Sassafras 12 by ccoyle - Chesapeake Light Craft - FINISHED - 1:1 scale canoe - you read that right

[Bedford]

5 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 I quit vacuuming the inside of my truck years ago, no carpet, just a rubber mat sill to sill. I use the leaf blower, much simpler. 

 Nice job on the canoe, Chris. You have many leisurely days out on the water to look forward to.  

Mate, I used to have a Defender, the floor was just above the door sills and it was designed to be hosed out, best way ever to clean out the floor of a car that gets muddy.

 

[Bedford]

Chris that's really starting to look like a boat, good on you.

 

The feeling you'll get as you first set out in her is something to look forward to.

[Keith Black]

Chris, Merry Christmas to you and yours and a Happy New Year.......Keith

[ccoyle]

I will try to stay positive with this post. Wish me luck. 😜

 

I decided it was time to attempt my first ever fiberglass job. The result looks like I've never done fiberglass before.

 

Things started off well enough. I got the fillets between panels 1 and 2 done quickly and without much difficulty. (The spreader bar in the image is temporary.)

 

Spreading out the fiberglass cloth was a bit more of a challenge, but I got that done, too.

 

So then it was time to add the resin ... and that's where the wheels fell off. Despite my best efforts to get the cloth as smooth as possible, once the resin went on every slightest imperfection in the cloth turned into a wet, sticky wrinkle. It was a nightmare trying to get the resin spread quickly and all the tiny wrinkles ironed out. Time turned out to be my enemy, as once again the working time for the resin proved to be too short. I didn't take a picture of this step, as I was very unhappy with the process and result and have decided to postpone photographing it until after the resin hardens and I can better assess what the true damage is. Hopefully it will not be as bad as I fear and Mr. Sander and me will be able to put things right. Hopefully.

[Bedford]

Don't feel too bad, I had trouble dealing with the epoxy too although the hull on my boat is not fibreglassed. Remember that you can heat epoxy with a hot air gun to soften it so a sharp chisel can slice though it then you only have to do a little sanding.

 

How much did you mix up?

Did you try to do it all in one go?

 

I think the trick is to mix small batches, work that in nice and neatly before making another small batch etc.

The different batches won't be a problem as far as the continuous bond goes because it takes hours for it to go right off and as long as the previous patch is still sticky the new batch will bond to it properly.

[ccoyle]

I had another go at the fiberglassing today and things went much better, faster, and easier. Why is it always the first crack at any new skill that sucks the worst? My daughter simply observed that it's like the first pancakes in a batch, which I thought was a good analogy.

[Old Collingwood]

2 hours ago, ccoyle said:

I had another go at the fiberglassing today and things went much better, faster, and easier. Why is it always the first crack at any new skill that sucks the worst? My daughter simply observed that it's like the first pancakes in a batch, which I thought was a good analogy.

I  can relate to that Chris  with everything I do  - I have got sleeping now  to a T.😁    but yep deffo agree mate.

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

I do a lot of fiberglass patching on small scales { patching trailer roofs}.   I'll lay down a layer of resin and then spread out the cloth patch.  another coat goes over it and either with spatula or brush,  it is smoothed out.   with the few model boats I've done,  I don't usually use the cloth.  the resin is more than sufficient in sealing the hull so it won't leak.......but then again,  I've not done an R/C boat yet,  so I haven't been able to prove my theory.  the resin give me the smooth hull I'm looking for,  and with what I've seen,  I really don't want the cloth texture to ruin it.  for a large scale job such as yours,  it would likely call for some type of roller to smooth out the cloth before the second coat is applied.  for the second coat,  it would probably be good to wait till the initial application has had some time to set.....the second coat would also serve as a leveling effect.  in any case........I'm glad it's working better for you

[ccoyle]

Well, this has really been an up-and-down roller coaster ride -- some parts go easy, others are a train wreck, a few are both in turns. Here's where I'm at now.

 

 

Along with my crappy fiberglassing, you can see the trouble I have had so far with removing the tape, which I expected would be easy (ha!). The tape's purpose was to keep the resin-impregnated fiberglass cloth from sticking to the third strakes, and it was supposed to be easily removed by sliding a utility knife along the seam between the 2nd and 3rd strakes. Nobody warned me though about the trouble that results from resin pooling up along the seam and beneath the cloth (although it makes perfect sense now). In those areas, the knife doesn't slide easily in the seam, but rather wants to skate along the top of the hardened resin/cloth.

 

Ugh. I'm having so much fun. But the next one will be easier, right?

[Old Collingwood]

I dont really know much about resins  and this will  sound neive  but could the resin coats have not been applied  in thinner coats with a wide brush  but far more of them over the top of the previous ones  after thorough hardening between layers   - would that not work?

 

OC.

[ccoyle]

Dunno -- I'm just learning about all the possible mistakes by making them! 😆  I'm not too worried though. I figure a few patches, a lot of sanding, and some paint will cover over a multitude of boat-building sins.

[Bedford]

3 hours ago, ccoyle said:

Ugh. I'm having so much fun. But the next one will be easier, right?

As Oddball said, "have a little faith baby, have a little faith"!

 

It does get easier but it's a very steep learning curve and the mistakes take a lot of sanding/filling/elbow grease to fix but you'll get there.

 

You might want to have a look at a product called Peel Ply, it is for use with epoxy and is laid on over the epoxy and smoothed out, in theory as I understand it, the epoxy adheres to the ply in a surface tension way but not a glue way so you peel it off after.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Bedford
added info

[Bedford]

1 hour ago, Old Collingwood said:

I dont really know much about resins  and this will  sound neive  but could the resin coats have not been applied  in thinner coats with a wide brush  but far more of them over the top of the previous ones  after thorough hardening between layers   - would that not work?

 

OC.

OK, I'm no expert but I've been through the process.

 

The epoxy resin is naturally quite thick so you can't really put it on thinly, having said that you can thin it with metho (you're an Aussie so you know what I mean) but it thins by way of spreading the stuff and creating micro pockets between epoxy bits and when it evaporates it leaves micro gaps in the epoxy which allows water to get to the wood.

 

The Aussie epoxy I used has the option to thin the first coat with a rot resisting thinner designed to allow it to penetrate more and it doesn't leave the gaps because it's epoxy based. I don't know if it is available elsewhere or if it works with other epoxies because the stuff I used is very low in toxicity.

[ccoyle]

My messy fiberglass job has created a can load of extra work for myself, but I did manage to trim some more of the ragged edges today, and I also hit upon a workable method of tidying up the sharp edges and tape residue that are left over -- my Dremel tool skills have come in handy in this regard. This photo shows the cleaned-up edge I was able to get before it got too dim in my garage to continue working.

 

[mtaylor]

You didn't have to go down to bare wood did you?  Might need some touch up with the epoxy if you did, I'd think.

[ccoyle]

8 hours ago, mtaylor said:

You didn't have to go down to bare wood did you? 

 

There's no fiberglass or epoxy yet above the second strake. Everything gets a coat of epoxy eventually.

[ccoyle]

I got the seams cleaned up, but there were still bits of blue tape residue visible. I decided to epoxy the seams with a wood flour/epoxy mix. It hides the remaining residue and ultimately will strengthen the seam, so why not? I didn't take a picture of this step, because it's not particularly visually interesting. Once the epoxy sets, the next step will be adding the interior rub rails.

[bruce d]

Chris, I am looking forward to spring and a picture of you on the poopdeck of your canoe.  😁

Looking good.

[ccoyle]

1 hour ago, bruce d said:

I am looking forward to spring and a picture of you on the poopdeck of your canoe.

 

Such a photo would indicate that something really, really bad happened! 😆

[ccoyle]

On we go.

 

This first photo shows one of my fiberglassing boo-boos. I trimmed away the excess cloth and sanded the sharp edges smooth. Now, as far as a repair goes, I'm thinking that perhaps the easiest thing to do would be to sand down the spot level with the surrounding fiberglass and then simply fill the divot with some thickened epoxy. Any thoughts on this? I don't think that there will be any structural issues with the few spots I need to patch -- as you can see, there's already an epoxy fillet beneath this particular spot.

 

 

Next task was to finish sealing the interior of the bow and stern compartments -- or perhaps that's bow and bow compartments since both ends are identical at this point. Eventually I'll have to pick one end or the other as the bow. I didn't photograph this step, as it's quite messy, since the work has to be done at very awkward angles inside the cramped compartments.

 

Then came the interior rub rails. First bit is to finish widening the pre-cut slots in the bulkheads.

 

 

I intended to do both rails today, since I was able to dry fit the first one with only half of the clamps I have on hand. But of course once I got the rail slathered in epoxy, the stuff acted like a lubricant, meaning I had to use all of my clamps to get it to stay in place. There is a lot of tension on this poor piece of 1x1 until the epoxy sets -- notice I have my temporary spreader in place.

 

 

So, that's it for at least another 24 hours.

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, ccoyle said:

once I got the rail slathered in epoxy, the stuff acted like a lubricant

Chris, I'm sorry but I laughed like #ell because it sounds exactly like some of my learning experiences. Has Acetone become your best friend? 

[Bedford]

On the topic of epoxy grease, yes I've experienced that on my boat in very upsetting places that took some effort to fix. My solution was not to rely on clamps to prevent movement, rather I doweled the pieces so they couldn't slip or I screwed them on while the epoxy set. Some screws I removed and back filled with epoxy and some became a feature of the boat because they were in places I didn't want visible epoxy hole filling. I used silicone bronze screws so it looks good and won't rust.

 

If you use screws you can wipe a tiny amount of vaseline  or similar on them so they release or if you time it right you can unscrew them once the epoxy has hold but before it sets completely OR if they can't be undone simply heat the head with a soldering iron to warm the screw until the epoxy will release it.

 

As for the patch, yep just fill it with thickened epoxy because it's structural too.

[Roger Pellett]

In working on boats I found that drywall screws make great temporary clamps.  Dipped in wax they are easily removed.  Holes are then puttied up with thickened epoxy.

[Landlubber Mike]

So that's why I couldn't find any clamps at Home Depot.  Now I know!  😳

 

Great job Chris!

[ccoyle]

More progress. The second rail was added -- had a bear of a time installing it by myself. Ruined a t-shirt in the process when the epoxy-slathered 1x1 sprang back on me -- TWICE. Now I have a dedicated epoxy-work shirt. 🙄

 

 

The manual recommends using a Japanese pull saw to make a neat joint where the rails meet. I don't have a pull saw and am not going to buy one just for one project, so I made the joint as best I could with a regular hand saw and then filled in the gaps with thickened epoxy.

 

It was then time to flip the project over and continue work on the outside in preparation for the exterior fiberglass. First, some sanding to take down globs of epoxy on the panels that will be fiberglassed.

 

 

Next, all of the exterior seams need to be filled in. The panels were tack-welded during the initial construction phase. Here, four seams are done, along with the spots along the keel that needed to be filled in. After this bit of work, which required two batches of epoxy, I ran out of gumption and good seeing light, so that was it for today. Four more seams to go, and that will be the last of the major seam work.

 

 

Cheers!

[Roger Pellett]

Do you have to fiberglass the outside of the hull?  It will add considerable weight.  If you can avoid it several coats of good quality marine paint should be more than adequate.  If you are concerned about leakage, put a light inside of the hull, turn off the lights inside the garage and mark any areas that need sealing up.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Roger Pellett

[ccoyle]

1 hour ago, Roger Pellett said:

Do you have to fiberglass the outside of the hull?

 

Only the bottom two panels.

[Roger Pellett]

Yeah, that would give you some abrasion resistance pulling it over a beach.

[shipman]

I so envy you, Chris.

I spent several weeks of research at the beginning of this winter, making plans to build an 11' dinghy.

Bought a heap of books, watched loads of video's, until my confidence reached a peak of enthusiasm.

Before I went any further a lightbulb came on in my head.....perhaps I should look into the regulations governing watercraft use here in the UK.

YIKES! Basically, even a basic plank and paddle is governed by formidable rules, regulations, and license restrictions. Just to comply with the basics would cost as much as a small car to run each year!

My intended use would have been for occasional recreational purposes. Frankly, the costs of red tape compliance shot a big hole in my dreams.

End of project....still born! Oh hum.

Good luck, Chris.

[ccoyle]

Sorry to hear that, Shipman. Over-regulation stinks.

 

Today I finished the remaining seams. Some touch-ups will be needed in a few spots where the epoxy has seeped down into some of the larger previously unfilled areas. Touching them up while the epoxy is partially set is just too messy, IMO, so I will wait until after everything has cured. It all looks a little messy at this point. Part of the messy look is actual mess, and part is due to the touch of color that results anywhere the resin touches bare wood, even if it is cleaned up afterwards. All of this will eventually be hidden beneath paint.