Landlubber Mike

Hey Carl, not sure if you already got your model into the bottle or finished it. I got my model into the bottle last night and raised the masts. I need a little more time tonight to arrange the sails a little better and she will be done. It was getting late, and I didn't want to make any mistakes from being tired or otherwise rush it. I'll try to post my log tonight, but if I can't get to it, I just wanted to pass along a couple of tidbits. The insertion process is very stressful! First, I couldn't get the rear mast folded down due to the way that I ran the rigging. For some reason, the jib staysail (the inner one) was restricting the mast from fully lowering. I ended up having to cut the line from the top of the main mast, tied that line (on which the jib staysail was) to one of the spars, and ran a separate line from the top of the main mast to the exit hole. So, make sure your masts can be fully folded down. Once that issue was resolved, I tried to figure out a better tool to insert it into the bottle than the string technique the kit calls for. The model is too heavy for the string technique in my experience (or it needs perfect execution to work). I ended up taking a piece of annealed copper wire, bent it to the same configuration as the other metal piece, and then taped it to the handle. When the ship was in the bottle, I cut the tape and pulled out both halves of the tool. The bottle opening is incredibly tight. I filed down the inside bottom edge of the bottle to help push it in. Even then, it required heavier pressure to insert than I was expecting. It was that tight even with the fact that I had sanded off the keel bottom since I added sea to the bottle. Once inside the bottle, I used the insertion tool and other tools to pull the masts up and position the sails. Be careful to do it slowly, and watch for any bent masts, The top of my main mast was bent somehow through the process, which was a little tricky to straighten out. The bottle is pretty narrow inside, making any tool work pretty tricky. The key I think is to make sure the ship is firmly glued to the bottom of the bottle so that you can pull the masts up. Anyway, don't mean to scare you or anything, just wanted to make sure that you were prepared. I'll let you know when I get my log up, but otherwise, let me know if you have any questions.

Great work Joe. You and Timmo are married to wise women. My wife stays away from me when I get frustrated during what I explain is a relaxing hobby

Last summer, I ordered one of the Euromodel figureheads from Euromodel for my Lyme build. They were incredibly courteous, and shipped it out the same day before they went on an extended summer holiday. Impeccable service and very nice people. I am really looking forward to building the FWZP in the future (which is sitting on my shelf) in part because of their service - their kits are also beauties themselves too!

Beautiful work. I've always thought the Niagara was the perfect ship to add full sails to. Your work is fantastic!

Looks fantastic Nils. I'm glad you went with full sails - you've convinced me to try full sails on my Pegasus as well.

Thanks Hamilton for that link. Carl, I had the same experience with the insertion tool that the guy in the thread above had as well. I'm thinking about other alternatives like blue-tac or something else.

Great choices Joe. You'll definitely do a fantastic job on any of those kits for sure. I have the Charles Morgan kit. It's a nice kit with detailed plans, and as John's build shows, it makes for a very nice model. I'm looking forward to building it one day as something different from a war ship. No fiddly cannons to deal with, but seven whaleboats and lots of interesting whaling-related items to build instead. Some of the kit's included pieces are not very well done though - I think you'll find that you'll need to scratch quite a bit, as John shows on his log. Otherwise, I think it's a great kit and it's nice that the ship is available to see up in CT. I'm planning to eventually do mine in full sail, as I think that would really make the model look magnificent if I can pull it off. I think the Niagara would be another beautiful ship to do in full sail too. The nice thing about the Niagara is that you can just buy the plans if you are planning on replacing the kit wood. Constitution is another nice one. My wife thought my Badger at 2' or so in length was big, and raised her eyebrows when I said my current builds are around 3' long. I can only guess the reaction if I told her my next build would be 4' in length Have you taken a look at the Euromodel kits? They are a bit pricier than the other kits you are looking at, but in terms of plans and kit components, they are really nice kits. I managed to get the Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde off eBay for a steal, and it's an incredible kit. What I like is that the kit plans give you enough information to add lots of extra details to your build. There are also detailed practicums that are available for free to help one along. I'm saving this kit for last after my other kits to get my skill level up to really do it justice. Looking forward to whatever you decide!

Looking great Joe. You're moving along quickly but with excellent results. You're going to need to start planning your next build soon

Really incredible work Ian. Thank you for the tutorial. Even more impressive when considering how small these parts are! I should have paid more attention in math class

Igor, your Atlantic looks fantastic. Very impressive. Carl, I tend to agree with Igor that if I did a ship in a bottle again, I would try scratching it. The Amati kit is nice in that the photo etch pieces are easy to work with, but I think the masts and spars are one area where having custom pieces that are more 3-dimensional without the big holes would make for a nicer model. I thought about replacing them, but figured that I wanted the experience to see how the whole process of inserting the model into the bottle worked first before tinkering with such critical parts.

Take a look at my log here beginning at page 15: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7267-hms-pegasus-by-landlubber-mike-amativictory-models-scale-164/page-15 What I did was pre-build the hatches, then ran the planking to stop short of the hatches fore and aft, and ran them alongside the hatches athwartships. Then, having built the hatches slightly oversized, I sanded them back carefully to fit the opening in the planking. Once the deck is complete, I will finish the hatches and glue them. That being said, I created custom-sized planks for the deck, making it easier to take this approach. It might be less feasible depending on the proportion of the hatches vis-a-vis the width of the kit planks. For my Badger build, I took the approach of planking the deck, cutting out the holes for the hatches, then gluing the hatches onto the planking. While the approach I took on my Pegasus looks cleaner and is more accurate historically, frankly, once the deck is busy with all the deck items, the difference in the two approaches won't be as apparent.

Hi Carl, looks great. I forgot about the flag - I need to add that to my build as well. I've seen people use painters silicone caulk, clay and other similar materials. I think they make a snake of it, put it in the bottle, heat it, and then push a plug into the "sea" to leave a depression for the model. I ended up taking a different route because I didn't have the foresight to build a similar plug early in the build. So instead, I am using "Water Effects" from Vallejo - Atlantic Blue: http://www.vallejo-farben.de/water-stone/page/f10.html I glued the base in the bottle, then using a tiny putty knife with an extended handle, I dropped scoops of the Water Effects into the bottle, which has the consistency more of a thick paint than anything. It was pretty easy to work into waves. The big pain of it was then cleaning up the sides of the bottle where some of the material got on it. The whole process took me hours. I built up the sea around the base, and when it dries, I'm going to dry brush some green on it as well as some white for the spray coming off the boat. I'm not sure how it's all going to come out. Hopefully I built the sea around the base enough that when I seat the model on the stand, it looks like the water is against the boat. What I may do is drop some more right onto the base when I'm about to put the ship in the bottle, but at that point, I really will only have one shot to get the boat in and on the base properly. I found that the Water Effects takes a while to dry inside the bottle. I might use a hair dryer or something to speed things up, as it's still pretty viscous a week after putting it in. I'll let you know how it all goes.

Jason's post reminds me that one thing you might want to consider when planning your planking run is to butt the planking against the hatches. It makes for a clean look, though it might be tough to butt the planks against the sides of the hatches if you aren't cutting your own planks.

I have to echo what SpyGlass said. I spent the time to reinforce the center line of my Pegasus and am very glad that I did. It didn't take much - just a few small pieces as you can see in my log. Adding the pieces will also help maintain the camber of the deck as you start planking it.

Nice progress. I ended up just planking the area under the fore hatch - I don't think you'll see much if any of the rest of the planking, but probably a little laziness on my end as well went into it. Good practice though. Just out of curiosity, what wood are you using for the planking? It looks like walnut, when I think the kit would have you use tanganyika.

Looks great Carl. I've been working on my Hannah the last few nights as well, and finally finished the rigging last night. I have to touch up some of the painted areas, but otherwise the ship itself is good to go. I still need to wait for the "sea" in the bottle to dry and harden, at which time I'm hoping to paint some highlights for the water and the foam around the ship. If you don't mind me asking, did you use the cauterize technique to attach the lines? I was really skeptical of the holding power of doing that, so I went with knots and glue. Also, have you tried the insertion tool yet? It's very fiddly. I'm a bit nervous about getting it into the bottle, especially with the sea that I inserted. I'm also wondering how easy it's going to be to get the masts upright and spars straight, and then tie off the two running ends. To say that the bottle opening is tight is a big understatement.

Thanks Eamonn, this is an effective technique and your results look great. Did you consider pre-treating the nails with liver of sulphur before installation? Just wondering, as I'm considering adding nail heads to my build but didn't know what the solution would do to the surrounding wood.

Tryworks came out really nice Bruce. The color for the bricks looks really good.

Looking great Bill. That's going to look amazing in that case! I don't know what I'm more jealous of - your woodshop or the fact that you don't have to do the DC commute any longer

I would definitely use a mask when working with the MDF. The dust bothered me a little when I faired the bulkheads, particularly when I did my rough sanding with a Dremel. After reading stories about wood dust on here, I am taking a lot more precautions with my health.

Hi Glenn, thanks for looking in on my build. Sorry to respond so late - I was out of town on a family vacation, and the family brought home a nasty cold so I've had my hands full with a sick household. For the hatch coamings, I am following TFFM (The Fully Framed Model). The author says that the coamings frame consisted of the two pieces that ran fore and aft (the "coamings") and the two cross-pieces that ran athwartships (the "head ledges"). Essentially, the head ledges look like a "T" and the coamings look like an upside down "T". Looking at your Revised Gratings PDF, the side views in the second set of diagrams looks correct to me (assuming those are meant to show the "coamings." Note, however, that the plan view of the second set of diagrams is not correct - the head ledges, as a "T", should extend across the entire width and cover the coamings (hopefully that makes sense). If you really want to be 100% authentic, TFFM says that the ends of the coamings that join the head ledges have "half-lap joints that are tailed." TFFM goes on to say that "a tailed joint is angled somewhat like half of a modern dovetail, but is sloped in two planes." At 1:64 scale, I wasn't about to worry about that kind of detail. You can see my coamings in the second picture in the post of my log linked below (sorry, for some reason I can't seem to upload the picture directly to this post) - this is the head-on view of the head ledges: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/7267-hms-pegasus-by-landlubber-mike-amativictory-models-scale-164/?p=248121 Hope that helps. Good luck with your Pegasus - it's a fun build, especially with all the fellow Swan class builders on here and the wealth of materials out there to help you improve on an already impressive kit (the TFFM series, the NMM plans, etc.).

Looking great Carl. I'm at the rigging and attaching sails stage myself. I'm not a big fan of the included sails, as I would have preferred material that was pure white rather than material with lines. I might try substituting silkspan or modelspan, but I'm wondering if they will look really wrinkled when folded for insertion into the bottle.

Nice update Ian - your Unicorn is coming together very nicely. Your decision to open up the waist worked out very nicely. Too bad the stove will be a little more hidden, but you and your fans know it is there.

Really great build Peter, wow! Congratulations on your very fine work. You definitely set the bar high for the rest of us Swan class builders.

Looking great Frank. You're a master at weathering techniques.