HMS Sphinx 1775 by Jasseji (Jacek) - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[Jasseji]

Boring Conference Calls can be used for other stuff as well:

 

Unfortunately Chargate has it's Victims too (repairable tho)

 

 

@Chuck in UK Glenn's Thread you mentioned about some technique which requires very little sanding

Edited November 2, 2021 by Jasseji

[James H]

18 minutes ago, Jasseji said:

Boring Conference Calls can be used for other stuff as well:

 

Unfortunately Chargate has it's Victims too (repairable tho)

 

 

@Chuck in UK Glenn's Thread you mentioned about some technique which requires very little sanding

Just use a 15cm steel rule (or similar), wrapped in 400 grit paper. Take your time.

[Jasseji]

8 minutes ago, James H said:

Just use a 15cm steel rule (or similar), wrapped in 400 grit paper. Take your time.

yes but Chuck mentioned something about "technique with very little sanding required" in regards to Char removal, i was wondering what he meant by that  

[James H]

1 hour ago, Jasseji said:

yes but Chuck mentioned something about "technique with very little sanding required" in regards to Char removal, i was wondering what he meant by that  

As well as removing char, you also need to smooth out the rough surface that the laser creates. I can't see anything other than sanding or scraping which will magically reduce any workload on char removal. Even if you could dissolve the char, the rough surface would still remain. 

[Chuck]

For parts like that...no silver bullet I am afraid.   Just need to be careful.   But looking at the shape of those parts and the way they are cut, they lend themselves to breaking along the cross-grain.  So if it were me cleaning those,  I would preemptively break those moldings in the most delicate spots such as the areas that broke for you.  I would have carefully cut those cross-grain vertical pieces away so I could more easily hold the molding and sand them a little at a time individually down their length with some 420 grit sandpaper.   I would cut the vertical pieces free right up against the fancy molding.  Indicated by the red lines.  But thats just me.  If you are really worried about placing the vertical elements back where they should be, you could also cut them free leaving a small nub against the fancy molding.  But leave the break point as a clean break so the pieces will glue back without even ever seeing the seams.

 

 

Then I would assemble the moldings separately on the model and add those vertical pieces after the fact....all cleaned and crisp.   Any gaps would be filled before the second layers were added.   I wouldnt have laser cut those moldings in one piece.   The simple breaks (or absence) of the etched lines of the fancy molding are more than enough of a reference to see where the vertical pieces like fenders and such go.  But if I felt I needed more reference I would have drawn them with a pencil before removing as indicated by the blue lines.  But again thats just me.   For me as a builder there would be no reason to make cleaning the char more difficult to try and attempt it in one huge piece like that, and as such I would remove all vertical element cross grain pieces before char removal.  They are super easy to add and locate back later on.  I would use a sharp blade to do so.  Lightly score the back side and bend to snap them clean away.  I would leave the area as a clean break with no sanding so the pieces removed will fit back perfectly without any issue when the time comes.  Especially since they will be covered up with a second layer.  Its just a different approach...one that would make me more comfortable.

[Chuck]

This means however that you wont have such an "error-proof" reference for where to place the moldings on the hull.  But I think you could start with the shear molding and then add the verticals.  Then the second molding....repeat etc.  Although I think Chris added references on the planked laser etched hull as well.

 

But that presents another problem possibly....if you are too heavy sanding the sides of the molding and make them noticeable narrower then those etched reference lines on the hull will be visible.  So use very fine sandpaper and a very light touch.  But it is very much a necessity.  Although those areas are likely to be painted blue and covered with the frieze so no worries. 

 

The other option depending on you comfort zone would be to discard the laser etched molding aside from the top piece with fancy volutes and scrape you own for the lower two....then there is no char at all to remove.  But I realize many wont feel comfortable with that and want to use all of the kit supplied pieces.  Its a choice that builders can make after weighing their options.   There are quite a few options depending on the skill level of the builder.

[glbarlow]

The other approach to reduce sanding is the scrape the char with a #11 blade.  A lot of it can be removed quickly leaving a lot less to sand. Of course holding these small parts in one hand with a blade in your other hand requires extreme caution and going very slow.

[mtaylor]

7 hours ago, glbarlow said:

The other approach to reduce sanding is the scrape the char with a #11 blade.  A lot of it can be removed quickly leaving a lot less to sand. Of course holding these small parts in one hand with a blade in your other hand requires extreme caution and going very slow.

I'd use a small vise with the rubber inserts to clamp the part. The rubber deflects and holds the wood without marking it.

[Jasseji]

After failing to fit the Bow Rails in one piece, i went with Chucks suggestion to chop up the rest in more manageable pieces.

The cuts on the Vertical connectors will be hidden by the Channel Knees.

 

End-Result on Port Side:

 

Some corrections in the Wale paintjob required (also some touchups in the Quarter gallery Area) and i can move to the other side

[Chuck]

That is the cleanest set of molding I have seen on any Sphinx build to date.  Well done. 

[Blue Ensign]

Well done Jacek, what a difference the Chuck approach has. 👍

 

B.E.

[Jasseji]

56 minutes ago, Blue Ensign said:

Well done Jacek, what a difference the Chuck approach has. 👍

 

B.E.

Yes, Chopping them up makes it easier to DeChar - also, i have removed all the linings between the gunports before gluing the molding in place and shaped and fitted the pieces which go between the gunports separately (mostly because i realised, that James' approach of cutting them with pliers and filing in place destroys the paintwork inside the Gunports in my case, also the pressure of pliers can destroy the mouldings themselves ).

 

Starboard side is a work in progress now, scraping the mouldings one by one now and only will start gluing when i have all cleaned up (takes time but i can do these parts during Conference Calls at work).

 

Looking at the pics tho, one thing i wont be able to do is to leave bare wood below the wales, i screwed up here as i forgot the wale pattern when i was doing the 2nd planking (the "best" 3 planks are hidden under the wale) and it just doesnt look presentable now. I am thinking between White and Ochre paint for the area between the wale and waterline (if i choose white, i'd consider coppering below the waterline too)

[hollowneck]

Jacek,

That's exactly what I dd with these pieces: cut them into bite-size chunks very carefully and THEN de-char and mount them.

Chuck has also suggested just tossing these (with the exception of the upper volute piece) and making one's own. This requires accurately cut 1.5-2mm hardwood strips (pear in this instance for aesthetic reasons) and making a necessary scraper tool.

 

Ron

 

[myxyzptlyk2003]

Cutting those pieces up would scare me no end.    Any actual cutting would remove some (albeit small) amount of material making the cut up piece "smaller"than the original.      The only way I could think of with these delicate pieces is to maybe score them and then break them gently?

[myxyzptlyk2003]

Given the results I am seeing here compared to my poor attempt, I am very tempted to get another kit and give these methods a go.     Or I will wait until Chris's next larger model?

[Jasseji]

44 minutes ago, hollowneck said:

Jacek,

That's exactly what I dd with these pieces: cut them into bite-size chunks very carefully and THEN de-char and mount them.

Chuck has also suggested just tossing these (with the exception of the upper volute piece) and making one's own. This requires accurately cut 1.5-2mm hardwood strips (pear in this instance for aesthetic reasons) and making a necessary scraper tool.

 

Ron

 

I have a lot of pear left and cutting such thin pieces should not be too big of a problem, i am not sure tho, if i'd be able to make those scrapes

[Glenn-UK]

17 minutes ago, myxyzptlyk2003 said:

Given the results I am seeing here compared to my poor attempt, I am very tempted to get another kit and give these methods a go.     Or I will wait until Chris's next larger model?

Due to my poor attempt at building the v1 so far (the kit is excellent but I need to improve my build skills) I have bought a v2 kit, which is currently waiting in the shipyard while I press on with completing the v1 kit.

[Jasseji]

25 minutes ago, myxyzptlyk2003 said:

Cutting those pieces up would scare me no end.    Any actual cutting would remove some (albeit small) amount of material making the cut up piece "smaller"than the original.      The only way I could think of with these delicate pieces is to maybe score them and then break them gently?

I have cut the vertical Tabs connecting the long pieces together with a thin knife plade and i use a file and sandpaper only between the places the Tabs have been. 

 

When glued to the model, the Cuts will be hidden behind the supporting knees of the chainplates/Channel so even if they are smaller by a tiny bit, it wont be visible (if you wanted to Look at those places on the finished model, you'd have to Look behind the assortment of lanyards connecting the deadeyes) 

[myxyzptlyk2003]

53 minutes ago, Jasseji said:

I have cut the vertical Tabs connecting the long pieces together with a thin knife plade and i use a file and sandpaper only between the places the Tabs have been. 

 

When glued to the model, the Cuts will be hidden behind the supporting knees of the chainplates/Channel so even if they are smaller by a tiny bit, it wont be visible (if you wanted to Look at those places on the finished model, you'd have to Look behind the assortment of lanyards connecting the deadeyes) 

True.   But since I am not rigging this model due to storage limitations those joints would be fairly visible.

[mtaylor]

7 hours ago, Jasseji said:

Looking at the pics tho, one thing i wont be able to do is to leave bare wood below the wales, i screwed up here as i forgot the wale pattern when i was doing the 2nd planking (the "best" 3 planks are hidden under the wale) and it just doesnt look presentable now. I am thinking between White and Ochre paint for the area between the wale and waterline (if i choose white, i'd consider coppering below the waterline too)

I'm going to take that same approach.  Somewhere, I messed up in lining off the hull or maybe tapering the blanks.  Not a big issue but I'm not happy with the planking and it's no fault of Chris or anyone else but me..  A good sanding and paint.   I've been looking at models of this time period (via Google and museums) and am leaning toward white stuff up to the water line and then black down to the waterline.   I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

[Jasseji]

Decorations Commencing.

 

I am Actually enjoying this a lot, every 5 minutes i spend on the model gives visible changes

 

 

(yes, i noticed now i have forgotten to clean up one of the vertical tabs of the molding, cant really do anything about it now, maybe will try to rip it out but i am afriad that it would damage too much around it)

[CaptnBirdseye]

Looks good to me 👍

[Jasseji]

Sitting at this stage for the last few days, i am exploring ideas how to fix this issue...

 

There are some:

1. Due to the mistakes in the Counter/Fascia positioning, the lower rail on the Galleries is well, too low, hence only the bottom part of the decoration will fit (still have to reposition that one rail tho)

2. i screwed up both the Gallerie length forward as well as the fascia curve on the Starboard side (on port too but it's less prominent there)

 

So what i will have to do, propable next steps:

- Fix the rail position so it is paralell to the middle

- attach the lowermost decoration below the gallery

- Design some new decoration to go in the space between the middle and lower rails

- move the "flower" which was supposed to be in front of the galleries to the back (already done as you can see, there was a big gap at the back and the flower wouldnt fit in the front)

 

The Gold paint is refusing to stay properly on the frieze work, i will have to do touch0ups before i start with the deadeyes (after fitting the deadeyes this area will be inaccessible by brush i think)

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Jasseji

[Glenn-UK]

29 minutes ago, Jasseji said:

Sitting at this stage for the last few days, i am exploring ideas how to fix this issue...

 

You could always take my approach and buy a second kit🤣, yours look much better than mine however so I am sure you can fix the issues.

 

I am currently working on the quarterdeck and forecastle on my V1 kit, as soon as that is complete I will start work on the v2 kit

[Jasseji]

3 minutes ago, glennard2523 said:

You could always take my approach and buy a second kit🤣, yours look much better than mine however so I am sure you can fix the issues.

 

I am currently working on the quarterdeck and forecastle on my V1 kit, as soon as that is complete I will start work on the v2 kit

Well, no ?  I am waiting for Chris' Bigger Ship and all the lessons learned here will be applied to it

 

The Galleries themselves are purely cosmetic here, if i can find a way to make the one side at least to look good, then it's not a big deal for me, as long as it is "clean". Nobody will ever see the other side so they wont be able to compare if it isnt an exact mirror copy

Edited November 10, 2021 by Jasseji

[Glenn-UK]

19 minutes ago, Jasseji said:

Well, no ?  I am waiting for Chris' Bigger Ship and all the lessons learned here will be applied

My righthand side of the Sphinx is the one I'll use for display purposes. I will also buy the bigger ship when it becomes available to add to my Vanguard Model collection.

[mtaylor]

The gold on the photo etch.... are you primering first?  I've not done much photo etch and this kit will my first major effort but in the past, I've had to clean the brass in acetone, rinse, dry, put in some vinegar for about 15 minutes to give it some "tooth" and then rinse and dry.  Once the cleaning and etching the tooth, I've painted.  

 

What little testing I've done on this kit's brass, tells me just primer.  Seems the recommended "gold" doesn't like bare metal.

[glbarlow]

Acetone bath, rinse in distilled water, then prime or blacken (one or the other depending on purpose/finish) is how I do PE. 

[Jasseji]

7 hours ago, mtaylor said:

The gold on the photo etch.... are you primering first?  I've not done much photo etch and this kit will my first major effort but in the past, I've had to clean the brass in acetone, rinse, dry, put in some vinegar for about 15 minutes to give it some "tooth" and then rinse and dry.  Once the cleaning and etching the tooth, I've painted.  

 

What little testing I've done on this kit's brass, tells me just primer.  Seems the recommended "gold" doesn't like bare metal.

Yes, i am using Vallejo Primer and applying it with an Airbrush. 

 

The primer is sticking to the Brass without problems, It's the Gold paint which peeps off from the primer. Anyway, will Touch them up after they are fitted on the Model, no big deal

[Jasseji]

A little side-Project

 

 

Although i think the figures turned out a bit too tall 

 

(No, i do not plan to use that Cannon on the model - although it does look quite good but i wouldnt be able to paint it like it is now)