What's a good kit for learning rigging?

[Mark m]

I have almost completed the Model Shipways Dory, and am starting their Norwegian Pram.  My third kit will be their Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack.

I'm thinking of getting the NRG half-hull to advance my planking skills.

The Pram and Lobster Smack seem to have fairly simple rigging compared to the more advanced kits.  What would be a good next kit to improve my rigging skills?

[Oldsalt1950]

The MS Armed Virginia Sloop. It has it all, ratlines, cannon, mast, bowsprit. The scale is large enough that you have some room to maneuver and plenty of detail if you wish to add it. It isn't over complicated so you can increase your skills without getting too frustrated.

[allanyed]

Mark,

Good for you on the first builds!   I would consider investing in a couple books as well as vetting which model to buy to be sure of the kit accuracy and some "how to" advice.   A quick start is to look at the build logs and see what the various kits offer.  Check little things such as if the kit offers cheap string instead of miniature rope, realistic looking blocks, realistically scaled belaying pins, accurate belaying points, etc.   Once you have narrowed it down, post here and ask for opinions.  

 

For details on actual rigging, Lees' Masting and Rigging English Ships of War is hard to beat.   A lot of folks recommend Petersson's book Rigging Period Ship Models which unfortunately is limited in scope and gives no information on how to actually do anything. Then again, if you happen to be building a fifth rate vessel from about 1785, it will be very useful.  For actual "how-to" practices, Volume IV of The Fully Framed Model series is helpful even though it is centered around Swan class vessels.  Of course there are hundreds of pieces of great information here at MSW on how members do things that are extremely helpful for both what they have done that works and what they have done that does not work so well.  

Allan

[DennisL]

Hi Mark

I agree with Allan's  points.

As for models to build, I thoroughly enjoyed the Medway Longboat kit from Syren Models.  The scale is large, the  instructions are great with lots of tips and it builds into a very attractive model. Not only for rigging but it is a good way to learn about planking.

My 2 cents.

[ccoyle]

Cutters are good projects for tackling the more advanced masting and rigging found on square-rigged vessels. They typically have only a single mast. so they are not overwhelming for beginners. There are lots of cutter kits to choose from, too. The armed Virginia sloop suggested earlier is not technically a cutter, but it has a similar rig, so it is a good choice as well. Your lobster smack project will have a simple fore-and-aft rig -- if you want to take that type of rig up a notch before taking on a square rig, then try a two- or three-masted schooner. Again, lots of such subjects in kit form to choose from.

[wool132]

You might take a look at either the Nisha or the Erycina kits, both from Vanguard Models.

 

Expensive? Yup. High quality? Very. Worth it? Oh yeah!
 

The details on assembling the rigging in the instruction manuals are a tad sparse but you can make up for that by looking at the Bluenose build by Ed Ku20 starting here, the HMS Speedy build log by DelF starting here, and Dr PR’s topic on Topsail schooner sail plans and rigging here on MSW.

 

Jonathan

[glbarlow]

Detailed books can be overwhelming for many first time builders - while they are a valid resource the best way to learn rigging is to do it.  The build logs noted above, in particular @DelF are an excellent resource, I try to explain as much as I can in my build logs, in particular the Cheerful log linked below in my signature.

 

Cutters and sloops are a nice place to start, they have enough rigging to make it an effort but not too much to overwhelm. The most important thing to do is to get a model with excellent instruction and detailed plans. Many of the cheap kits have neither. Vanguard Models provides both in a manner that separates its kits from all others for beginners. The plans have all you need on what and where to rig, but you do have to know how to seize, belay,  and tie,  which the plans don't cover. The build logs help with that as does the specialty forum for rigging on this site.

 

Although he's not in favor by many on this forum, I learned how to rig my first model, the AVS, using Bob Hunt's practicum - he covers every detail.

[Mark m]

Thanks for all the tips.  I have been learning so much by combing through the massive amount of information on these forums.  It's like drinking from a firehose!

[Mark m]

As a follow-up to this topic on learning more advanced rigging:  I see that Corel has some relatively inexpensive ($100) solid-hull kits such as "Corel SM104 HMS Bounty - Solid Carved Wood Hull Kit" that appear to have fairly complex rigging.

What would I be losing out on if I used one of these as a learning exercise for rigging?

Thanks!

Edited June 15, 2022 by Mark m

[mtaylor]

2 hours ago, Mark m said:

What would I be losing out on if I used one of these as a learning exercise for rigging?

Thanks!

Just time and the purchase price.   It is a good way to learn though rather than using a large expensive kit.  My first rigged model was the old Scottish Maid from AL.   It was just couple of steps (hindsight says "big steps") between that and my next which was the Wasa.  Back then, there was no MSW, so no one could I ask questions to.

[allanyed]

Looking at the model in the kit you mention, I would not pay $1, let alone $100 if I wanted to learn about rigging.  From their ad photo I could not find one block or dead eye on the entire model and the lines look to be thrown on with no rhyme or reason for where they are run.  There appear to be 7 lines made fast on each foreyard yardarm!!!  I think there are much better choices out there.  I am anxious to see other opinions after zooming in on the photo here:

https://modelexpo-online.com/Corel-SM104-HMS-Bounty--Solid-Carved-Wood-Hull-Kit--Scale-1130--Length-13-14_p_3125.html

Allan

Edited June 16, 2022 by allanyed

[mtdoramike]

I disagree with Allan as far as wasted time. To me, any project that furthers your abilities is not wasted. But with that said, I would opt for a ship model kit with the most rigging and learn from there, the most important part is the rigging diagram plan sheets that will accompany the kit. Most of the current kit manufactures have decent to great riggings diagrams, Model Shipways, Artesania Latina is good as well as Mamoli to mention a few. One thing to bear in mind when rigging a tall ship model, there were certain rigging like ratlines and standing rigging that are pretty much standard, But running riggings is a more catchers catch can, meaning they would tie them down where ever it was convenient at the time. They have several Anatomy of a Ship books that are great for detailing parts of ships.  

[ccoyle]

1 hour ago, allanyed said:

I am anxious to see other opinions

 

I agree with Allan. Those kits are on the 'stylized' end of the kit accuracy spectrum -- the rigging in particular is highly simplified. Also, as a beginner, you will find it much easier to take on the myriad number of small elements on a ship model if you steer toward larger scales, e.g. in the 1/48 to 1/64 scale range.  

[allanyed]

5 hours ago, mtdoramike said:

To me, any project that furthers your abilities is not wasted.

I totally agree with you Mike.  If you look closely at the closeups of the model mentioned, you will see there is nothing that will further the abilities of the builder as there is virtually nothing right about the rigging.  Better to start with good information to form good habits and not have to un-learn something.

 

There are indeed a few  good kit brands out there.   If you look at the the most recent page of build logs for kits from 1751-1800 which covers the period for Bounty note the kit brand names and the number of each listed.   Maybe there is a lesson there.

 

Allan

Edited June 16, 2022 by allanyed

[Mark m]

9 hours ago, ccoyle said:

 

I agree with Allan. Those kits are on the 'stylized' end of the kit accuracy spectrum -- the rigging in particular is highly simplified. Also, as a beginner, you will find it much easier to take on the myriad number of small elements on a ship model if you steer toward larger scales, e.g. in the 1/48 to 1/64 scale range.  

Thanks, especially for the suggestion on scale.

[GrandpaPhil]

A cutter or a schooner is a great way

to learn rigging.

 

I will also vouch that a slightly larger scale is easier to learn rigging on.

[Knocklouder]

Hello I need to learn rigging,  I did it once by following  logs, but had no ideal what I was doing, is there a book for rigging  for my time for the period for up to 1500  AD,  for first timeres riggers of course.plus what ever you tell me my son will download it for me. Lol thanks 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Bob M
Yep typos 😒

[Mark m]

11 minutes ago, Bob M said:is there a book for rigging  for my time for the period for up to 1500  AD,  for first timeres riggers of course.

I’m reading this one.  More detailed than I need, and wrong era for you.

 

Perhaps start a separate topic in the forum and others may comment.

 

[Gregory]

11 minutes ago, Bob M said:

is there a book for rigging  for my time for the period for up to 1500  AD

Your best resources for that would probably be The Anatomy of The Ship book.  The Ships of Christopher Columbus

 

Historic Ship Models  might be some help..

 

Finding downloadable references for the period in question might be a challenge...

 

 

[Knocklouder]

Thanks sorry for the interruption  of this topic 

[Gregory]

13 minutes ago, Bob M said:

thanks sorry for the interruption  of this topic 

Not at all..

This was probably a good place to start..

[Roger Pellett]

Like any other aspect of ship modeling there are several aspects to this subject:

 

Learning techniques-  Knots, hitches, splices, serving, etc.

Understanding the technology-  Basic tackles and blocks, deadeyes, spars, etc.

Research - Learning how your particular model should be rigged.

 

All of these of these can be learned from books, or today from books posted on the internet.  Techniques can also be practiced with various sizes of cordage.  Several are much easier to learn with larger diameters of rope.

 

The last two are necessary as  some kit manufacturers tend to be somewhat light handed with accuracy.  All rigging should be functional in the sense that if it were the real thing it would work- no lines to nowhere.

 

Roger