BANYAN
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Everything posted by BANYAN
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Carl, it is a relatively simple concept - if you know you will be involved in a battle you fit the spur before sailing; otherwise it could stay off/inboard to improve ship-handling? No need to run to a nearby shore as you suggest, as they would know beforehand if there was likelihood of battle imminent. One-on-one battles, or to 'chase' another ship, would really only be for anti-piracy patrols or the like, and probably would result in the spur being fitted throughout the patrol. This is purely conjecture only. There may be some evidence to veto or support such a concept? Purely from the 'practical point of view' man-handling such a large (and heavy) chunk of iron-clad timber at those heights would not have been easy on a beach but may have been possible while alongside in their 'port'? Anything mentioned in the information you have Steven? cheers Pat -
It seems we were responding at the same time Steven. your response to the anchor issue puts some of my thoughts to rest though. An iron anchor would still have had sufficient weight to assist, but it seems you have evidence these were stowed forward and the ships were beached stern first. Any discussion by the academics/researchers on whether the spur interfered with the anchor cable? Another thought, how easy/difficult was it to mount the spur. To assist ship handling etc, is it possible the spur was carried inboard and only fitted (while beached or the like) as required? An interesting discussion indeed. cheers Pat
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Bit hard anchoring forward with the bows beached Carl If you want to stop the waves pushing the stern of a 'beached' boat around and beaching sideways, then the idea is to use a stern (kedge) anchor to keep her bows on the beach and stern to the sea. The cable of a forward anchor would probably also foul on the spur? Not much point anchoring these types of vessels out in a bay to overnight I would think (unless expecting a night action)? Back in those days, I think, they tended to stay near the coast, unless foraying from their base. More often than not they probably camped on a beach overnight. A kedge anchor would then be very useful, even if made of stone; the bows were probably made fast to the beach/coast with some type of 'sand/ground' anchor? The beauty of a double ended vessel is that it would lay to anchor from aft just as well as from forward? Anything in your research about this Steven? Food for more thought anyway Sorry to have hijacked your build log Steven. cheers Pat
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Looks good Daniel. Where was the stone anchor stowed? (I am assuming stone and expect the usual consequence ) Might that have been aft and used as a counterweight. If they drove the bows onto the beach the an anchor aft would make sense? cheers Pat
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HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72
BANYAN replied to BANYAN's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1851 - 1900
Thanks to all for the likes and for looking in, and kind comments Carl, John and Druxey; much appreciate the feedback and encouragement. Druxey, 4 turns if you include the in and out feed (or is that 3 total ). I haven't been able to determine if the 4 turns were 4 complete with or without feed lines - I have gone with 4 wraps of the cable. According to the patent description this is correct as being direct acting on the tiller using the slide mechanism of the Rapson design, this required much less effort and also resulted in 'positive' control of the wheel. I would appreciate any further feedback if anyone has better information. I will try to find that info and post again and perhaps a better 'interpretation' of the info could be made? The problem is that there is precious little information available about these types of equipment. the only model of a Rapson slide I have found is in the Dutch Rijksmuseum and it only shows the tiller with partial slide attached - no ropes / cable etc. cheers Pat- 993 replies
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Great work Daniel, very symmetrical layout on the framing. cheers Pat
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Great work on the boats Danny, they look great. Could you fix the tiller by cutting off the squared extension and replace with some brass wire/rod of suitable scale? cheers Pat
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HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72
BANYAN replied to BANYAN's topic in - Build logs for subjects built 1851 - 1900
Hi folks, another update; not much but some progress. I am being slowed b research at the moment. The steering platform is now complete and fitted over an inverted 'A' Frame - the rapson slide (not shown) slides across under the platform between the legs of the frame at the position of the cable drum. The steering compass cabinet is complete but just dry fitted. The compass cover (pewter aftermarket part cut from its pedestal) is also only dry fitted. If we use this it will be painted brass. We are trying to make this by 'spinning' on a lathe to get the base form. The hammock platform around the funnel has now been completed. This is only 11mm high to give some idea of size so this is a 'close-up' which shows all the 'detail' not visible to the naked eye As best as I can determine, there was only an outer rail. the hammocks are stacked vertically and I assumed some are lashed to the rails for stability? An inner ring would not work due to space and access issues. When the original photo is zoomed right in, the stanchions and 4 rails are very clear. I have used black cotton in-lieu of wire for the rails as, at this scale it was impossible to keep the shape of the 0.4mm wire without deformation as I bent it around and through the stanchion holes. The stanchions are after-market. The companion has also been fitted in place. I have also made a steam whistle (a little early for a steam horn which did not appear for another decade or so (as best I can determine). This was made from a tube with a rounded solid upper plug, and a bit of rod rounded and shaped to accept the actuator handle at one end - this was drilled through to accept the whistle and is intended to represent the steam cock valve. The spigot at the base is a locating pin. The photo of the whistle itself shows the item before cleaning and some polishing - this will be left brass. The ruler in the photo is in mm. cheers Pat
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Sounds like you have a good grip on the spur now Steven; enough to make a very good 'case/argument' for the iron sheathed spur. Look forward to seeing this fitted. cheers Pat
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Ah, another form of a 'prayer wheel' (bent over using them as in saying prayers) - Interesting concept but all overtaken with calculators and the like these days
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Nice work Greg, some very nice weathering effects you are showing - very realistic. cheers Pat
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Great to hear UV. You can always spin the yarn that she shows the effects of battle damage (and you won ) cheers Pat
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Hi Steven, at this point I would suggest that my 'recollection' may have been from a post in a build log in an earlier iteration of MSW which was about a bireme or trireme - and most likely referred to the 'ram'. I think you are correct in your assumption/choice of the iron spur - I found the following in "The Age of the Galley" edited by Robert Gardiner (Conway Books) page 103 in the Chapter "From Dromon to Galea..." - I have omitted the greek terminology: "..The prow housed the ship's main offensive weapon, a flamethrower for Greek Fire, above which was a fortified foredeck. The prow also had a spur, referred to by the Anonymous by the classical Greek embulos, which was either made of iron or iron-clad. .." The source reference used for this is "Anonymous, #6.2: Eti de kai ..." This refers to an anonymous treatise commissioned by the Pariclios and Parakoimomennos 'Basil', dated c AD960. Apparently the anonymous author derived much of his information on ships from the Onomasticon of Julius Pollux c AD178. The information in the "The Age of the Galley" is an article in the Mariner's Mirror 79_4 (1993), pp387-92 which argued that dromons had spurs and not rams. I hope this helps ? Do you have that article from the MM? If you don't I do have it, and can get the relevant info for you (send me a PM) cheers Pat
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Nice work and a great idea on the slits Dave. Another thing that may help with maintaining spacing of the shrouds is to do the major ratlines (that go all the way across first, then fill in between. I think I did the bottom then the middle and then the top majors, then the intermediates. That helped me keep the spacing while I did the minors. If your current jig resolves the spacing issue ignore this ramble cheers Pat
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I will have a look later today Steven; hopefully, find it but now that Carl mentioned the rams I am beginning to wonder whether this was the association n my befuddled brain get back to you soonest. cheers Pat
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Looks good Steven. WRT the spur coat I think recall reading somewhere that these were bronze; may be worthwhile investigating. If I find the source of the info I will let you know. cheers Pat
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Looks good Dave. cheers Pat
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Great to see another update Ed; have been missing this wonderful example of model engineering Is your rule of thumb about seizings based on a real life rule you found? It does make a lot of sense. cheers Pat
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