 2023 by VTHokiEE

[glbarlow]

Looking nice, glad you’re returning to the bench.