michael mott

John, yes I was very happy to hear from Roger. Dan, I just make time and my wife is very understanding, I do all the maintenance and building and do the dishes. I did not get much sleep last night because I was out putting wood in the stove every 2 hours, a better wood stove would be good. Pete thanks and welcome. Ed, Thanks for looking in, The method will be proved one way or another, your own dedication to research and accuracy has been one of the things that has inspired me to have a go at making an accurate model of a real existing classic boat. I am looking forward to finding out a number of various sizes and distances from Roger. I am particularly interested in the sizes of the frames, beam width, free board and the shape of the stern under the waterline. One of the things that I am most interested in regarding the build, is bending the frames inside the ribbands rather than over a solid form., I might have to pre bend some but I will find out soon enough. Roger informed me that the planks are affixed with iron nails, so copper will work on the model as a substitute. It will be interesting to see if the nails are bent or were fixed with roves. Tom, Yes I agree good and bad but I have not given up hope of hearing from the owner of Floss yet, the good news is that the hulls are identical and were built at the same time, the only difference being the engines, there does seem to be a good deal of info about the Buffalo as well. The engine will certainly be a bit of a challenge but I can be like a "dog with a bone" sometimes. Regarding a visit to the real boats it is on the other side of the country and travel here is not cheap, it would definitely make a great holiday destination next summer though. Michael

Mick I think the red looks good. I have noticed that the dark colours show up minor imperfections in surface finishes more than light colours, so a dark primer is best for doing the fine finish sanding. Michael

Well I did not get to work on any models today see my post about Maria. However I had a wonderful conversation this afternoon with a Roger Dyment who is the owner of Skipjack the sister to Floss, the boats are identical except for the engines, and since i have not heard from the owner of Floss I think I will be building her sister. Roger told me that he would be happy to give me any assistance, and take photographs of the hull as she is out of the water for winter. Roger told me that about 70% of the hull timber is original, and although the Buffalo Engine is not it is the correct vintage here is a link that roger passed on about Skipjack Michael

Terrific work Tom. Looks like you are getting pretty cozy with the brass work as well. Michael

Speedy and good looking work there sir. Michael

Bob thanks, I can tell you that fiddling around with this frame has given me a whole new appreciation for all the builders out there building the fully framed models I would be forever turning the thing over to shake out something I dropped into the depths. John, not a chance that this will take away too much from the cutter, I just wanted to get a bit of a start building the board and doing some tests while researching the launch. Floss Part 4 Made one of the classic mistakes today, I measured off one of my prints and not a dimension, and the scale was off on the print. hence the brass spacer. I kept looking at the keel clamp next to the drawing, and the keel itself all were fine it was a different print that the spacer stand was on. The other screw up today was breaking this 5/8ths end mill while making the aluminum keel clamp supports that were too short. I had used a piece of aluminum the same thickness as the piece being machined so the piece was not tight enough in the vice. I was using a climb cut and as soon as the cutter began it started to pull the metal toward itself and before I could turn off the mill the end mill snapped. The wooden keel clamps are made from a piece of white Lilac that I cut in 1974 lovely wood. The keel test piece is maple and the width is 11/32 The gripe is balancing on the rest of the test keel Michael

Matt, Thank you for your prompt explanation. Michael

Forgive my ignorance but what is "Microcristal Wax" ? Michael

I just cannot imagine it Tom. She is looking a lot better now though. The walls behind the model look like they are plastered stone? Michael

Mark, Pete, Tom, thanks for looking in. Mark, some of the building boards that I have seen on this forum were my inspiration, there are some nice rigs out there. Pete, I am hoping that this set up will be flexible enough to use for a number of small boat hulls. Tom, Yes you are correct the drawings I have done so far put the hull at 28 1/2 inches with a beam of 7 1/2 inches and 2 1/2 free-board at midships with a draught of 1 11/32. these dimensions are subject to change as I get more accurate information hopefully from the present owner. My other route would be to contact the owner of Skipjack which is the sister boat albeit with a bigger engine, a Two Cylinder Buffalo. Michael

Very nice work Rob. Michael

This is an intriguing build, I am looking forward to seeing how you "pull it all together" Michael

Floss Part 3 For the first test I am setting up 4 moulds and the stem, gripe stem knee and a section of keel. The moulds are bolted to the cross beams with 4x40 cap screws, The strips are 1/8th by 1/8th white pine that I will try as ribbands for the first test I have discovered that I need to add a little side to side movement to fine tune the moulds to the centreline. The moulds on the cross beams are positioned using some small engineers squares. Michael

What a graceful shape, she is looking good Tim. Michael

Ed, thank you for your detailed explanation, yes windows XP is a stable platform simple but good enough for me, I think our desktops are similar. I also have a large screen, I cannot see the small screens clearly enough. Michael

Pete, this looks really interesting I will be following along, Nice looking drawings you have there. Michael

Stelios, it looks like you are almost finished and she looks great. Michael

Ed I am learning a great deal working through your comments about how you are designing and Lofting your plans. I am curious about what programs you are using. I am familiar with Corel Draw 11 and Autocad Lt 2000 and I have been applying some of the same techniques to my own drawing based on your lead. Michael

Piet the model is looking great. regarding small nut bolt and screws check this site their prices are quite reasonable and good quality. Michael

Great work Neal I like the added metal work, it is great when one can use real nuts and bolts. Michael

Mark, Crackers, welcome. I hope that I can contribute some interesting methods for others to try, although I'm guessing that most of this will have already been done by somebody else. I will be setting up three mould forms and a stem to test the principle of working with this frame. 1. To see what sort of dimension and strength that the ribbands will need to be. 2. To determine if the temporary attachment method will in fact work. 3. To find out if the method of placing the planks to the ribs will also work satisfactorily. 4 To test the mould and stem clamps. The picture shows frame number 17 test this was done using the pins on the homasote board, it is clear Fir with the grain laying flat across the width of the frame. I will need to choose carefully the wood and the grain direction for maximum strength. I have been able to get an email forwarded to the present owner of Floss, and am hoping it proves to be fruitful. Michael

Andy, there are quite a few plans out there for model IC engines, The model engineer featured quite a few over the years. Bob, thanks for looking in. Floss Part 2 The next stage of the build board included fixing the top rails together with some 3/4 x 1 1/2 inch U channel this will also hold the clamps for the stem and stern. Also some pictures of the way that the top frame can be flipped over. Michael

Hello Greg and welcome to this build. Lunch is fixed, so yes come along for some goodies The Ferro engine will be a working gasoline engine as well. when I was 16 I made a working overhead valve gas engine that ran on lighter fluid the piston was made from an old spark plug and the crankshaft was made from a few sections of bicycle chain soldered together. the points were full size off an old car and the whole lot was soldered together with soft solder. it was very crude but it would run for about 30 seconds before running out of fuel. I have learned a few things since then so I would imagine that once I have the drawings of the Ferro Engine I will be able to build one. The building board is designed to hold the mould boards while the ribbands are fitted with the boat held up about 2 1/2 inches off the base so that I can get to it all easily. The fixtures for holding the stem and stern posts are not yet made I will work on these as time permits. Today I have a lot of snow to clear and it is -16 degrees and windy. Michael

Matt I just finished going through all you pictures, you are making a beautiful model. your workmanship is a joy to see. Michael

Floss/Skipjack Part 1 History Floss was one of a pair of Launches that were built in 1909 by Herbert Minett and was powered by a single cylinder Ferro engine, her sister named Skipjack pictured here had a two cylinder Buffalo engine. These launches were built for Andrew Mellon the Pittsburgh Millionaire. Model I am still tracking down information about Floss, and I have a few leads. I am going to build this model the same way as the full size boats of this type were often built. Moulds were suspended from the ceiling in some cases and others were built upside down. The Stem Keel and Stern timbers were set up and the moulds positioned. In either case to build a model using either of these methods I will need to support the moulds and backbone to fix ribbands for setting the bent frames before planking. After the ribbands are fixed to the Stem, moulds and stern the bent frames will be fitted to the keel and then temporarily attached to the ribbands with pins. Once all the frames are set the sheer clamps and bilge stringers and floors will be added. After the basic shell is assembled then the planking will commence. In order to accomplish all this I needed to build a building board with some specific features. Using odds and ends of materials I had laying around the shop I came up with an acceptable solution. The base is 36inches by 10inches by 1 7/32 inches thick it was cut from and old office desk top. The white square tubes are 3/4 inch railing bars left over from a project a couple of years ago. The blue anodized aluminum tubes are also 3/4 inch diameter left over from another project. The white plastic components were machined from some offcuts picked up at a commercial plastic supplier. The aluminum rails are a low cost bar clamp that was cut in half and the clamp mechanisms removed. The dome nuts are 5/16 and are threaded onto a length of 5/16 ready rod that causes the clamps to lock on the rails. The cross rails are a sections of some 3/4 inch U channel that was slit down the middle in the table saw. The cross rails are clamped with some cherry blocks and 4x40 allen head cap screws. These lines are still being reviewed and updated as I get new information, When I am satisfied that they are as good as I can get then the build will actually start. Floss lines.pdf Until then I am getting on with some tests regarding bent frames and testing my ideas about the construction method, and finishing the elements of the building board. Because of scale and look at the large scale of 1:8 the frames will need to be made of something different than oak it is just too coarse. these frames are 1 1/4 scale inches square Fir the wood was boiled for 15 minutes in water. The actual frames will likely be somewhere around 1 1/4 by 3/4 with the inside edges rounded off before bending. I am also testing without heating and just soaking overnight. This will probably be a while in the making and I am in no rush I have lots of work doing the testing and research. it is a great diversion and a break from the intense work on the Pilot Cutter. Plus I needed something to fill in my spare time;>) Michael