Veszett Roka

From the picture, yes, this is the tiller, and i don't think it moves twin rudder. Also i don-t think it reaches the bulwark at any side, however it has plenty of space there. The tackle is on windward side only since the ship is trimmed to go windward a bit (and due its hull shape - it is designed this way) - dutch people call this 'luvgierig'. Hence the helmsman need to pull the tiller always to the windward side a bit, and the tackle helps him. Daniel will correct me if i'm wrong.

I can smell the grease and oil looking the torpedo tubes. Very nicely done Kev.

This side-thread came from discussions of modern replicas colors, which could be authentic or not - i cite the longship replicas as authentic source, as they are built by same method and materials like the original. We are all agree that one ship cannot represent a whole era. However, like Mary Rose, can add tons of data to our existing knowledge. Connect those puzzle pieces together we can model the typical ship of the era. Think of Thor Heyerdahl's Ra1 and Ra2. But that model and its color wouldn't be an authentic, just as far as we can model the original. Don't mention the kits here, those are subject of a massive business, and kit producers easily sacrifice the historical accuracy for higher profit. So back to the lanyard colors. I think we can say that impregnate the standing rigging was necessary. If we are sure in that period the ancient shipbuilders were used pine tar, we should check its color (which is dark brown). I did produce pine tar in my teenager age, and cover some ropes. As thinner, some clean alcohol was fine. As far as i know, animal grease (whale fat) was also used for cover the ropes - it is white at first, then turns to olive drab. Cut the long story short, i believe all lookalike color can match. We cannot pinpoint how all those ships were built, how long the sun shaded their threads, how the sea saltness lighten the ropes, and how rotten were the hemp ropes when we model them. Ah, and a remark at the end: during restauration of Peking in Blohm und Voss, the lanyards were impregnated by thinned oil based tar. It is black for sure.

Look at my avatar. Thats me sailing a soling class on 2003 World Championships. This is a strict one-design class sailboat. How strict the rules are? For example if you put the mast horizontally onto a table, it's top must weight 10.35 kgs, +/- 2% if my memory serves me right - not less, not more. So can we say that solings are identical? Not. Not just because the different colors, decorations, but because the rigging solutions and methods. It depends on what the skipper prefers. Going to the stays, ours were bowden type, others like the monoline (wire). Our tiller was made from stainless steel. Other solings had wooden one. If you find a sunken soling (you can do it in Lake Geneva for sure), how far it is represent its type? Even this is an one-design class, what is the true tiller: the metal or the wooden one? Therefore we cannot rely on typical ships. We will have dimensions (they must be identical for all soling), materials (almost same), solutions (some typical, some totally different). But hey, a tiller is still a tiller. If you find 4 sunken soling and all have tiller, some metal some wooden, can you say that all solings were steered by tiller? Yes. If any exception, you didn't find it yet. Anyhow, you will be able to recreate the sunken soling at all way. You can see her materials. You can see the methods the materials put together. You can see her colors. You can see the rigging solutions and their purpose. At the end, you can sail the newly built soling like the sunken one ~40 years ago. We are capable to rebuild the Vasa. We have the ship, our researches gave us excessive amount of data to build an identical ship. Down to her colors. The only question is whether we want to build her. I'm pretty sure the new one would capsize too if we'd follow the original, but we still able to do. In other hands, there is no reason to seek the 'typical' ship. Even we have good written sources about the know-how, same shipyard will not build two identical ship, and those ships will change in the years. Back to viking replicas. Modern archeology can pinpoint the country where the trees cut. Skudelev2 what Eberhard mentioned above built around 1042, and her trees cut from Glendalough, Ireland. Quite impressive to know, especially because this is the least preserved longship ever found. Comparing her to the Gokstad ship, they share the planking, keel, stem and in general hull design, even Gokstad ship is some 50 years older. Looking to other viking ships we found, we can say that all steered by steuerboard, if any exception we didn't find it yet. So if i will use same oak, tar, hemp etc. and build a ship exactly same dimensions, methods, tools etc. will this ship be authentic? I vote yes.

Disagree again. Careful archeological researches can tell how the ship built. Even those longboats were caskets, they were seaworthy once. I don't think (and the archeologist community doesn't so) the shipbuilders had two concurrent practice for funeral ships and another for real seagoing vessels. So in this case the archeology proves the method and technique of the age. We are able to understand the full flow of building the ship, and our modern devices can prove if the rope was impregnated by animal grease or pine tar - or neither. Oak is still an oak nowadays, as like tar, iron, hemp. This is our advantage, and 21st century knowledge: the understanding the past times. Therefore building a replica ship identical as far as possible to the elders did is possible. Even our modern logic could do better 'interpretations', we follow the original, because this is the task. There is no speculation, because we have the original ship. We know her materials. We know the tools. We know the dimensions, where the joints placed, where the nails knocked. We know the rigging, and we even know the colors of them due our 21st century knowledge. Of course, if we'd like to sail the modern replica (still longboats) we must meet the modern rules. So the crew must have life jackets, inflatable dinghy, medicines, EPIRB and so forth, but we are talking the colors of the shrouds and not colors of the modern equipment.

They are lightning rods?

Good luck Kev! You have another follower

Although usually i agree with you Eberhard, but not this time. We must look closely the modern example first: what its main goal? Modern longboat replicas are built EXACTLY the same method than ancient vikings were used, including the trees, tools and materials down until the natural paints they used to color the dragon heads. The nails were produced by blacksmiths one by one, next to the shipyard, along with the axes the shipbuilders used. So i can tell they are identical to the original. Their lanyard color will match the original too.

I'm continously amazed by this precision and complexity.

Hi Keith, i don't know Germania in detail, hence asking. Didn't the crosstrees were riveted to the ring in the middle (red mark)? As crosstrees purpose to straighten the mast in close hauled courses, when the sails had lower force attack points than the stays have and leeward stays loosen a bit. Without the middle fixed point it will roll a bit in vertical, but will not give the spanning force to the mast. Just thinking, maybe the builders had other solutions?

I do certainly enjoy the creation. It is very satisfying to look at the finished model (and be pride), but it will be a 'thing' soon. Hence we need, we must build a next ship.

I hate to suspend the build. Mostly because i hate to clean all the brushes, close the paints, clean the workbench for next time. However, stomach is a good judge when to quit. Mine is a corrupt one, i can pay with a glass of liqueur 😉

+1 vote for needles, i'm using them for drilling. They're extremely sharp. I started following the thread, as i have a couple of childhood ships to be restore and improve (a lot). (and sorry for remark, but i laughed when read Prince of Whales - if it was intended pun, then brilliant!)

Looks like the frames fit very well.

Welcome here, fellow sailor I love your Dragon, bring back some great memory when only soling and dragon were the match race participants.

A good friend of mine collected dozens of plastic (styrene) boxes of margarine. He cut them into plank-like pieces and glued to the wooden hull with PVA, pinched the plastic where the rivets should have been. The plastic had 'matte' finish and it was thin enough to bend easily. I don't know how the curves of Amapá can cover with this method.

Szia Attila, it is coming along very nicely. How do you plan to display the sails, on full tack or furled?

Wow, and a 424 type steam locomotive at the background?

I believe this will help you, if the kits are almost identical. Cutty Sark 1-220 Revell 1987.pdf

Thanks Yves, i think the point -3- is the most important and the showstopper one. For -1- design, it is easy: a rod with 2 globes. For -2- if you print a couple of them near to each other, like trees in the forest, they will support themselves. But yes, cannot work out the fragile material. I have no any experience with 3D printing, so have no clue how rigid is the final product. Well, if you check out my Pamir in the 'At a glance' topic, you'll se mine is mint too. I did weathering on my old models (especially the warships), but since i built the Vasa without weathering for obvious reasons, i fell in love with the clean look.

Yves, just out for interest, why aren't you simply print the stanchions? Also, will you weather the Snowberry? This is really impressive right now, I personally like a lot the wooden deck color on the foredeck. Great work.

Also nail polish is good for secure screws from movement. Back in old times I've secured tape recorder's head azimuth adjusting screws with red nail polish.

Egilman, i disagree. The laser cutters and 3D printers are just new tools. Computers are just blind and dumb devices without any brain, they're just helping us to find new ways to creativity. Think of that 3D printing allows you and other fellow modelers to cast more detailed tiny pieces (or even giant hulls) with incomparable details. The difference is HOW we are using them. You can print whole ships or small portions, the approach is the difference. And i can live both approach, every modelers has to find his/her favorite way.

What short memory? I forgot the thread, need to re-read to remember Anyway, and more seriously - i got you. However, i believe that time is the matter only: a younger could learn it faster, you and me can learn it slower, with more practice and maybe a lot of trial and error. I did try learn new technologies many times in my life, and succeeded - sometimes age and experience (especially the logical and analytical approach, which comes from the real life experience, lets say age) is a great advantage. Cheers Roka

Never too old to learn something new. You can decide later to live with it or leave it, can't you? Age starts when you thinks you're old