HM Brig-Sloop Flirt 1782 by BobG - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[glbarlow]

5 hours ago, BobG said:

but it looks like the 2mm thinned area around the deadwood gradually flows into the full, original, 3mm width of the false keel with maybe a little tapering into it from the bottom edges of the bulkheads. Is this right? 

That’s right. 

[BobG]

It was a beautiful day here in Sacramento today so I pulled up a yard chair, put on my shop apron, grabbed my soft sanders and began fairing the hull. I actually enjoy sanding and shaping just about anything and I really enjoyed the whole process today. It took me 5+ hours of sanding and constantly checking my progress with a thin batten until I decided I was done.

 

The run looks fair everywhere I lay the batten spanning 3-4 bulkheads at a time with no noticeable bumps or dips and with the batten making good contact with the bulkheads. Of course the bow and stern areas took much more time. I find the most difficult area to fair is from about bulkhead 4 to the bow where the curve is more severe. It took quite a bit of sanding in that area until I was happy with it. The stern area from bulkheads 13 to 16 also requires more attention. I found my round and curved soft sanders worked really well in that area.

 

I tapered the false keel where the stern post will be added to about 2 mm in width along with the deadwood area from bulkhead 13 to the stern.

 

One thing I did notice while I was fairing is that there was a bulge in the deck near bulkhead 6. On closer inspection, I could see that the deck was not seated into the notch in the bulkhead. I tried to press it down but it wouldn't budge because the of dried PVA glue in the gap between the deck and the deck beam. Luckily, I was able to take a scalpel and clear out the dried up glue and then snap the deck down into the notch. I'm getting pretty good at fixing my mistakes! 

 

Next up are adding the bulwark patterns which everyone seems to "fun" with! 😏

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for coming by everyone. Cheers!

 

 

 

[glbarlow]

Looks good to go.

[BobG]

21 hours ago, hof00 said:

Hi Bob, Ditto as Katsumoto said.... 🙂

 

Welcome aboard, Harry. I hope you enjoy following my little journey.

[DelF]

Just catching up with your log Bob. Looks like you're off to a good start, and well done for recording the full journey. I get a tad suspicious when I read a log where the builder sails serenely from a pile of wood to a superb model without a single hitch on the way. For me overcoming problems and rectifying mistakes is part of the fun of our hobby, and recording them in a log not only helps others but reduces the chance you'll suffer the same problems on future models. I'll enjoy following along.

 

Derek

[BobG]

8 hours ago, DelF said:

For me overcoming problems and rectifying mistakes is part of the fun of our hobby, and recording them in a log not only helps others but reduces the chance you'll suffer the same problems on future models. I'll enjoy following along.

 

Welcome, Derek, and thanks for coming along. I'm learning to "enjoy" fixing my mistakes as long as they actually can be fixed adequately!   

[Theodosius]

The faring looks good to me!

 

There is one point I'm not so sure about: the stern counter, piece 38 on page 10 of the Flirt-manual. In the photos it looks like as if there is, at least the right side, not enough curve in there. It seems at is is more ore less completley flat. But it should follow a curve to match the curves on the bulwarks (37 at the end) and later the Stern Side Counter Timbers (57). It could only be the picture and I could be completly wrong, but when there is a little change needet, than perhaps better to look at it now :-).

If it is to flat, it might be from the fact that you broke the Stern Frame Pattern (30&31), and perhaps you don't add enough power on the stern counter to form the curve to not break them again. And if so, perhaps it might be enough to just sand/file the needed curve into it.

But, as I allready wrote: I might be completley wrong here, because such things are difficould to see on a picture :-).

 

And I made the same experience: it feels so good to overcome the home made errors and tu build a wooden boat modell is quite satisfieying. So, can't wait for your next update. I hope you have not as much issues with the ply-gunport-patterns as I had! 🙂

[BobG]

9 hours ago, Theodosius said:

In the photos it looks like as if there is, at least the right side, not enough curve in there.

 

You are correct, Theodosius, the right side of the upper stern counter could use a little more curve. It is sitting flush up against the stern frame patterns so apparently the repaired joint on the most starboard stern frame patter is not in perfect alignment after my repairs on all 4 of the broken stern patterns. Consequently I lost a bit of the curve on the starboard side of the stern counter.

 

I thought about removing it and trying to correct it but I would have had to use acetone to loosen the CA I used and that would have dissolved the repaired joints on the all of the repaired stern patterns as well.  So this is one of those times where I decided to leave "well enough" alone. Any further attempts to improve it would have made thing worse, IMO. I may be able to add a little bit more curve on the starboard side with some very careful sanding. I'll address that when it comes time to plank the counter. 

 

I've looked at every build log for the Flirt and the Speedy and it seems like everyone ran into some issues when adding the gunport patterns. As you will see in my next post, I've run into the same difficulties that the other builders have experienced also. Stay tuned to see the next episode of my "Bob's Ship Modeling Errors and Repairs." 🙄 

Edited February 12, 2022 by BobG

[VTHokiEE]

2 hours ago, BobG said:

Stay tuned to see the next episode of my Bob's Ship Modeling Errors and Repairs."

It’s looking good Bob, don't be too hard on yourself; my scrap pile is constantly growing. I’m not as eloquent in my writing about it yet though 😂.

[BobG]

The next step was to add the stem and the bulwark patterns (or gunport patterns) and, like many other Flirt and Speedy builders whose logs I have read, I found this step to be challenging. They say "all is well that ends well" and, fortunately, in the end, I think all is well. 🤞

 

However, it didn't come without lots of fiddly fitting and bewilderment when trying to to get them to conform properly to the bulkheads. Oh, and I continued my penchant for breaking fragile parts and repairing them as you will see below. 🙄

 

I started off by scoring the bulkhead tabs that are to be removed later. I had read in gbarlow's log that this can help with their removal but to only score them "lightly."

 

 

The birch plywood is quite hard and I thought bulkhead tabs might be tough to remove cleanly and so I got a little overzealous with the scoring. Consequently, I broke a couple of them later as I was pressing the pattern up against them. I was able to scrabble together a fix by adding two small support pieces on each side of the tabs and glue them in alignment as best I could. I had trouble getting them to set firmly with PVA so I used some CA and sprayed it with Insta-Cure while holding them in position and this locked them tightly in place.

 

This photo below was taken before I sanded the repaired tabs flush with the edge of the deck:

 

 

I soaked the patterns in hot water for 30 minutes to make them more pliable and I used a blow dryer to dry them in place to conform with curve of the bulkheads and with slight upward twist towards the bow as best I could. I was able to get them shaped as seen below:

 

 

Now the fun began! Try as I might, I couldn't get the pattern to stay in the stem and follow the tops of the bulkhead tabs while laying firmly against them. When the pattern was seated tightly in the stem, it would stick up over the tops of the tabs as it ran aft. When I pushed it down so that the aft end was flush with the top of the bulkhead 9 tab, it would pop out of the stem.

 

Then, just to add a bit more complexity to this juggling act, there were gaps under the pattern at the forward bulkheads 3, 4 and 5. You can edge bend a plank to conform to this area but you can not edge bend these wide patterns. At this point, I was second guessing myself thinking that I had messed up the fairing because of the gaps.

 

Then I went back and looked at the Flirt and Speedy logs hoping to gain some tips on how to manage this step. I was relieved to read in one log where James H had had replied that he had some gaps under the patterns also and that there was no need to worry about it too much since the problem would be taken care of by the width of the double planking and some sanding. I also noted that the manual says to align the patterns "as closely as you can with the tip of the bulkhead tabs." So the patterns didn't need to be perfectly flush with the tops of all the tabs either.

 

It was a relief to know that the gaps under the bulkheads 3, 4 and 5 were manageable and the alignment of the patterns with the tips of the tabs didn't have to be perfect so I continued on.

 

It took a lot of fidgeting and making adjustments while gluing and clamping. Once I got all of the clamps on and a rubber band around the stern counter, I decided to nail the bottom of the patterns to help close the gaps. The nails that come with the kit a very tiny and, without pre-drilling pilot holes, they would bend when I tried to tap them into the tough birch plywood. So I used some slightly fatter nails that I had and they worked well. I had to drive some of the nails all the way in and others were left partially out. I ended up removing some, cutting others off flush and then sanded them flush with the patterns.

 

 

 

You can see the small indentations around some of the nails after I cut them off but they won't be a problem since the whole area will be planked. I filed them down until the whole pattern felt completely smooth.

 

 

The patterns extended about 3 mm beyond the counter at the stern so I sanded them flush with the counter. 

 

 

 

I had a slight amount of waviness where the patterns bend more sharply at the bow. I had read where these could be "ironed" out by using a travel iron. So I took my iron, dabbed some water on the problem areas and, voilà, the waviness pretty much disappeared!

 

This was a very challenging step for me and it tested my confidence about what I was doing but, in the end, I'm happy with the results. The patterns run smoothly and the port and starboard sides appear symmetrical to each other to my eye.

 

 

 

I'm glad to have finished this part of the build and I'm really looking forward to start the planking. I want to learn how to do the planking by lining of the hull to determine the shape of the planks.  Now if I can only stop breaking things...I'm up to 6 now! 😏

 

As always, thanks to everyone for taking a look and for the comments and likes. Always much appreciated! 

 

Cheers!

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by BobG

[Theodosius]

Lol, I think I breaked the same rib during my ply-planking :-). But you nailed it a lot faster and with a better result than I did! Looks good, now the real fun can start, and I mean that not as a joke, I enjoyed the planking-process :-).

[ct mike]

Excellent job fitting the patterns.  Looks like everything went very well. After you fretted over the problem it looks all ship shape.  Having fun following your build.  Aloha, Mike

[BobG]

On 2/12/2022 at 12:19 PM, VTHokiEE said:

It’s looking good Bob, don't be too hard on yourself; my scrap pile is constantly growing.

 

5 hours ago, Theodosius said:

But you nailed it a lot faster and with a better result than I did! Looks good,

 

3 hours ago, ct mike said:

Excellent job fitting the patterns.  Looks like everything went very well. After you fretted over the problem it looks all ship shape. 

 

Thank you Tim, Theodosius and Mike for your kind comments and thanks to everyone else for the likes and stopping by.

 

I had my struggles with the gunport patterns for sure but, all in all, it was a good experience for me to stick with it when I wasn't completely sure if I was doing it entirely the right way. Chris has done such a good job of making the parts in this kit fit together so well that you almost begin to think that everything should just snap perfectly into place if you are doing it right. However, there's still room for a lot of individual variation introduced by each builder that affects how things fit together.

 

What I've learned is that each step may not go as smoothly as you would like it to go but if you take the time to read about what others have done, work slowly and stick with it, things will probably turn out ok. 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by BobG

[hollowneck]

2 hours ago, BobG said:

 

 

 

Thank you Tim, Theodosius and Mike for your kind comments and thanks to everyone else for the likes and stopping by.

 

I had my struggles with the gunport patterns for sure but, all in all, it was a good experience for me to stick with it when I wasn't completely sure if I was doing it entirely the right way. Chris has done such a good job of making the parts in this kit fit together so well that you almost begin to think that everything should just snap perfectly into place if you are doing it right. However, there's still room for a lot of individual variation introduced by each builder that affects how things fit together.

 

What I've learned is that each step may not go as smoothly as you would like it to go but if you take the time to read about what others have done, work slowly and stick with it, things will probably turn out ok. 

 

 

 

...as Reverend Ron Hollowneck is fond of saying: "Hallelujah!"... you're doing a fine job and this model is turning out nicely. I like it.

[gjdale]

I somehow missed the start of this log Bob, so am just catching up. Looks like you’ve made excellent progress so far. Model building is a series of challenges and problem solving, and I think this is what makes it so enjoyable - actually working out solutions and implementing them. You’ve done a fine job of solving the problems you’ve encountered to date, so have confidence in your abilities as a modeller. I look forward to following along the rest of this build.

[BobG]

Thanks very much Ron and Grant for your kind comments and encouragement.

 

I'm reading up on Chuck's method of planking the hull at the moment. I want to give it a try but I need to understand the steps better before I jump in with both feet...

[DelF]

Good job on the gunport patterns Bob. Even the best kits aren't intended to snap together like Lego bricks (they'd be boring if they did!) - you've shown that they need a degree of skill and perseverance to get good results. Well done!

 

Derek

[glbarlow]

Gun port patterns are never ever easy, you’re doing fine. For the record I did say lightly on those tabs, the good news is they’ll break off easily when you want them to now.

[BobG]

6 hours ago, glbarlow said:

For the record I did say lightly on those tabs, the good news is they’ll break off easily when you want them to now.

 

My "lightly" was a bit too energetic! 🥴 

 

I hope they do break off nicely. I tried to use as little glue as possible to hold the patterns to the tabs. Some needed more glue than others to hold them in place without any gaps and they might be a little stubborn to get off cleanly. I'll use some heat and a scalpel to loosen the PVA glue in the joint if necessary.

Edited February 17, 2022 by BobG

[BobG]

One of my goals building this model was to try and learn how to plank the hull using Chuck's method of lining off the hull and edge bending the planks and, although this is a double planked model, I thought it would be wise to practice on the first planking. It would be easier and much faster to simply plank the hull by tapering the planks where they overlap the previous plank as suggested in the instructions. Certainly, James H did a fine job of planking the prototype this way.

 

However, some of the planking I've seen on the Cheerful and the Winnie are stunning and Chuck really encourages builders to learn this method. I also love the look of the boxwood planks and I'm seriously thinking of leaving the hull natural without painting it so I'd like for the second planking to be quite good. Of course, if I make a mess of it, I'll be filling and sanding and painting like crazy!

 

I will say this though. I've watched Chuck's planking videos, read some Cheerful and Winnie logs and I've read the planking tutorials in the MSW data base and I'm still not sure I understand it completely. At any rate, it's time to give it a try. I'll be tiptoeing along so this is going to be slow.

 

The widest, middle bulkheads are 78 mm long from the bottom of the gunport patterns to the false keel. The boxwood planks are 5 mm wide so I will need 14 planks at 5 mm and a garboard plank at 8 mm wide. I used a tick strip to mark these measurements on bulkheads 7 to 10 since they are all 78 mm. 

 

I decided to divide the hull into 3 belts of 5 planks each. I thought having just 2 belts: one with 7 planks and one with 8 but I went with 3. I'm not really sure how you decide how many belts you should have though. I also saw that Chuck has a drop plank at the bow of the Cheerful and the Winnie but I'm not sure how you know whether you need a drop plank either. My guess is that it may be necessary so the planks don't get too narrow at the bow.

 

I took some 1/8" chart tape to divide the hull into 3 belts. It doesn't stick very well to the wood so I Scotch taped the ends once I thought I had a fair run of the tape.

 

Again, I'm not really sure how you determine when you have the tape placed correctly. I just started it in the middle with the upper edge of the tape touching the tick marks 5 planks down from the gunport patterns on the 4 middle bulkheads and I tried to lay it down in a fair run to the bow and stern. I also tried to not make the first strake so narrow at the bow that the planks would be tapered too thin there. I looked at it from different angles and made adjustments to the tape until it looked like it was running fair.

 

Am I going about it correctly? I really don't know. I'm in unknown waters here... 🤔 

 

Tomorrow I will use a planking fan and a tick strip to mark the remaining frames and then line off the port side.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for looking in everyone and thanks for the comments and likes. Cheers!

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by BobG

[VTHokiEE]

5 hours ago, BobG said:

I'm not sure how you know whether you need a drop plank either. My guess is that it may be necessary so the planks don't get too narrow at the bow.

My understanding is that if the planks would become less than half the original width a drop plank should be used to prevent this.

 

5 hours ago, BobG said:

I'm not really sure how you determine when you have the tape placed correctly.

From what I’ve read/seen this is more of an art than a science. You look at the flow of the lines from several directions and see if you think it looks good. When you think it looks good go away from the model for a little while and then come back and see if you still think so. 

 

Good luck!

[glbarlow]

There is no need for a drop plank.  Determining the flow is, as Chuck points out, more art than measurement. I think you’re making that harder by trying it with three belts on this small hull, two is enough. You just look for a smooth flow and sweep of the lines consistent with the sheer. The top line doesn’t have enough sweep at midships and runs too far up the bow to maintain a consistent width of planks top to bottom.  I struggled with this too, you must become one with the ship. 

[Gregory]

Not that I would plank a model like this, but look at all the crazy drop planks in this planking expansion of Cruizer class..

 

Very similar to Speedy/Flirt ..

 

Cruizer_class_

[Chuck]

Those bands as lined off are incorrect.   You have way too much upward sweep at the bow on those belts. Something more akin to this would make life a lot easier.  

 

[BobG]

First off, thanks to everyone who has taken the time to comment on what I have done so far in my rather haphazard attempt at lining off the hull for the first time. This is exactly the kind of feedback is so helpful to me and, hopefully, to others who are trying to learn this planking method. 

 

3 hours ago, glbarlow said:

You just look for a smooth flow and sweep of the lines consistent with the sheer.

 

Thanks, Glenn. I really didn't know this basic concept and it's really helpful. 👍

Edited February 18, 2022 by BobG

[BobG]

2 hours ago, Chuck said:

Those bands as lined off are incorrect.   You have way too much upward sweep at the bow on those belts. Something more akin to this would make life a lot easier.

 

Thank you so much, Chuck, for looking in and commenting on how the bands I laid out are incorrect. The lines that you have superimposed on the photo is extremely helpful to see! I hope you will continue to stop by every now and then and add some words of advice as I try out this planking method. 

 

Glenn suggested that 2 bands instead of 3 might make things easier on a small hull like the Flirt. How do you generally determine how many bands to have when lining off the hull?

 

 

[Chuck]

It doesnt really matter.  I like three bands because its easier to treat each smaller band as a stand alone project to complete.   But its up to you really.

 

Chuck

[smotyka]

Bob, appreciate the detail that your digging into on this model.  I too and attempting to put this model together and did the similar research into the best way to plank the hull as I have taken a look at various methods such as Chuck's. 

 

I got so wrapped up in all of this that I was not getting anything done.

 

I then decided to simply apply the first plank under the gun port pattern per the instructions as I need to learn how to glue, shape and bend the plank.  Baby steps.  After gluing the first plank I can now see all of the imperfections that I have made so far especially on the gun port band.

 

You verbalized exactly what I was concerned about and showed pics - deeply appreciated!  And Chuck's added advise now makes it clear.  When I get back to this step, I'm going to try also.

 

Appreciate your questions and the time taken to provide the pics. 

 

Steve

[BobG]

4 hours ago, smotyka said:

Bob, appreciate the detail that your digging into on this model. 

 

Thanks, Steve. It's my hope that providing a good amount of detail as I go along  will be helpful to others.

 

I want to highlight the steps that were particularly challenging for me as well as my mistakes since my guess is that others may have difficulty in a lot of the same areas that I did. I think it will be most helpful also to actually see how I finally managed to get through these problem areas and to see what I did to try and fix my mistakes. Unfortunately, I think we learn a lot through our mistakes so my build will not be pretty at times but I'm okay with that as long learn something and perhaps do it better the next time.

 

Do you have a build log for your Flirt? If not, it's never too late to start one. I was hesitant to start a log when I was building the Medway Longboat but I finally started one when other builders encouraged me to do so. I got lots of great advice along the way and it helped me stay motivated to finish the build.

 

Thanks for stopping by and good luck with your Flirt build.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by BobG

[smotyka]

Thanks Bob.  I'll get a log going in hopefully 6 weeks due to your encouragement - have an upcoming medical situation to tend too in the meantime.

 

Looking forward to your future Flirt adventures!