HMS Victory Renovation - Outer Planking Removed

[Steve20]

HMS victory is currently undergoing a £35 million (GBP) renovation and outer planking is being removed to access and replace frames that are damaged by moisture, fungus and pests. Below are a few photos I took a couple of days ago of frames on the starboard side. I believe these date from a renovation carried out in the 1900’s.

[Steve20]

Some more pics:

[Steve20]

The below pics show elements of the bow, keel and stern, which I believe date from the 1800’s and perhaps even earlier.

 

(I've since found out that they date to the time of launch in 1765 - Steve)

Edited May 10, 2023 by Steve20

[Steve20]

Here is the HMS Victory Conservation Management Plan (13 MB pdf) which dates the various parts of the ship.

victory_cmp_volume_01-.pdf

Edited May 7, 2023 by Steve20

[druxey]

Steve; thank you for posting these. Does the general public have access or are you privileged?

[Morgan]

There is a large scaffold like temporary structure covering her sides with viewing platforms at deck levels on her starboard side right now, including lift access. A guide is on hand to answer questions, you can also ask the conservationists questions.

 

There is also now a permanent walkway under the ship on the port side which is where Steve obviously got his hull bottom photos.

 

Steves last photo shows where the old support cradle pads were removed revealing planking that will be done if the oldest on the external hull, although there are also several strakes of ‘top and bottom’ just below main whale, but are obscured by the scaffold.

 

Gary

[Steve20]

Yes, all Victory visitors can view the renovations through the platform built at three different levels and the walkway now goes down to the bottom of the dry dock. I live quite close to the Victory (it’s just a ferry ride across the water) and since the renovations started opening the ship up, I go across every couple of months to see what’s been uncovered. I’ve got a few more pics of the renovations but each of the deck levels exposed are very much a repeat of the one shown above. I do have pics in high resolution if anybody wants a close-up of a particular part. 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Steve20

[Steve20]

The Victory Museum (NMRN) aims to restore the Victory as it was in 1805 at the time of the battle of Trafalgar, so fixtures, fittings, artefacts, décor etc. are probably representative of RN ships at that time.  If anyone needs a pic of a particular area or component (maybe to provide clarification for a model they’re building) let me know and I’ll post the pics here after my next visit.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Steve20

[Steve20]

Middle deck, carpenters walk, Admirals cabin, hold, aft gunports:

 

 

 

 

 

[allanyed]

Steve,

These picture are wonderful.  The smallest details like the inset of horseshoe and dovetail  plate can be seen and are extremely useful pieces of information for any modeler.  

Allan

[Steve20]

For sure Allan, there are many aspects of the ship that would not be of interest to most people and therefore not photographed in detail. On a visit last year, I noticed that the gratings were made with battens that run longitudinal to the ship.

 

For many of the users here on MSW this is probably common knowledge, but it was news to me, so I looked it up in The Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture, 2^nd Edition, 1812. For gratings, battens, and ledges it states the following:

 

GRATINGS. The lattice coverings of the hatchways, which are made with openings to admit air, or light, by cross battens and ledges. The openings should never be so large as to admit the heel of a man’s shoe, as they may otherwise endanger those who pass over them.

BATTENS. ….... Battens for gratings are narrow thin laths of oak.

LEDGES. Oak or fir scantlings used in framing the decks, which are let into the carlings athwartships. The ledges for gratings are similar, but arch or round up agreeable to the head ledges.

 

Below are some pics that show how the gratings are made on Victory. It makes sense now that the heavy, load bearing grating ledges run athwart the ship, whilst the lighter battens thereby must run longitudinal. Most suprisingly, for me anyway, is that the battens are not lapped into the ledges. The battens sit on top of the ledges and filler pieces are placed between them.

 

Sorry if the above is a bit too much but how they built these ships greatly interests me.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Steve20

[Steve20]

Lower deck grating form the Orlop:

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Steve20

[Steve20]

Middle Deck:

Edited May 9, 2023 by Steve20

[Steve20]

Forecastle:

[druxey]

The 'filler' pieces may be a cheat from replacements: the gratings are certainly not original, but their appearance makes them look authentic.

[vaddoc]

The amount of wood in these boats is staggering. A floating forest. Thank you for the photos and the info, very interesting.

[Steve20]

22 hours ago, druxey said:

The 'filler' pieces may be a cheat from replacements: the gratings are certainly not original, but their appearance makes them look authentic.

I’m inclined to agree with you and I note that the gratings on the beakhead appear to be lapped (see pic below) but it would be interesting if someone could state for sure about this.

 

Whatever the case, David Steel’s Elements and Practice of Naval Architecture is considered an authority on the subject and was published when these ships were being built, so as he states that gratings were made with cross-battens of narrow thin laths of oak, then I would use this method on an RN model of this period rather than a lattice of similar shaped cross members as is often found.

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Steve20

[Steve20]

18 hours ago, vaddoc said:

The amount of wood in these boats is staggering. A floating forest. Thank you for the photos and the info, very interesting.

It is staggering and so is the size of the ship when you stand next to it, especially considering that it was a moveable wooden structure, built mostly by human effort (very little machinery), 260 years ago. They estimate that there is 300,000 cubic feet of timber in the ship, and it's mostly held together by wooden treenails and iron bolts that are rods rivetted over washers. The length of the ship is 226ft, displacement 3.500 tons and she carried a crew of 850.

https://www.nmrn.org.uk/hms-victory-conservation-log

The above link to the NMRN gives information on which parts of the Victory are original (i.e. at the 1765 launch) and these include:
Between deck pillars.
Keel and keelson.
Lower deck and Orlop planking.
Stem (some of it).
Many fastenings (bolts, trenails etc.).
Rudder (probably).
Sternpost.
Stern timbers.

 

Other items such as deck beams, guns and jeer capstan were in place at Trafalgar in 1805.

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Steve20

[Roger Pellett]

Where will the replacement timbers come from?

 

 Here in the USA Live Oak that grows in the Southern tier of states has long (since Colonial Times) been prized as a shipbuilding timber.  Old trees can grow to huge dimensions.  Heavy timbers for wooden ship repair can sometimes show up in unlikely places.  Several years ago a stash of Live Oak timbers were found buried near the waterfront at the Boston Navy Yard.  They were used in the repair of the USS Constitution.

 

More recently, Mystic Seaport learned that Live Oak tree trunks damaged by Southern Hurricanes were being dumped in landfills by tree removal companies.  They now have the connections to salvage these.  Visitors to Mystic will see a large pile of big logs at the edge of the parking lot waiting to be used for wooden ship repair projects.

 

Roger

[Steve20]

I've no idea where the replacement timbers will come from, Roger. Lucky they were able to salvage the trunks being dumped in landfills and save them for ship repairs.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Steve20

[RossR]

The US Navy also maintains a forest of white oak in Indiana specifically for use in maintaining the USS Constitution. 

[Gregory]

I heard from somewhere that the forests of Britain were wiped out during the Golden age of sail.

[allanyed]

 

1 hour ago, Gregory said:

I heard from somewhere that the forests of Britain were wiped out during the Golden age of sail.

Hi Gregory,

That seems to be the consensus, but that was 150 years ago.  Today may be a different story, it depends on the article one reads.  One sounds dire  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/27/are-englands-trees-disappearing and another sounds upbeat stating that there are over 120 million oak trees in the UK which "sounds" good.  https://www.actionoak.org/projects/oak-trees-did-you-know#:~:text=The UK has the largest,oak woodlands covering 70%2C000 hectares.   I have no idea if the size of these millions of trees mentioned in the second article are useful for ships, but given time...😀

Allan

Edited May 10, 2023 by allanyed

[Beef Wellington]

1 hour ago, Gregory said:

I heard from somewhere that the forests of Britain were wiped out during the Golden age of sail.

I think you have to be careful here...this seems to be a common mis-perception, especially in the US.  It suggests that somehow ships just kept getting built until suddenly...surprise...there were no more trees left.  While clearly the construction of ships would reduce the supply of specific timbers that require substantial time to replace, and required significant forest management, the impact of other factors were far more impactful in general (urbanization, increasing arable land etc which had been a factor for centuries before the 'golden age' of sail, and continue to be issues today.

 

Who chopped down Britain’s ancient forests? | Aeon Essays

[Ian_Grant]

My jaw dropped when I found this thread. They're removing outer planking? It seems a short while since they spent time and money repainting it in that new ochre tint! I know they are in the midst of a 20-year refit, and I was hoping to cross the pond and see her at the scheduled completion date by which time I'll be in my mid seventies, but this seems like they are going backwards. 🤨

 

I'll have to check for schedule updates. Will try to stay alive in the meantime. 😆

 

Hello again. I checked up. Seems they started a new 15-year refit in 2022, although already about 10 years in to a 20-year one. Now I'll be nearly 80 when they re-rig her. Sigh.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Ian_Grant

[vaddoc]

I googled it, there are 121 million oak trees in the UK, with 1 million in London alone.

It needed 5000 oaks for Victory

The tree starts producing acorns after 40 years!

Oak trees - did you know? | Action Oak

 

[Morgan]

I understand that part of the problem is the past use of laminated timbers, generally Iroko overlain with teak. The Iroko has rotted, whilst the teak hasn’t, meaning it looks good on the outside, but ……

 

The plan now is to go original and use oak, it will still use laminates, but all oak. I’m surprised they aren’t even trying to steam bend properly sized planks, but I gather from a trial video I watched that using thinner strips means it can be laminated over a mould of the individual plank without steaming and built up in the profile shape required.

 

Gary

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Saw this interesting story with a connection to Admiral Nelson ...

 

[Steve20]

29 minutes ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  'Saw this interesting story with a connection to Admiral Nelson ...

 

 

Shame the ship went. Here's a high-res pic her:

Edited May 12, 2023 by Steve20

[Steve20]

I doubt that they would have kept the Foundroyant long, though. Duguay Trouin was a French 74 gun ship launched in 1800 and fought against the British at Trafalgar. She was captured at the battle and entered the Royal Navy as HMS Implacable. After 144 years they decided to get rid of her and offered her to the French, but the French also did not want her, so she was towed out to sea in 1949 and deliberately sunk. Here is a video of it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Steve20