Table Saw Hand Safety

[Chuck Seiler]

...and while we are on the subject, don't forget the safety glasses.

[rtropp]

Geoff

Thanks, it has helped me considerably since I have never used these types of power tools. One of the reasons I support and contribute to MSW is to make sure this community continues to be a meeting place where I can learn from the more experienced... and I have found that there is a heck of a lot of experience out there.

Richard

[druxey]

The Saw Stop is quite different to a splitter. The former keeps the kerf (slot) made by the blade open beyond the blade. The Saw Stop (Google this to see it demonstrated) is an electronically controlled brake that instantly stops the blade spinning should it touch anything soft and conductive. It can only be fitted to full-size saws, not a Byrnes saw.

[rtropp]

Druxey

That looks like a terrific device. I found the site of the company that makes them. But, as you say, they are not for miniature machines. I don't use large equipment but if their hype is accurate, it's hard to imagine not using one of them.

Richard

[src]

Richard,

There has been some great advice given to you and every one here. In my opinion probably the most important safety tool out there is the one on your shoulders. If you are the least bit unsure or uncomfortable about what you are doing stop and ask yourself why, if you dont know ask somebody - a habit you have already started here.

One of the commenters here brought up kick backs - They are frightening when they happen and they happen so fast you cant believe it - blink of an eye fast. On second all is well in your world, the next your on the ground doubled over in pain. I am fortunate, I have never been hurt by the couple I have had in my 30+ years as a carpenter. But, I remember a guy when I was in my early 20's who ended up  in surgery to remove a piece of oak from his gut from a kick back. He was cross cutting a board down and left the smaller part between the blade and the fence, it caught the blade and shot back like a bullet.

 

Even a simple hobby knife can send you to the hospital. There is a builder here who has/had nerve damage to their hand from a simple slip. Also since I havent seen it mentioned here yet, look up feather boards, they can be your best friend for some operations. Not only are they a safety device but can improve the quality and accuracy of your cut.

 

Well, not trying to scare you, just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

 

After all that - enjoy this great hobby and be safe.

Sam

[michael mott]

 

One of the commenters here brought up kick backs - They are frightening when they happen and they happen so fast you cant believe it - blink of an eye fast. On second all is well in your world,

Sam your comment reminded me of a kickback many years ago, it was a small piece of maple trim for an exhibit the size was approx 1/4 x 1/4 with a slight bevel to create a wedge shaped length about 18 inches long.

 

I always stand slightly to the side of the line of the blade and the blade caught this piece and shot it across the shop I heard it hit something on a bench about 10 feet away. I went over to retrieve it, and noticed that it was laying in front of a tin of black paint which was now leaking onto the bench. I was amazed by the power of this small bit of wood to puncture a hole in the side of this gallon of paint, but I was in for an even bigger surprise... when I went to pick it up I tipped over the tin thankfully the lid was on the stick had penetrated right through the tin and was sticking out the other side!

 

I thanked God that there had not been anybody in the line of fire of that stick it would have done the same thing to them.

 

Michael

[src]

Micheal, good point about standing to the side, its such an unconscious habit I forgot all about it.

 

I suspect most everybody who has been around a table saw for any length of time has similar stories too. I was once cutting a miter in a cabinet end panel to mate up with the face frame on a right tilting saw (blade tips into the fence) the waste got caught up between the fence and blade and shot back 10-15 feet where it embedded itself into the sheetrock wall. Looked like Robbin Hood was practicing his archery on the wall. Had I not been standing to the side I would have been the one going to the hospital. 

 

Both stories illustrate the need to be aware of what you are doing and also never allow yourself or anyone else to stand in "The Danger Zone" behind the blade.

 

Sam

[moreplovac]

I have 10" portable table saw; about year ago i paid my dues to the "saw" god or goddess (don't know yet) in amount of right thumb nail due to leak of concentration while using this powerful (and very useful) tool. Friendly doctor in ER cleared rest of the nail left by the saw. Luckily there were no bones damage, tissue and nail recovered OK in about 8 months. Since that eye-opener accident i have made several push stick and push boards in different size and shape but one of the most useful addition to my saw is cross-cut sled (here is the link to some of available videos how to make one:

). 

I made portable version of cross-cut sled for my Proxxon mini table saw and bunch of mini-size push sticks and boards. Anyhow, don't be afraid of using this tool but be very, very careful. 

Regards. 

[mij]

This is my foot pedal off switch I always use for my bench saw and lathe.

 

[rtropp]

Singidunum,

Thanks for the video. by any chance do you have pictures of the actual slide and push sticks you made for the Proxxon?

 

Mij,

I had not thought of a foot switch for the saw, lathe or mill. I will be standing and could not see myself balancing on one foot with the other perched over the switch. Hmmm.. I have been thinking of the switch as kill switch, i.e., taking your foot off would stop the machine. Is it a "click" type that turns on and off by depressing rather than keeping it on with constant pressure? If so, what model are you using.

 

By the way folks, all your contributions have been extremely helpful. I should be receiving my Byrnes Saw in the next few days and will review all of this before starting.

 

Richard

[mij]

Hi Richard

 

The footswitch is a Proxxon FS 476112, cost £17.04, $28.12.

You press the footswitch down and then turn on the power to your machine.

To stop your machine, release the pressure from the footswitch.

I stand all the time with no problem.

 

mij

[src]

Singidunum, Richard

Cross cut sleds are one of the best additions you can make for any table saw. Far superior to a miter guage. One thing to watch out for Richard is the outfeed end (the end closest to you as you work) The blade is exposed unless you add a block of wood there. I am off to work at the moment, if nobody gets a picture up sooner I will post something tonight showing the back of my rather crude sled for my Proxon.

Sam

[rtropp]

Thanks Sam,

[moreplovac]

tropp, 

currently i don't do any of ship modelling, almost all of my ship building tolls are in 

boxes, in the storage, waiting for my new work area to be completed. At the priority scale projects around and inside of the house are rated 10 and ship modelling is, unfortunately at the number of -4. For time being, I will put a picture of my regular size table saw sled. Once i have all project done i will get my ship building tools out of the storage, including mini sled for Proxxon. Til then i will drool on building logs of other members. 

 

 

 

[rtropp]

 

Singidunum,

thanks for the pictures. I wanted to see that ledge that blocks the blade after the cut. Looks like a simple way to add safety.

 

My saw was delayed by our recent weather. Atlanta was locked in. But, I expect it to arrive today or tomorrow. Boy am I looking forward to that.

 

 

Thanks,

Richard

[moreplovac]

Here are two more pictures.

 

Regards, 

[src]

Richard,

here is my very crude sled for my Proxon. In the second picture you can see what I mean about the blade exiting out the back side. Its very easy to leave your thumb in the path of the blade as it exits. I have plans to make a new sled in the somewhat near future. My thought is to extend the base back several inches to extend the rails and to add some additional material to kep the blade buried on the back end to prevent "Phalange Modification Syndrome" Perhaps a stop also for over travel.

 

Also if you (or anyone) build one for the Proxon, extend the rails on the backside. It gets a little sloppy and wobbly towards the end of the travel.

 

 

 

 I used Polycoabonate for the base and Polyethylene  for the rails,, mainly because we have lots of scrap at the shop I could dig out of the trash. In the past I have used maple for the rails and 1/2-3/4" melamine coated MDF for the base.

 

Hope this helps you or somebody.

Sam

 

Edit: I see leaving myself logged in and not updating my screen leaves me somewhat behind.    Singidunum thats a nice little handle on your sled. 

Edited January 31, 2014 by src

[moreplovac]

src, i put that little handle as additional protection in case i forgot to move my thumb away when blade is exiting the sled. Now i can press thumb on the handle side while pushing the sled. Keep your eyes opened and concentrate completely on the saw while doing cuts. On one of the previous pictures i posted you can see fully recovered left thumb - that's the guy who paid ultimate price of lost nail to the saw god (or goddess) 

 

 

[rtropp]

My saw arrived yesterday evening.

I think my first project will be to build a sled and a couple of push sticks.

I appreciate the design information

Richard.

[src]

Singidunum, Yes the God(dess) of cutting tools is a very demanding and jealous god, it only take a second of inattention. I had a trim router with a 1"dia morticing bit in it take a nibble out of my left ring finger. Like you I was extremely lucky and everything grew back more or less normal. You can only see it if I point it out. The guys at work had great fun in the days after asking me to "Give 'em a hand" and could I please help them "Finger this problem out" Life in a theming shop......

Sam

 

Richard, that sounds like a great first project.

 

Sam

[mtaylor]

Richard,

 

Think also about some featherboards similar to these:  http://www.micromark.com/featherboard-and-high-fence-attachment-set,7586.html They go a long way to helping to keep fingers out of the blade as well as kickback prevention.

 

Another accessory is make a zero-clearance plate for ripping blanks.  Not necessary but nice to have.

[rtropp]

Does a featherboard need to be next to the blade as shown in the Micromark ad or can it be a little behind it. I am thinking that when ripping 1/16" wide stock for planks, there would not be much room between the blade and the fence.

 

Richard

[mtaylor]

I can't speak for others, but my featherboard is on one side of the blade (where the plank is coming off) and the fence is one the other.  I move the feedstock and fence to the featherboard for cutting planks.  I've done it the other way as you described and it works well also.  I just like having the plank come off the blade without anything next to it.  Oh... forgot... I put a piece of thin brass in the zero clearance plate to guide the plank away when the leading end gets to the rear of the blade.

[Dan Vadas]

Never operate the saw after having alcohol - even one beer or one glass of wine.

 

But, but, but ..... I'd never get ANYTHING done after lunch   . I just get MORE careful.

 

Serious now. I've read some comments about NEVER crosscutting using a Mitre Gauge and the Fence. There is a simple and safe way to do this - I use it when cutting multiple lengths to the same size. See pics below :

 

 

 

Simply use a piece of planking or similar that is about 10% wider than the piece to be cut. Place this against the Fence, set up the piece to be cut hard against it, align to your cut mark by moving the fence, then REMOVE the spacer piece and cut. Being that much wider than the piece being cut, even if the blade catches a corner of the piece it won't jam against the fence and get spat out.

 

For the next piece replace the spacer, set the piece to be cut against it, REMOVE the spacer and cut again. ETC, ETC, ETC.

 

BTW - you may notice I've CA glued a strip of wood to the edge of the Byrnes Saw's fence. This is set at virtually zero clearance from the Bed to enable me to cut VERY thin stock - down to a couple of thousandths of an inch. The Byrnes Saw's fence has a fair bit more clearance from the Bed, and very thin pieces can slide under it.

 

  Danny

[mtaylor]

Danny,

 

That's a great idea about the zero clearance on the bed/fence.  The MM saw (and I'm sure others) have the same problem.  You just gave us the answer.

[rtropp]

Great tips,

Mark,

do you think you could post a photo of your set up with fences and brass splitter. Sounds like something I would like to replicate.

 

Dan,

is the strip of wood CA'd to the fence at the same height as the fence? Do you think it could be taller?

 

I guess the first thing is to wax the table. I picked up some "Kit" brand carnauba car wax for that. wondered if there was anything special I should consider before using it.

 

Also, I took some pictures as I was unpacking, not sure if I should post them here or in a fresh topic.

 

Thanks

Richard

Edited February 2, 2014 by rtropp

[Dan Vadas]

is the strip of wood CA'd to the fence at the same height as the fence? Do you think it could be taller?

 

 

It was just a piece I had lying around, about the same thickness as the fence. There's no reason it couldn't be taller.

 

  Danny

[mtaylor]

Richard,

 

I'll do it the next time I set up the saw for planks.  I use the setup as per the photo in the link.

[robnbill]

I have a fairly complete woodshop. One tool that has been in the shop for well over 20 years was a 10" Ryobi Table Saw. Recently I have been retooling getting ready for my next build which will be a scratch verison of the Brig Eagle. As a result I was left with either buying extensive parts to retune the old table saw or buy a new one. Looking at table saw reviews, I was drawn to the Sawstop saw. Not only was it a well made 10" table saw, but it also contained the safety stop.

 

I have been working with table saws all of my life yet it still is the machine I feel has the largest risk in my shop. I ALWAYS watch what and how I do around the saw yet I still have had my share of kickbacks and other near misses over the years. Anything I can do to make the saw safer is desirable. Having a saw that operates smoothly and accurately is paramount, but adding the safety of the blade stop makes this, for me, a no brainer.

 

As others have mentioned, there are many videos on YouTube of how the saw works and how quickly it reacts.

 

When a finger touches the blade, while under operation, a spring sends the aluminum block flying into the blade. This reacts quicker than your car's airbag. This stops the blades spinning and uses the spin of the blade to withdraw the blade below the table level. The blade makes a fraction of a revolution before it is over and the blade safely out of the way. There is actually a You Tube demonstration where a user slung a sausage into the blade quickly like a hand would in a kickback. The sausage was cut, but just barely. Certainly if it had been a real hand it would have saved the digits.

 

If the Sawstop is tripped it is an easy 5 minute replacement of the stop cartridge and a new blade. Woodcraft, where I bought the saw, said given the stress the stop puts on a blade, they would not recommend repairing the blades for reuse, which is theoretically possible. 

 

The saw itself is very solid, well made, and still has the normal cabinet saw safety featured such as the riving knife, and a normal blade protector, and efficient dust control system for both below and above the blade.  It comes with zero inserts and operates smoothly enough that it should allow very thin cuts to be done safely.

 

All of this in itself does not take the place of being extremely vigilant in using a table saw. However, this does greatly increase the likelihood that should an accident occur, it will be mitigated as much as possible. All of that said, the saw is still being put together in my shop but I am looking forward to working with it and reporting back.

[src]

A basis rule of safety when handling a table saw, mill, lathe etc.  Do not wear gloves or a ring. No loose sleeved shirts.  These tools can be dangerous. when you do not follow the rules and common sense.

David B

Do not wear gloves or a ring. No loose sleeved shirts.

Do not wear gloves or a ring. No loose sleeved shirts.

Do not wear gloves or a ring. No loose sleeved shirts.

Do not wear gloves or a ring. No loose sleeved shirts.

Cant repeat that one enough!!!!

Think of putting your hand/shirt etc into a rose bush and pulling back HARD. That blade is going to grab those gloves, shirt, pony tail, whatever and go to town on you.  

 

A 40 tooth blade at 3500 RPM is somewhere in the neighborhood of 2300 razor sharp knifes gobbeling up irreplaceable fingers PER SECOND.

Nope, Do not wear gloves or a ring. No loose sleeved shirts.

 

Not trying to scare you out of using a very productive and SAFE tool - with the right respect, but few weeks ago we had a guy at work remove part of the pad of his thumb on the table saw. He reached around the blade with his left hand to retrieve some cut off and brushed his thumb across the blade. It happened so fast he really didnt realize what he had done at first. Of course his first mistake was removing the blade guard. Had he been wearing gloves he would have mangled, at best, his thumb. More than likely some fingers would have been mangled or amputated also.

 

As others have said, your best defense is common sense.

 

Sam