OcCre HMS Victory Limited edition

[modeller_masa]

 

https://occre.com/en/pages/hms-victory

 

The newest HMS Victory kit has arrived. 

- 1/87

- 1,172 mm long

- 999 Limited produciton

- 1,400 EUR = 1,501 USD

 

[BobG]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on the historical accuracy of this model but it is certainly is impressive and the marketing video is outstanding.

[Keith_W]

The market is saturated with so many versions of HMS Victory. It looks as if this one is different to the others in that it is "semi" plank on frame and includes sails. However, historic accuracy is an unknown. The quality of the fittings and wood looks to be excellent. 

 

But ... is there any reason to buy anything other than a Caldercraft Victory apart from price and size? 

[modeller_masa]

2 hours ago, Keith_W said:

any reason

Due to the simplified hull, it looks like the easiest HMS Victory kit under 1/90 scale in my opinion. Hull fairing and planking are really big hurdle for beginners. I'm glad more companies release new kits.

[ChrisLBren]

That model looks terrible in my opinion - a bastardized attempt at accurate construction.  Build the Caldercraft model or Chris's design with Amati if it ever sees the light of day

[Gregory]

Experienced modelers won't be interested,  but there are lots of beginners who will be all over this.

[allanyed]

14 hours ago, BobG said:

I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on the historical accuracy of this model

It's not totally accurate but that may not be that important for some.  I do wonder if there is a market for yet another Victory kit.

Check out the sails, oversize belaying pins and odd looking gratings as they are not realistic but still look nice to many people. The wales are completely wrong but again, it probably does not matter to some builders or any casual observer.

 

10 hours ago, Keith_W said:

The quality of the fittings and wood looks to be excellent. 

Hope we can agree to disagree Keith, but if the pintles and gudgeons are any indication, the fittings may not be very good.  They are hugely out of scale.  For a first rate around 1800 the pintles would be 5 1/2 inches wide (0.06" at 1:87)   Scaling the photos, they look to be closer 0.12" wide, or double what they should be.

 

On the plus side, this kit gives a lot of builders a chance to do a plank on frame model instead of POB.  There is always the opportunity to do some research and replace the things that are not correct.

 

Allan

 

 

[modeller_masa]

 

I cancel my opinion about the difficulty level. 

 

I thought that the kit designers might use smart joints for hull framing.

 

Unfortunately not. The build-log video shows the kit didn't prepare pre-cut beams, which may cause significantly distorted hull fairing, especially when beginners build. 🤔

 

[Morgan]

I don’t understand why they have notched the frames, it is so wrong and is an immediate turn off!  Given the laser cutting used (and price) it would have been more authentic to provide integrated beams and knees which would have been far more authentic.  Those with the skill could have built on this and fully detailed the an authentic deck structure, those less inclined could have gone with the ‘cut and stick’ infill approach.  
 

Gary

[Ogontz]

To each their own I suppose. It appears to me that the European model companies are thinking of themselves as "not complete" unless they offer some version of the Victory. If this type of model interests someone - great! It's not something I would be interested in building bc of the price and the imo odd brass adornments and figurehead among other oddities. Also, I wish they would have offered the kit with the ship as it was when first constructed - with the "balcony style" stern galleries. 

I am ever hopeful that Occre will come out with a series of more modern sailing craft - specifically the J Class of boats used in the America's Cup back in the 20's and 30's. I would expect we won't be seeing any new offerings from Occre for awhile owing to the fact that they must have dropped a bundle in the planning, tooling and manufacture of this new kit.

So, here I sit, working on a Dumas Chris Craft runabout, all the while keeping hope alive.

[Morgan]

Of course cash has nothing to do with this offering, it’s all about the ‘experience’ of building your Victory.  Only 999 kits available, so that is anticipated sales values of GB£1.2m, US$1.6m or €1.4m.

 

Given the plethora of Victory kits on the market I do have to wonder what the driver for this one is 🤣

 

Gary

[chris watton]

25 minutes ago, Ogontz said:

To each their own I suppose. It appears to me that the European model companies are thinking of themselves as "not complete" unless they offer some version of the Victory. If this type of model interests someone - great! It's not something I would be interested in building bc of the price and the imo odd brass adornments and figurehead among other oddities. Also, I wish they would have offered the kit with the ship as it was when first constructed - with the "balcony style" stern galleries. 

I am ever hopeful that Occre will come out with a series of more modern sailing craft - specifically the J Class of boats used in the America's Cup back in the 20's and 30's. I would expect we won't be seeing any new offerings from Occre for awhile owing to the fact that they must have dropped a bundle in the planning, tooling and manufacture of this new kit.

So, here I sit, working on a Dumas Chris Craft runabout, all the while keeping hope alive.

Amati already has a good selection of J Class yacht kits, they have been available for years.

[James H]

I think what we need to understand here is that the shortcomings of this kit are clear to see, but we will see it tackled 'as is', or with any improvements that the builder may choose to introduce. Ultimately, it's the satisfaction of the builder that counts. I'll certainly be following the build.

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

   $1,500 before duties, shipping, and extra stuff to correct or upgrade seems steep - as well as (my guess) the 2 - 3 years (or more ... unless retired and with a lot of available time) one might take from soup to nuts.  But is money is plentiful and the desire is there - why not?  There are many who take on the Victory, but I wonder how many get finished - and in what fashion.  Hopefully a builder won't use nearly white rigging line for the ratlines and deadeye lacings.  'Always thought models so completed looked odd, as contemporary artwork and 19th c. photos show dark lines for all the standing rigging on sailing vessels.  OK, someone used tan line on the present-day Victory on exhibit ... couldn't say why.

 

  

[catopower]

My main beef with OcCre is why they can not or will not create a kit with any attempt at showing something as simple, but as obvious (to me, anyway) as deck camber.

I can't think of any other manufacturer that ignores this feature of sailing ships. 🤔

 

 

 

Well, I'm sure it will be fun build to many.

 

 

[Roger Pellett]

$1500+ buys a lot of tools and books!

[Auger]

3 minutes ago, Roger Pellett said:

$1500+ buys a lot of tools and books!

I like Occre. But agree.

[JeffT]

I'm sure there will be 999 happy modelers out there.

[catopower]

2 hours ago, Roger Pellett said:

$1500+ buys a lot of tools and books!

And, it's $1700 on OcCre's online shop.

[Keith_W]

12 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hope we can agree to disagree Keith, but if the pintles and gudgeons are any indication, the fittings may not be very good.  They are hugely out of scale.  For a first rate around 1800 the pintles would be 5 1/2 inches wide (0.06" at 1:87)   Scaling the photos, they look to be closer 0.12" wide, or double what they should be.

 

Of course! That is a fair observation, and it was something I missed when I looked at the video. Thank you for pointing that out. 

 

I for one would love to see more French ships on the market. We have plenty of British and Spanish ships. But there is no Bucentaure or Redoubtable. 

[Cold_Fire]

On 11/6/2023 at 4:36 PM, modeller_masa said:

 

I cancel my opinion about the difficulty level. 

 

I thought that the kit designers might use smart joints for hull framing.

 

Unfortunately not. The build-log video shows the kit didn't prepare pre-cut beams, which may cause significantly distorted hull fairing, especially when beginners build. 🤔

 

I don't understand how a 1400+ euros retail price doesn't include budget for lasercut beams and structure. They just forgot about decks curved shapes, placed many oak strips inside a very nice box, and they think this justifies the price.

[N80FTY]

I was looking at getting this. But as far as I know the Caldercraft is the most accurate from what I've read so far. As for the OcCre in my opinion seeing as the hull is open, they should have made it with all the decks and so on in it as its an open plan to view all the insides. I would have bought it then with no problems. It just looks half complete with just part of the hull complete.

 

I am looking at the Amati too, but I'm not sure how accurate that will be or when it will be released.

[Thunder]

If you are going to do frames at least make it look something like. Those frame spacings would probably be ok for a merchant man but no ship of war had spacing like that.

[Thunder]

Always concerns me, with regards to attention to detail, when the kit company does not realise what way the flags would be pointing when under sail!

[Gregory]

8 hours ago, Thunder said:

Always concerns me, with regards to attention to detail, when the kit company does not realise what way the flags would be pointing when under sail!

I suspect the target demographic doesn't know the difference..  😁

[modeller_masa]

6 hours ago, Gregory said:

target demographic

That was me 3 months ago.

[rmccook]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:58 AM, allanyed said:

It's not totally accurate but that may not be that important for some.  I do wonder if there is a market for yet another Victory kit.

Check out the sails, oversize belaying pins and odd looking gratings as they are not realistic but still look nice to many people. The wales are completely wrong but again, it probably does not matter to some builders or any casual observer.

 

Hope we can agree to disagree Keith, but if the pintles and gudgeons are any indication, the fittings may not be very good.  They are hugely out of scale.  For a first rate around 1800 the pintles would be 5 1/2 inches wide (0.06" at 1:87)   Scaling the photos, they look to be closer 0.12" wide, or double what they should be.

 

On the plus side, this kit gives a lot of builders a chance to do a plank on frame model instead of POB.  There is always the opportunity to do some research and replace the things that are not correct.

 

Allan

 

 

 

Would it really be authentic if it showed up perfectly built and no need for reworking? I mean, what's more authentic than a British warship that turns out from the shipyard with questionable construction technique, incorrect fittings and poor quality materials? They should include a scale Admiralty inspector, with little notes stuffed in his back pocket looking the other way and then you can call any problems with hatches, sails and pins authentic!

 

 

On 11/6/2023 at 8:44 AM, Gregory said:

Experienced modelers won't be interested,  but there are lots of beginners who will be all over this.

 

$1700 kit price and 6,000 pieces... it's not for beginners. 

[Gregory]

16 hours ago, rmccook said:

$1700 kit price and 6,000 pieces... it's not for beginners. 

We know that, but lot's of beginners want to build Victory or Constitution because the look of the sails and all of those guns is what they want over their fireplace.  Most of them never come to MSW for our sage advice.  They don't want to spend 10 years learning how to build ship models and finally realizing " why did I ever think that kit was a good idea ? " .

 

 

 

[scrubbyj427]

As a moderate to advanced builder You can spend $1700 dollars on the full Winchelsea build and have a fully authentic model of an English frigate that is not only authentic but perfectly to scale and almost indistinguishable from a contemporary model or you could buy the Indefatigable kit from vanguard for even less than $1700 and still have a better more authentic scale model that accurately represents a 44 gun heavy frigate. As a new builder I’d be looking to cut my teeth on sub $500 models that I wont sweat if they turn out poorly. This model makes no sense to me at that price.

[rmccook]

12 hours ago, scrubbyj427 said:

As a moderate to advanced builder You can spend $1700 dollars on the full Winchelsea build and have a fully authentic model of an English frigate that is not only authentic but perfectly to scale and almost indistinguishable from a contemporary model or you could buy the Indefatigable kit from vanguard for even less than $1700 and still have a better more authentic scale model that accurately represents a 44 gun heavy frigate. As a new builder I’d be looking to cut my teeth on sub $500 models that I wont sweat if they turn out poorly. This model makes no sense to me at that price.

Well, again, it’s definitely not for a beginner. And it’s pretty clearly marketed as for someone with “expert” ability.  Having a wider tolerance for authenticity doesn’t mean you’re necessarily a beginner - there’s probably a big part of the model ship market who just enjoys the challenge of putting together a complex project. Good for them, and good for OcCre if they can get $1700 out of them.
 

And if there is some hypothetical random person with $1700 burning a hole in their pocket who sees that kit as their entry point into model ship building… well, someone was going to separate them from their $1700 might as well be OcCre. If they impulsively spend THAT much money on a model ship kit they have no experience doing anything like, it doesn’t sound like they were going to be much of an asset to the community anyway - they were just as likely to stumble into a sporting good store and buy a set of golf clubs or something. Frankly, if it keeps a model ship kit company in business seems fine to me. 
 

But I also think what’s really going on, if you read the marketing material, the justification for the price seems to be the “exclusivity” of it - the limited quantity and the numbering of each model, accompanied by a coin, etc. I find people who are interested in that sort of thing completely mysterious, but there are plenty of people who LOVE the idea. 

 

It doesn’t appeal to me, for a variety of reasons, but mainly the open hull, but I think it’s for people who have enjoyed OcCre kits before, want a complex challenge and are motivated by the collectors item shtick.