74-gun ship by Gaetan Bordeleau - 1:24

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Sanding spree has began.

One question comes back often, how to sand inside curve; with around orbital sander.

To reduce the weight of the  belt sander 1 strap is added to support the weight. This is a camera belt recycled as belt sander belt.

[druxey]

Bring on the industrial strength equipment!

[BANYAN]

Seeing that last photo Gaetan really shows how big your model is.  Don't breathe in any of that dust mate!

 

cheers

 

Pat

[G. Delacroix]

Hello,

 

The tracing of the limber way is not the result of hazard or an approximation, it must be placed according to very precise rules.

 

(I hope that the translation of my text will be correct and understandable.)

First of all, it must always be placed in the middle of a strake to avoid disturbing the caulking of the shell, the oakum (tow ?) of which would inevitably block the channel when it’s in place. When it encounters the strake end, what happens at one time or another, an iron plate is placed under the joint.

The limber way must collect, under normal conditions, any infiltration water but especially the condensation water that forms in the hull (in the case of large waterways it no longer serves anything). To collect these "small waters", it’s imperative to be worked in a place where these waters can arrived, that’s means where the fills between the keel and the keelson leave a space forming receptacle. To cut the limber way in the deadwood as seen in a picture above is useless, technically and historically inexact.

In the central part of the vessel, the channel is located beneath the second strake curtain of which it follows the course. As it moves towards the ends, there is a place where the shapes of the hull begin to intercept the foot of the fills placed between the keel and the keelson causing the hole drilled at the foot of these fills to be raised. These holes passing through the foot of the fills must do their job, if covered by the planking, they are useless. The channel must be raised accordingly in order to collect the water present there without intercepting a strake caulking. It is then shifted from a strake of planking in height or two a few times.

 

GD

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Hi GD,  What would that look like in an image especially at the extremities?

[G. Delacroix]

-> GB: Despite your very unpleasant comments about my drawings, I post this sketch for the understanding of this forum members.

 

It can be seen that the transverse hole must be raised in the filling pieces in order to remain efficient. This also implies that the limber way must be able to collect the water, it must also be raised but especially staying under a strake.

 

Gérard Delacroix

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by G. Delacroix

[Hubac's Historian]

Out of curiosity, Gerard, in which epoch of naval architecture did the limber hole/limber way become a regular feature of French naval architecture?

[G. Delacroix]

Hello,

 

I have not read any particulars on this subject, but I imagine that the limber-way must exist since ships exist. 

In different forms perhaps, but it is necessary to drain the waters in one way or another.

 

GD

[jose_b]

Very clearful drawings, as usual. Thank you very much.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

 

As an example, here is a photo of a limber way on a ship.

The notch does not need to be very big.

http://www.atlasponant.fr/fiche/icono/Site/056KER001/#3

The building plank was 24 inches wide.

Reduced it to 19 inches.

It is now possible to work even closer to the work.

[Sailor1234567890]

Wow. Simply.... WOW!

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

On the pictures, we see the control plank for perpendicularity in 2 ways. Others are sanding setups for all the curves.

 

The main 2 ways to assemble frames to the keel use a jig to align the frames between them:

 

- a plank supports the frame contour. Frames are assembled upside down as Hahn did or reverse.

 

-Frames alignment can also be done another way; with  just a baguette to align frames. This baguette moves  the same way as the assembly goes.

 

The other part of this assembly is the frame sanding. Again, there are 2 ways to do the sanding : the easy way and the hard way.

 

When a jig is used to support frames, most of the sanding will be done after gluing all the frames and after taking the frames out of the mold. This method is much more restrictive because the accessibility to all the frame parts is restricted when it is in the mold.

 

The other method has the advantage of ease of maneuverability in all the ways you need. Sanding is much more easy, at least for a model at 1/24 scale. Part  which need to be sanded can easily be position. Also another very important part : height adjusting table. Working at the good height is often the difference between holding a heavy part easily or with much difficulty.

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

What would like the shorten version of a 74, something like this.

[Sailor1234567890]

Nope, stretch it out full size. She's looking great so far though. Looking forward to seeing more of your progress.

[BANYAN]

Hi Gaetan, you could also try to make her like an 'accordion' with a flexible bellows type construction to shorten/lengthen as required

 

Nice work by the way

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

6 months of work and  the last one, sanding only.

 

Vibrations transfer to the frames while sanding, especially with the orbital sander. One way to avoid this is to insert spacers between each frames. This way, each frame does not resonate as when we pinch a violin cord but all the frames become a whole unit and vibrations disperses in the whole assembly.

[DocBlake]

Amazing work.  Are the spacers permanent or temporary?  How did you fasten them in place?

[ChrisLBren]

Wow - nice work !!!!

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Quote

 

 

Hi Dave,

 

Spacers are temporary, they hold by pressure only, installed from 1 end toward mid ship

[Nek0]

I just discover your work, it's stunning ! Very impressive ! 1/24 for a 74 gunship is huge ! 

 

[noel_colledge]

Nice work, Have you given thought to the overall weight of your finished project and how you are going to move it to its final resting place? Your pictures put it into perspective just how big and heavy this is going to end up being.

[cabrapente]

At another time, I inserted pressure pieces and the keel was bent. How do you place them without deforming the keel?

Edited September 21, 2017 by cabrapente

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Hi noel_colledge,

 

The previous 74 guns 1/24 weighed 130 pounds. To move it, you need wheel as big as you can, the bigger, the easier, and I also a lifting table with a cylinder.

 

Good morning Carabrente,

 

When things are done correctly fillers inserts easily without pressure.  Fillers are all the same thickness at 95% and some are thicker. The idea is the same  as a pressure cooker, you need a valve to release pressure or else it will explode. The best things as others clearly well demonstrated is to a have a spacer not glued at every 4 to 6 frames.

[BANYAN]

Extraordinary - what a whopper of a ship!  Very nice work Gaetan, I look forward to your detail work.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Thank you Pat

 

Carabrente,

 

I forgot about the thickness off the spacers which must be few millimeters under the theoretical value which would be too stiff.  It is better not to calculate but it is better to try a thi.ckness which works easily

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

There was a bow in the keel, about 1/8 inch… too much pressure, I guess.

Off the spacers, rechecked 5 frames still not glued, keel is also in 2 parts.

And the bow disappeared, replaced spacers and lucky I am.

[rwiederrich]

Magnificent!  Just beautiful.

 

Rob

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

I did correct the spacers thickness on 1 section of about 20 frames.

I could fit the last spacer, but strength must be use, and this would be an error, not to correct it, because  this induce strength could bend some frames.

 

Roughly 1 spacer .215’’/ 20 frames : about .010’’ less : .215’’- .01 ‘’: .205’’ the new thickness.

 

For 60 frames, 60 times glue thickness changes the overall thickness. It is very difficult to do 60 frames with their components to exactly the same thickness  at 001’’ close.

Theoretical and practical thickness of the entire sandwich are different.

On 8 feet long, overall thickness was 1 spacer too thick , glue thickness is at least partially responsible and I am for the rest and even more.

 

Even if I could be precise at .001'', I would still have to subtract 60 frames, double thickness + 1 spacer: 60 X 3: 180 glue thickness probably at least .180''

[DocBlake]

This scale certainly provides some challenges.

[Dilbert55]

The plus/minus finished length of an assembled Boeing 747 (early in production) was approx. 1 inch due to accumulated variances during joining of fuselage sections and sub-assemblies.