Black wire for eye bolts/rings

[Johnnyreg]

Hi. I’m building a Swan class HMS Fly and I'm starting to think about stocking up with various sizes of black wire to make eye bolts using the twisting method, where do you guys get your black wire from, preferably in the uk for me, and what diameters do you use for 1:64? I’m trying to get diameters from the FFM books and 1” & 1.25” keep cropping up which equates to 0.4mm & 0.5mm @ 1:64

Edited March 27, 2018 by Johnnyreg

[Aleksei Domanov]

I use brass wire and then blacken eye bolt/rings made from.

Blackening is simple process using blackening powder

 

[Johnnyreg]

2 hours ago, Alexey Domanoff said:

I use brass wire and then blacken eye bolt/rings made from.

Blackening is simple process using blackening powder

 

Thanks Alexey.

Blackening is another skill I need to get into for the brass guns but I was hoping to get black copper wire as copper is easier to twist I think. I specifically want to make them like shown here

[Aleksei Domanov]

Brass is easy to twist as cooper. But can be easier blackened. If you're not sure in brass softness you may anneal brass before using.

Some times I blacken straight wire, some times result eye bolts/rings. I think you may blacken cooper wire before making rings using sulfuric ointment from drug store.

Here I've used it to blacken cooper stripes.

http://hms-vanguard.blogspot.com.by/2009/06/blog-post_02.html

 

 

 

[mtaylor]

To blacken copper, use Liver of Sulfur.   See EdT's log as he uses this exclusively and it does a beautiful job.

[Johnnyreg]

Lots of info here thanks to all.

I have found a bare copper wire source here in the UK at https://www.wires.co.uk/acatalog/cu_bare.html#aBC0500_2d125 so it looks as though this is what I need and some Liver of Sulfur. Was hoping for a ready made black solution. Note to self - don’t be lazy.

 

is there one solution that blackens both brass & copper well or is it horses for courses?

 

[Canute]

Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc, so the copper and brass blackeners should work on either. Aluminum and pot metals would use different agents. Like Mark said, Liver of Sulfur is one agent. You could also use blackeners from JAX.

[hornet]

Have used this for years. Available on eBay. Can be reused over and over. 

[Dan Vadas]

Try either THIS ONE or THIS ONE for Craft wire in the UK. Looks like they come in various suitable sizes and lots of other colours besides black.

 

Cheers, Danny

[Johnnyreg]

Thank you all for your great info and links and based on what you have given me I have ordered the following items to play about with:

Bare Brass Wire (0.4 & 0.5mm) from wires.co.uk here

Birchwood Casey Brass Black from Amazon UK here 

Black Enamelled Brass Wire (0.5mm) from wires.co.uk here

Artistic Black Enamelled Brass Wire (0.4 & 0.5mm) from SJ Jewellery Supplies here 

 

The Liver of Sulfur seems like good stuff, based on your comments and The Jax Pewter Black I couldn’t source from the UK so will see how the Birchwood Casey stuff works out first.

 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Johnnyreg

[Maury S]

John,

I think the "Artistic" brand wire is coated.  You have to remove the coating before any attempt at blackening.  Steel wool and a bath of Acetone usually works.  (Be very careful with acetone...quite volatile).

Maury

Edited March 28, 2018 by Maurys

[Johnnyreg]

Thanks Maury.

 

Apologies as I might not have made myself clear in the original post but I was after sourcing the pre-coated black copper wire because I was looking for a short cut (I’m lazy) to save me making the eyes/rings from bare copper and blacking afterwards. In my last post you can see I’ve left my options open with my purchases so I can do some tests and decide which gives the best results for me, either bare copper and blacken OR pre-coated black Artistic wire. 

Edited March 28, 2018 by Johnnyreg

[DelF]

I find the black coated wire a bit too shiny for my taste. I've tried black iron wire (from wires.co.uk) with some success. It's a dull dark gray, rather than pure black, but to my eye that looks more realistic for ironwork. Others have pointed out that iron rusts, but so far I've not had that problem. A coat of matt varnish should keep the air and moisture out (I hope!).

 

Derek

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Bead stringing suppliers and jewelry making suppliers have lots of wire styles and sizes and options. 

[6ohiocav]

 

John

Following up on JCFrankie's suggestion, while you are at the jewelry making supplier, pick up a pair of rounded pliers. I use a dull black steel wire and with the pliers, can twist out a slew of perfectly round eyebolts in quick order. The ends of the pliers are much smaller than the photo suggests.

 

Good luck.

[Johnnyreg]

Thanks Derek, Frankie, Darell & SpyGlass

 

I did order some Jewellery Round nosed pliers when I ordered the black wire as it happens and they look the business. The shine on the black Jewellery wire is something I could live with or fix as SpyGlass suggests.

 

I have been playing around with both the black wire and the bare wire I have received but can’t compare until I get the blackening stuff which hasn’t arrived yet. 

 

Im happy with my technique of making the eyes and rings

 

 

These are all with 0.4mm wire. I’ve also ordered some silver soldering bits and pieces (butane torch, silver solder paste, etc) for the bare brass ones. Silver soldering is a skill I learnt during my apprenticeship over 45 years ago but I’ve never done it since and not on anything this small, what could possibly go wrong 

 

I presume that with the black Jewellery wire you CA glue the rings ends together and touch up with paint or permanent pen?

 

 

[Johnnyreg]

Thanks SpyGlass.

I coiled them round a 2mm drill bit and snipped but they are over scale.

I hope to do some to scale so I have since ordered some finer wire at 0.2 & 0.3mm in both black Jewellery & bare copper.

The breaching tackle eyes/loops & rings done to scale at 1:64 & (full size) would be

* eye loops - 0.2 wire & 0.6mm hole (1/2” & 1-1/2”)

* breeching ring - 0.35 wire & 1.2mm hole (7/8” & 3”)

* breaching rope - 0.5mm (1-1/4”)

 

Not sure how the silver soldering will go at these sizes but will report back with the results (scrap copper maybe) 

 

 

[Johnnyreg]

Here are my attempts at the Breeching rings in both black Jewellery wire and Bare Copper. The divisions are mm by the way.

 

Everything is almost to scale but I have made changes as shown below. I rounded the 0.35mm up to 0.4mm because that’s all I have and the 0.2mm up to 0.3mm because I found the 0.2 wire a pig to work with. Does anyone else use 0.2mm successfully and is it strong enough? 

 

On 03/04/2018 at 9:48 AM, Johnnyreg said:

The breaching tackle eyes/loops & rings done to scale at 1:64 & (full size) would be

* eye loops - 0.2  0.3 wire & 0.6mm hole (1/2” & 1-1/2”)

* breeching ring - 0.35 0.4 wire & 1.2mm hole (7/8” & 3”)

* breaching rope - 0.5mm (1-1/4”)

 

 

The 2 rings on the left were joined with CA and touched up with a permanent marker.

The three on the right were silver soldered but they aren’t the first three I made as the previous ones have all been DESTROYED 

 

Through trial and error I found that, the join had to have no gap, and that just a tiny bit of silver solder paste applied with a pin was enough and the butane torch was best set at the lowest setting with the work piece heated slowly by flicking the flame on and off until the solder ran into the joint. I think it’s a case of you have to learn how to do it wrong before you learn how to do it right.

 

Still waiting for the blackening solution to be delivered but I will show them finished when it arrives.

 

 

I didn’t appreciate just at how tiny and fiddly these bits are because I’ve seen that many zoomed in pictures here on this site.

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Johnnyreg

[hornet]

Might I suggest when you use the blackening solution, you treat the wire BEFORE you make the eye bolts. Run the wire through some very fine emery paper then soak in white vinegar to remove any grease, such as the natural oil on your fingers, then follow the instructions on the blackening solution bottle to blacken your wire. 

 

Steve

[Johnnyreg]

Thanks Steve. That makes a lot of sense I will try that. I will have to re-blacken after silver soldering the rings though, is that a problem?

[davyboy]

Hi John,it's very easy to blacken copper with a liver of sulphur solution. Takes seconds to do after cleaning the part then just rinse off with water,you can also blacken copper items in situ then rinse it off. It doesn't do any damage to nor discolours the wood. Check out Ed Tostis' Young America build log,he uses it for all his copper work.

 

Is that very nice Tearoom still open in Harrogate ? I was in there several times many years ago,very nice pastries were enjoyed to be sure.

 

Dave 

[Johnnyreg]

Hi Dave.

 

Thanks for your tips. I’ve committed to Birchwood Casey Brass Black now (as recommended by Hornet) so will have to experiment with that. Not sure if you can brush this on locally. Still waiting for delivery but it’s 2 days late now so will have to chase the seller.

 

Yes Betty’s tearoom is still there. We don’t go in often as there is usually a queue full of tourists from Switzerland . They do nice biscuits too which come in nice handy tins.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by Johnnyreg

[hornet]

Yes, blackening solution will work on silver solder. You may have to apply more than once to get s good coverage. Just wondering why you need to silver solder your eye lots though? Seems like a bit of overkill to me  

[Johnnyreg]

Thanks Steve.

 

Just to clarify I’m not silver soldering the eyes but I am silver soldering the Breeching ring ends to close the ring after threading through the eye. I wrongly or rightly assumed every one did this. What do others do?

 

 

[hornet]

John

I’ve never found a situation where there was enough pressure on the ring to open it. So, for me, silver solder in this situation is unnecessary. 

[Johnnyreg]

Thanks Steve.

 

Interesting, I’ll see how easy it is to blacken when the darn solution arrives. Seller say I should have had it by now so is re-sending.

If it’s a pain to do I may reach the same conclusion and decide silver soldering the rings are a bit overkill too.

 

We are going away on Sunday for 5 days to Portsmouth to see HMS Victory   so I won’t get chance to do any blackening. Hopefully the solution will be waiting for me when I get back

[hornet]

I forgot to say, don’t leave items in the solution for too long, I have found that the blackening tends to come off if you do. I don’t know why. Rinse in fresh water and leave to dry on absorbent paper. Soak again if necessary. Some people dilute the solution and get good results, I usually use it undiluted. Experiment and see what works for you. I have collected the medicine cups that come with cough mixture and use them for this job, as well as to mix and dilute paint. Always use tweezers to pick up your copper/brass items so as not to get the oil from your fingers on them.This will affect the quality of the blackening. 

 

Cheers

Steve

Edited April 7, 2018 by hornet

[Johnnyreg]

Thanks again. All much needed good advice.

[aviaamator]

I'm made of ordinary steel wire.

Edited April 25, 2018 by aviaamator

[dvm27]

I've recently switched to Birchwood Casey Brass Black as I find it easier and more consistent than the Jax blackener. I also use 320 grit sandpaper on the brass (or before I form rings and other small items). Soak the piece in alcohol first (or vinegar) to degrease. The B.C. solution is applied with a small brush and only takes 10-15 seconds to work. Rinse in water then see if you want the piece darker. If so just repeat the above process.

 

I also do not solder my rings but do file the ends after forming the circle. This makes a neat joint. I can't imagine why you would need to solder the breeching rings unless your cannon was actually going to fire!

 

And I now use only silver soldering paste. It is self fluxing and flows beautifully, Check out  https://www.beaducation.com/pc/393-jewelry-making-tools-soldering-fusing-tools. Also, look at the videos on silver soldering and other jewelry work. they're terrific. And remember - you need a tight joint for silver solder to flow.