HMS Naiad 1797 by GDM67 - 1:60 - using Ed Tosti Books

[albert]

Very nice work, Gary.

[GDM67]

^{Bollard Timber Saga continued...  Afer ten attempts, I managed to get the correct angle on the bollard timbers.  In the end, this was very rewarding.  What I lack in talent, I make up for in perserverance}

 

^{Here are the port and starboard timbers.  They were size and shape matched prior to installation.}

 

^{One of the big take aways for me from Ed's book, Naiad, was the pre-fitting, clamping and pinning of pieces prior to glue in.  I see this as a dress rehearsal for how it should go.  As a result of these few extra minutes, I now fine tune pieces and am placing them with minimal glue slop.  Note the pins.  I have already aligned everthing, adjusted my clamps and know it all correlates to the plans. once satisfied, it was just a matter of a little glue and then to slide he piece in place and clamped.} 

 

^{Note the alternating clamps.  This is so I evenly distribute the pressure and didnt cant these critical frames...}

 

^{Prior to installing more timbers, I went ahead and installed the dovetail plate in the stern keel (not shown) as well as the horseshoe plates at the stem.  I thought this would be easier now, given I could lay the keel flat for inlay.  I used 22ga copper wire that I first bent around a small tube to get the proper radius.  I then hammered it flat, indented for the drilling and the rest was history.  I used a small micro chisel to carve the location of the inlay.  The bolts are 24ga copper wire that I cut  a little proud and then peaned in with a hammer, thus securing the plate.  I did add some CA glue for ensurance.}

 

 

^{Here is the short under frame installed.  Pains were taken to ensure they were equal athwart ships.  I used the base drawing and a square to ensure thier location.  Dont want to be lopsided here.}

 

^{The final act of the weekend was to slice my index finger open with a #11 blade.  I spent the rest of the day in the ER, getting stitches.  I had gotten sloppy with my knife safety...  Ugh...}

Edited January 25, 2016 by GDM67

[druxey]

Heal soon!

[Mike Y]

I truly envy your clamps!

Stupid question of the day: how do you hide the holes from the pins? Do you use some filler later on, or they are too small to be visible?

P.S.: fly safe!

[mtaylor]

Lovely work Gary. Heal fast and let's try to keep DNA off the ships.  I'm failing at that one, myself, but I do hope everyone else doesn't spill blood.

[dvm27]

If there is a ship modeler who nailed the bollard timbers on the first attempt I'd like to shake his or her hand, Gary. Looks terrific no matter how many attempts it took. I don't know if it was in Ed's book or your idea, but installing the foremost cant frames now as you have done makes the fitting of the hawse timbers much easier and more accurate.

 

Welcome to the "#11 stabbed-myself-with-a-blade-or-chisel club". As a multiple offender, I opine that there is no difference in outcomes between spending a day (and $'s) at an ER with painful lidocaine injections and sutures vs. closing the wound with a bandaid so long as the wound edges are in contact. Unless, of course, you are a hand model.

[albert]

Fantastic work Gary.

[GDM67]

Hi All, thanks for the get well wishes. Despite having 5 sutures in my left index finger, I was able to install Hawse timber #2 tonight. Photos next week.

 

To answer a few questions:

 

The clamps were Ed's design and I love them. I use the typical colored plastic spring clamps for mock up and then fit these clamps for final glue up. I like being able to adjust the pressure of the clamp as required. Ed also shows a clamp that pivots for irregular angled pieces. I plan to make those soon.

 

The foremost cant frame was installed per the book instructions and a great recommendation it is. I relied on this frame for the field fit of the hawse timber feet.

 

As for the pin holes, right now, they won't show because of pieces that will glue over them, but in areas that they do show, I will try to place them where bolt holes will be placed.

 

Thanks for all the interest. As I said before, it's very rewarding. Gary

[GDM67]

Work on the Hawse pieces progresses, albeit at a slow pace.  Please note that there is a lot of finishing work to be done.  At this stage, its all chisel, rasp, 60-grit sandpaper... But I thought I would show the worts and all...   Shown here is the Bollard Timber fayed to the stem with the roughed in detail of the knighthead.  Also shown are hawse pieces 1-3.  Note the air gaps.  These should be 2” wide and still need to be worked.  The template is for the first full cant frame (ZA).  Once that is installed, I can go back and fit hawse pieces 4 and 5.

 

 

I had great difficulty getting the hawse pieces right.  I found that field fitting them was the best approach for me, paying close attention to the templates as well as the base drawing. I have now found myself obsessing over a couple of hundredths of an inch when it comes to the drawings.

 

 

Here is the inside view of the hawse pieces.  Note the second full under timber (really a short cant frame).  This needs to be perpendicular to the base of the keel.  Again, this is all roughed in, using a rasp and chisels.  Polishing work will come once the full shape of the bow has been established.

 

 

THERE IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY HERE TO RUIN THE SHAPE OF THE HULL AND MAKE THE ENTRY TOO FINE BY UNDERCUT THE ENTIRE BOW STRUCTURE IF YOU GO TOO FAR…. DON’T BE TEMPTED TO FINISH IT TOO MUCH.  (This is a temptation for us perfectionists – which by definition is exactly who we are as scale ship builders…)

 

 

Here is the framing jig that Ed Tosti wrote of in the book.  I just love this jig! I made mine a double jig and have tapped all the holes in the cross bars.  They are set one inch appart.  I have blank bars in the storage tray above that I will tap as I move along.  I plan to use this for future builds as well.  Now that I have started this style of ship build, I dont think I will build another ship any other way.  

 

Its not enough to simply cut out the frame pieces and place chocks between them.  The jig allows you to clamp each piece down and then orient them so they match the template.  I think you can get into trouble here if you don’t use a jig like this.  The cumulative misalignment of a few frames can spell disaster.

 

Above the jig in the photo is a small binder that I made for the cant frames.  I have a similar binder for the square frames, scantlings, etc.  Keeping things organized is a must for a build like this.  There are literally hundreds, of frame pieces to make and each one is an opportunity for misalignment…

 

 

A close up of the jig in action.  The cross bars hold the piece down, while the small clamps hold the chock to the frame at the proper angle.  The other side of the chock was glued to its frame in a previous step.  Did I mention that I just love this jig?  The time it took to build is paying off handsomely. 

 

Down below are the first two full cant frames for the bow.  Detailing work still needs to be done here.  The foot of each needs to be fine tuned.  I have found that using a chisel works better for me than the grinder in establishing the foot angle.  I have a far too heavy hand at the grinder and this step requires delicacy.  I also attach the pattern to both sides of at the footing.  This helps me visualize the angle better.  The chocks are made from Boxwood, while the frames are pear.

 

Next is to attach the first full cant frame, then to place hawse timbers 4 and 5.  I will then place a few more cant frames before doing a semi-final shaping and clean up of the structure.

 

Best, Gary 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2016 by GDM67

[EdT]

Great job, Gary.  I'm loving it.

 

Ed

[GDM67]

Ed, you have created a monster...  Between your books and those of David Antscherl and Greg Herbert, I will never look at scale ship building (thats what I call this thing) in the same light again.  Thank you!  G

[GDM67]

Ed,  can you share a little more detail on the black glue and perhaps a photo?  I have tried it several times, first with a powdered acrylic and second with a acrylic pigment paint.  Both times, the glue congealed instantly.  I think that I might have invented a new silly putty/crazy glue concoction!  It ruined my wifes mortar and pestle...  All in the name of ship building

 

What exactly is artist pigment?  My local art store tries to sell me a single pigmented black acrylic paint tube.

 

Thanks! G

[EdT]

Gary, I cannot add much to the process described on p.38 of Naiad, Volume I, but you do need to start with the right ingredient.  Here is a link to the product I used for both Naiad and Young America.  I used Raw Umder.  This will make a dark brown glue.

 

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/oil-color-paints-and-mediums/dry-pigments-and-binder-mediums/sennelier-artist-dry-pigments.htm

 

Unfortunately, local art dealers tend to have a rather thin inventory, which is understandable considering the vast array of products available.  The products you tried presumably had an acrylic binder, meaning they are formulated with an acrlyic emulsion to be compatible with acrylic or other water based paints.  This probably makes them incompatible with the PVA Titebond glue.   Even if the product mixes well it will certainly impair the glue properties.  You want to disperse the dry pigment into the glue, so it will become the binder.  This requires pure dry pigment with no additives.

 

The key word here is "disperse".  The process in the book suggests how to get a homogeneous blend. That is the reason for starting with a small amount of glue and adding a bit of water to make an initial syrup.  Otherwise permanent lumps will form when the powder is added to the full amount of glue at once.  If I could add one comment to that, I would say less pigment could be used.  Probably 1-2 teaspoons to a 6 oz. glue bottle is enough.  The mix should be about the color of purchased chocolate milk.  It will dry very much darker.  While I have experienced no evident loss of glue strength, less pigment will have less potential ill effects.  If you want to add more, remember to make some more syrup first.

 

Good luck.

 

Ed

[druxey]

Surprisingly little pigment powder is required to color glue. I prefer to mix a small amount of pigment into paste with water before mixing with white glue. As Ed says, the mix will dry much darker than the liquid glue. Please wear respiratory protection as the pigment powder is very fine and easily becomes airborne.

[GDM67]

Hi Ed and Druxey,

 

Thanks for your follow up to my glue question.  I will keep trying...  Ed, I think you are right about the binding agent.  This is exactly what I think happened.

 

Back to building. I have done some (more like a lot of) rework on the Naiad - I was not a fan of the knee of head and a few other areas, so I went back and redid all of this, ok, everything...  It caused a lot of pain and as you can imagine, I was not motivated to take photos, but in the end, I am very satisfied with the outcome and the decision.  Hey, if I am going to stare at this project for the next four years, its got to be pleasing to my eye.

 

The biggest issue was that I had drastically undercut the bow and made the entry much too fine.  I tried to overcome this as I placed the forward cant frames, but simply found that it altered the beam of the ship drastically.  So over I started. Needless to say, there was a day of depression...

 

33 hours later, here we are with a new keel, stern deadwood and head of knee.  I find that I am much smarter the second time around. 

 

 

Some lessons I have learned on this build:

 

1. Chisel instead of #11 blade (too late for my left index finger...)

2. File instead of sanding stick

3. Razor blade instead of sandpaper

4. Micrometer that measures thousandths, not hundredths

5. Successive pieces glued together have a cumulative affect on the size of the subassembly.  Constantly refer back to the plans and templates - adjust accordingly.

6. Keep a "Ships Daily Log".  Even if there are doldrums, record in it each day.  Hey, they had to do it at sea, so why not do it at home??? 

7. Don't final sand or final shape a piece during the subassembly phase.  The risk of undercutting or misshapaing is significant. By waiting to do this, it will help to bring the entire project together as one.  

 

Next up is the infamous Bollard Timbers and stem rabbet...

 

Wish me luck. G

 

 

 

 

[EdT]

Gary,

 

You are not experiencing anything that would be out of the ordinary for any of us.  Except for point six, which I am simply far too undisciplined to do, I agree with every other point - in fact, most emphatically.  I would emphasize that it is very important not to over shape or try to finish sand pieces prematurely.  

 

I restrict the use of the #11 blade to cutting patterns.

 

Also, I do not recommend leaving pieces over-sized - that is more than about 1/64" outside the patterns - with the idea of finalizing their shape later by sanding.  Let the patterns do their job in setting the shape.  Virtually all the Naiad patterns have front and back profiles that I found to be quite accurate.  (If not, I hopefully fixed them in final revisions.)  I think if you adopt this approach, the bollard timbers will fall into line.  The forward inside edges matched to the forward outside edges marked (i.e. scribed through its pattern.) on the next inside piece is the key.

 

I do not wish to make this sound too easy.  Authentic full framing is a challenge - otherwise why do it.

 

Good luck.  I think it looks great so far.

 

Ed

[GDM67]

Hi Ed,  Thanks for the words of encouragement!  Building a ship plank by plank and bolt by bolt is definitely a new challenge for me and comes with a steep learning curve.  That being said, its very exciting.  I agree with the template use - I now paste them to both sides of many pieces so I can cut the proper angle.  This comes in handy for cutting the footing of frames.

 

Best, G 

[Remcohe]

Hi Gary,

 

Wonderfull progress. I'm wondering, how do you align the templates if you paste them to both sides of one piece?

 

Remco

[EdT]

I was wondering the same thing, Remco.  Most of the Naiad patterns show both front and back profiles.  I normally sand or file to the outer profile first square to the face, then bevel to the inner profile - or nearly so, to leave an allowance for fairing.  On the bollard timbers with their convex outer profiles, more allowance should be left.  I will be interested in Gary's method for using patterns on both sides.  I have done this in some cases by scribing index lines on the edges of the piece and using these to align the back side pattern - see the POB Young America posts on the stern pieces for this.  Of course all this assumes that a mirror image or appropriate opposite pattern does exist.  This is true for the Naiad bollard timbers - the other side's patterns can be used.

 

Ed

[druxey]

If it's of any assistance, when I've cut frames, generally I cut to the outside line, or no more than 1/64" outside it. Bevelling (except for bollard, hawse timbers and transoms) is left until fairing a complete section of the hull. 

 

If you are going to bevel each frame, would it not make sense to paste the pattern on the 'narrow' side, cut to the 'wide' line, then bevel back to the  'narrow' line of the pattern, rather than try to align patterns on both sides?

Edited February 19, 2016 by druxey

[EdT]

The method described by Druxey - beveling on the finished hull or a section of it - was the method described in the Naiad book and in building the original model.  The use of the patterns to align the two frames in each bend was covered pretty thoroughly, but these were not much used for beveling frames.  

 

In building Young America, frames were pre-beveled before erection and this was very successful in terms of accuracy and elimination of heavy hull sanding, but without the special provisions on both the drawings and in the process used for YA, pre-beveling can be risky.  I did very little pre-beveling on the frames for the Naiad model.  Rough pre-beveling on other parts, such as the bollard timbers was done and can be done from the patterns on one side only.

 

Druxey, your suggestion of using the patterns on the wide side would work well for outside bevels but the inner bevels would need different treatment.

 

Ed

Edited February 19, 2016 by EdT

[druxey]

True enough, Ed. But for most builders, they would be more concerned with the external appearance of the framing.

[EdT]

Perhaps . . . but what about bedding those pesky deck clamps?

[GDM67]

Hi All,

 

So...  I am specifically referring to canted frames.  I took a simplistic approach which was to  finish size the frame to the pattern that was pasted on it and then I would paste the mirror image of pattern to the back.   What I am specifically looking for is the angle of the foot.  I had a hard time getting this to the 34.5 degrees as stated in the practicum.  I used the back pattern to help me establsih the line (angle) of that foot. As for beveling of the futtocks, I dont think this is necessary to do all of this and I can see how that would be extra work.   

 

Hope that clarifies.  And, I really appreciate the dialogue.  G

Edited February 19, 2016 by GDM67

[GDM67]

Hi All,

 

I have almost finished the rework.  I estimate it to total about 50-hours...  That being said, I am still very happy with the decision and have corrected some previous mistakes.

 

While I still need to work the hawse pieces, I needed a change of pace and elected to start the transom.  This section is very tricky since its a true puzzle and everything is inter-related. 

 

 

Above are the six main pieces to the transom.  You will note that I put the size of each piece on the template.  There are two pieces, the wing and deck transoms that require 4" added thickness because these pieces require an arc shape to them.  The Wing transom will set the shape of the stern and the deck transom will curve with that deck.  At this stage, I am not worried about fine tuning the pieces,  this is not an excuse to be careless or sloppy, you just want to leave a little meet on the bone and trim it later...

 

Here are a few other views - these pieces are dry fit and will be aligned with all sorts of jigs and glued spacers when the time comes.  They still need to be fine tuned.  The wing transom needs more arch. 

 

You will note that I have left the templates on as well.  Ed recommends this in his book, Naiad, and I think its important.  If you lose your way with a piece, your puzzle wont fit together.  The templates keep you honest.  All of these pieces need to tenon into the sides of the aft fashion pieces, which will be tricky to say the least...

 

 

 

In the below photo, note how the aft portion of each piece ends at the rabbet of the stern piece.  I envision the planks nesting tightly into that rabbet.  This will all need to be faired once glued in and well supported.  I have to remind myself to not get carried away with fairing at this stage...

 

 

[GDM67]

_{I am now 60-hours into this build and am exceedingly happy with the results.  This is the first time I have tracked my hours in a build and I actually like doing so.  I average about an hour a day.  My goal is to get into the shop for atleast a few minutes each night, which usually turns into more.  This tactic has kept me fresh and keeps progress steady.} 

 

_{Understandably, I took very few pictures of the rework and am finally on to new stuff.}

 

_{Below is a shot of the port bow. Please note that everything is in the "rough" at this stage.  I will fine tune later - yes, this drives me crazy...  The air gaps still need to be cleaned out and filed straight as well.}

_{The shoe should be thinner than it is here.  I missed that tiny detail, but its small.  Note the absence of Hawse Timber #5, that is yet to be done.  An interesting detail to note is the size of the stem as compared to the knee of the head.  Note the subtle taper?  These are the kind of details you get in an authentic scratch build.  Obsessing about these things is a passion.}

 

 

Note the use of the uprights in aligning the toptimbers to the base drawing.  The photo shows them just slightly off due to the angle of the shot.  They are dead on.  There still needs to be some slight tumblehome added to these hawse pieces.  There are templates to help with this.

 

 

Here is a shot from the inside.  I used boxwood chocks to contrast the swiss pear frames.  Most of these will not show in the final product, but I will be spending a lot of time with this build, so I wanted them to look pretty.

 

 

The last show is of the first free standing cant frames.  I will put temporary pine spacers to secure them in place as Ed describes in the book, Naiad.   You can see how the framing square and uprights are used to ensure the frames are both perpendicular to the base line and the toptimbers are on the mark.

Edited March 7, 2016 by GDM67

[Beef Wellington]

Gary, I'm in awe, lovely work doesn't begin to describe it.

[dgbot]

Ed,  can you share a little more detail on the black glue and perhaps a photo?  I have tried it several times, first with a powdered acrylic and second with a acrylic pigment paint.  Both times, the glue congealed instantly.  I think that I might have invented a new silly putty/crazy glue concoction!  It ruined my wifes mortar and pestle...  All in the name of ship building

 

What exactly is artist pigment?  My local art store tries to sell me a single pigmented black acrylic paint tube.

 

Thanks! G

Coming in a little late on this build and hve found it a learning experience.  On the coloring of your glue have you experimented with India ink?  I have seen this used many times or does it depend on the glue?  Your cant rames look great.

David B

[GDM67]

The bow of this ship has certainly been a challenge.  Here she is, still very much in the rough.  I have installed through frame V.  The sheer line still needs to be defined, but I will worry about that later.  I experimented with a yellow Titebond woodglue that I am not a fan of.  Switching back to Elmers Carpenter - a white glue for the duration. At this stage, I am 72-hours into the build, again, averaging about an hour or so each day.

 

 

You will note that the template is still on the port frame V. As per the book, I am trying to keep the templates on as long as possible.

 

The shape of the bow at the sheer line has turned out a little sharp.  I plan to correct this in the planking stage.  Otherwise, she is symmetrical. 

[albert]

Very beautiful work.