BANYAN

You are making great progress with Alfred Gary; very nice work on the framing and planking. Some great adice along the way - thanks! cheers Pat

Great work Danny, you make it look easy but I know you put a lot of work into that - the result speaks for itself. cheers Pat

Also try the 'box' making forums, I think they still use these sorts of hinges and may be able to point you to a reliable source. cheers Pat

Some very nice progress there Denis, looking good! cheers Pat

Nice progress Russ, the planking is looking good; I like the colour/tone of the wood you are using. cheers Pat

Hi BW and thanks for looking in. As yet I have not been able to relocate that text. I have got in a very bad habit lately of not bookmarking interesting things as I read. I think unhinging of the rudder, while not a common thing, happened more often than we might think as the article I am trying to relocate suggested as much - when hitting sand bars etc. WRT the additional chain, I think in this case these were longer versions of rudder chains so they could be used for steering also. I am forming a 'half-baked' theory at the moment that the 'preventer' element of the chain may have terminated at (shackled to) an eye, and these extra lengths would have been used as required for steering as shown by Harland (see earlier graphic). The interesting bit is this elusive reference to a "Lang's emergency tiller" - similar to a reference to a "Lang's eye in the channels" - I simply cannot find any drawings or reference other than that fleeting reference in the Mechanic's Magazine. I'll keep you posted. cheers Pat

Very nice work on the rudder and fittings Jason. It bodes well for a very nice model with the care and attention to research you are doing. For consideration only, I invested in a punch kit plastic modellers use which can punch many sizes and styles of head from a very thin foil. A bit tricky positioning but they do provide a more realistic result when painted. Not trying to get you to change your current work, just for the future if that is what you are trying to achieve. I have a set of the the Small Shop - The nutter set - for blind, bolts and rivets which I got from Historex - I have no connection with them whatsoever, simply where I got mine cheers Pat

Looking good OC; great progress despite the oops moment cheers Pat

Hi Steve, I am building an 1855 launched warship that featured clipper style rigging. I have not come across this before either, but some background reading I did during research for my build may help resolve the question. One of the issues I came across was, that to get sufficient clearance of the bulwarks brom the shrouds due to their lead angles, some channels were extra wide; whereas in some clippers/packets etc this was resolved by leading the shrouds inboard of the bulwarks. The ship I am building only had a low bulwark but some had very high ones to protect gun crews and deck personnel, which was problematical for getting a fair lead for the shrouds. The bulwarks on my build, HMCCC Victoria, were formed from 'roughtree timbers' which were not extensions of the frames etc and therefore were not as strong. Therefore the channels could not be attached to them. Putting this together, perhaps, in the two channel ships, a POSSIBLE reason is that the lower one provided the strength for anchoring the shroud as it was attached to the hull proper, while the upper may simply have been a spacer to clear the rails etc. Ed and co will be better placed to answer this. cheers Pat

Glad to see your team are making some headway with your research John; wish I could say the same for our build The model is looking really good. cheers Pat

Great results from some meticulous planning and execution Dan. As always, your explanations make easy reading and are very informative. cheers Pat

Great progress Mark, looks like you have those dockyard workers busy again. cheers Pat

Another example of your fine craftsmanship Ed; that yard looks very realistic. Love the jig! cheers Pat

You were right Russ, the paint really does accentuate her lovely lines. This will make into a superb example of your Biloxi luggers :). cheers Pat

Now that's the future of modelling Very nice job Dave, shows what can be done with some modern technology. Some purists may have difficulty with this, but there would have been the same issue with the introduction of PE way back, and look at it now - a staple of many kits. cheers Pat

I am assuming all this PE is aftermarket Dan? Some very fine detail in those guns and very well assembled. cheers Pat

Thanks John, that is the other one. Many thanks folks, appreciate this. Now to get busy in the shed cheers Pat

Thanks for looking in John, Denis Ed and Eberhard; appreciate the comments. Thanks for confirming the solution Eberhard; I will get some in soon. Your explanation of the loops makes some sense Eberhard, like faking out a tow rope etc to pay out under control and not 'snap'. However, I cannot see these loops in any other image I have so, as ED has suggested, I think I will terminate at an eye under the counter until I can get better supporting information. I need to relocate some text I read recently about a better way of connecting preventer chains as the thrust of the argument to support the new method was that the 'old' way resulted in the rudder, when unshipped, being drawn into a broad aspect relative to the sea by the towing action resulting in damage most of the time. The new method kept it on 'axis' thus streamlining the tow. I will post it here when I find it again as it is out of copyright. Many thanks for the continued support. Pat

Nice work Denis. You're not mucking around with this build are you; rapid progress. Another fine vessel to add to your fishing fleet. cheers Pat

As part of the final push for finishing, I need to drill for the ends of the rudder chains. These were used only as preventers and not for emergency steering; an emergency tiller was provided for this. This raises two questions I hope someone may be able to steer <pun intended> me in the right direction. Q1. The Contract specified: "Rudder to be fitted with Rapson's patent slide tiller, pintles, and Lang's tiller abaft the rudder, in case of the rudder head being carried away,also to have one spare tiller." This implies an iron tiller arm that is fitted above the waterline but outside the hull when required. My initial thoughts are this might be a iron T bar fitted into a mortice, or yolked around the rudder upper parts, with steering pendants then shackled to eyes on the ends of the T? Please note c1855. I have not been able to unearth any info so any info or suggestions most welcomed. Q2. The photo of the ship (not clear) and the lithographs show the rudder chains terminating at, or passing through the hull just under the counter/transom timber junction. The enhanced photo suggests some sort of collar BUT, I think this may only be some background 'clutter' which the person enhancing the photo has assumed to be the ship. i base this on all lithographs not showing this. See images below. As these were only to prevent losing the rudder I believe these would have terminated on the hull as shown in all images. Another contemporary frigate, the Danish 'Jylland' shows the chains extending forward in loops but in this instance I believe it may be to provide sufficient length to use them for emergency steering also as shown by Harland in his book "Seamanship in the the of Sail". In the absence of better information, I am going to terminate the chains under the counter on eyebolts. The alternate solution was that the chains went into the hull, hence the perception of collars, and would then be fitted as required to the Lang's Emergency Tiller which was fitted inside rather than outside the ship? Supporting images - enhanced photo of Victoria counter, Danish frigate Jylland rudder chains (from Jylland Museum website) and illustration from Harland "Seamanship in the the of Sail". See earlier posts for lithographs etc. Any comments, suggestions or corrections most welcomed. cheers Pat

Hi folks, a lot of small details being prepared and the associated notches, drill holes etc being made to the model in preparation for her coat of paint. This is almosr complete now and I start the finishing sanding and masking tomorrow. Hopefully, I will have her primed by the end of this month. Some of the smaller details now finished include the Common Service Lifebuoy (Cook design), the cutter (still needs some tidy up and final paint), and the forecastle (heads still need lids and jibboom needs a tenon to fit into the bitts) ): cheers Pat

One of my first purchases Ed; thanks again for the feedback. cheers Pat

Thanks jhearl; that is the one - much appreciated. What a magnificent build of Falls of Clyde by GAW, which is a masterclass in metalsmithing a ship model. I hope GAW does not mind if I repost a picture from his build (Wingrove Collection) showing the jig I was thinking of? Now, I have to work out how to make a version of this. Thanks again for the pointer Eberhard, I will have a search to try and find it. cheers Pat

Hi Ed, thanks for the feedback, especially that statement by Underhill as I had missed that. I will need to pay more attention in future. I am still contemplating making allowance for, but not fitting, slings as Victoria was intended as a warship also and slings may have been a necessary 'battle' precaution. Many thanks. I have Luce, and Fincham also and concur your comments - they are very useful references also. I find "Seamanship" by Commander G.S. Nares (1868) very useful also. You are right though - it is a never ending activity researching this stuff and very detrimental to the building time. i am sure that your next volume will become a very useful reference as well as a building guide (techniques) for ships of this era. cheers Pat

A very complimentary stand Keith; just like an upmarket hard stand cradle? cheers Pat