HMS Sphinx 1775 by Glenn-UK - FINISHED - Vanguard Models - 1:64 - V2 Kit by Glenn Shelton

[Glenn-UK]

I received a very nice delivery from UPS this morning. Yes the V2 kit has arrived.

 

 

 

My plan with the V2 Sphinx kit build is to:

 

a) take my time, making sure I am totally happy with everything before parts are finally assembled

b) try to be much more careful with this build, my aim is to significantly reduce the number of silly mistakes I normally make

c) try out some different ideas to improve my building skills, using the additional spare parts I've ordered.

d) take note of the lessons learnt so far with my current build, which has become a practice build

e) to have fun and to enjoy the V2 Sphinx kit build and to start and keep a build log charting my progress.

f) to continue with the V1 kit build for the time being which is now being used as a practice build.

[CaptnBirdseye]

Better luck with this one, Glenn. I'm sure you'll be ok now with the lessons you've already learnt on V1.

I'll befollowing this one too 👍

Edited November 3, 2021 by RockinBudgie

[Glenn-UK]

I am planning to start work on the v2 kit in the next day or two so exciting times ahead

[Glenn-UK]

I have reached the stage with the V1 HMS Sphinx build where I am happy to stop work, a picture of the V1 build is shown below

 

The shipyard has now been tidied to make sure everything is ready for the V2 build

 

 

With @Chuck words regarding laser char still ringing in my ears I feel duty bound to ensure I removed the laser char from all the parts with this build.

 

Starting with the cradle, which will be become redundant later on in the build process I used a technique suggested by @James H to remove the laser char from the angles. The method is to wrap sandpaper around a small steel ruler and to use the thin edge to remove the char. It worked very well. I used a combination of sandpaper and standing sticks to remove the laser char from all the other edges.

 

This photo shows all the cradle parts with the laser char removed and ready for assembly

 

The cradle has now been assembled but I have not added any glue as I am planning to try some painting techniques. The completed cradle will be painted black. Therefore I need to disassemble the cradle so each part can be painted individually when the material I have ordered arrives in the next day or two. I am aware there is some remnants of laser char on the top edge of the right hand end piece which will be removed before I start the painting phase.

Edited November 15, 2021 by glennard2523

[KirbysLunchBox]

I will be following along on this one too!

[Jasseji]

No char on the Build cradle

 

Arent you overdoing a bit here ?

[yvesvidal]

You are very brave to start a second build of the same ship.

 

I will be following your progress and I am sure this time, it is going to be a museum piece, as the V1 was not that bad and would have pleased quite a few collectors.

 

Yves

[Glenn-UK]

When I bought the V2 kit I also order some spare sheets so I could try  some experimentation and not to worry too much if I damaged the parts. I am also also trying to take much more time and care this time around.

 

I started with the assembly of the stern bulkheads (13 and 13-1). I am still unsure how much I need to fair this assembly, with respect to the edge between bulkheads 13 and 13-1, so any advice greatly appreciated, I have the spares available so I can redo this assembly if required. I will leave as is for the time being and will fair further prior to the planking phase if necessary once I have tried laying some planks to check how they flow across the bulkheads.

 

 

I have also built and faired the bulkhead 1 assembly. Again it may require additional fairing before the planking phase, and I do have spares available if I need to revisit this.

 

One of the concerns I had with the V1 kit was how proud the vertical and horizontal patterns were from the outer edge of the bulkheads which then required a great deal of sanding. With that in mind I have been test fitting the various parts and in general my initial tests would indicate the bottom edge of the horizontal gun port patterns is flush with the outer edge of the bulkhead but sits 1 to 2mm proud at the top edge, see photos below. I still need to do a few checks, one being with the bulkheads dry fitted to the keel and to then dry fit the pattern. I have already realised I did not fit these patterns correctly on my V1 build.

 

The excess material can be seen at the top

 

Moving on to the vertical gun port patterns, when fitted correctly there seem to be a really good fit. The first thing to note is there is a right and wrong way to fit each gun port. When fitted correctly they are flush with the vertical gun port patterns.

 

 

A messy work station, as I currently releasing the various parts from the MDF sheets and shows the vertical and horizontal gun port patterns test fit.

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by glennard2523

[Glenn-UK]

With a little bit more of dry fit experimentation the penny finally dropped why the horizontal gun port patterns sit flush with the bulkhead at the bottom and are not sit flush at the top of the bulkhead. The bulkhead area where these patterns are located is curved which explains why this is the case. I may experiment with filing some angles on the horizontal gun port patterns slots, using one of the spare parts I have, to get the part to sit flush which should then simplify the sanding process to remove laser char prior to fitting the outer bulwark patterns. I also need to check how this assembly looks with regards to the fitting of the inner bulwarks as the inner surfaces also need to be flush again with the removal of laser char.

 

The smaller vertical gun port patterns are curved to match the bulkheads and tend to be flush fitting with the horizontal gun part pattern, with the exception of the bottom edges in some places.

 

This photo, taken at gun port 7 / bulkhead 8 provides a nice illustration of how the parts look when fitted

 

I certainly did not take enough care with the V1 build to check how these parts will look when properly fitted which resulted in me not fitting them properly. This error on my V1 build was then probably the starting point of the subsequent alignment issues I had. I am really pleased I have already taken on aboard some lessons learnt from the V1 build such as:

 

a) Trying to understanding the design processes better and how the parts should look when correctly fitted, such as detailed in this post

b) To take much more time and care with each build stage, I am in no rush this time around to glue parts together

c) To look ahead at the different build build stages, drying fitting as much as I can

 

I also plan to check the fitting of the following items before I actual start the assembly process in earnest, noting I will have to remove the bulkhead 13 infill piece to do so:

a) Quarterdeck beam spacing patterns

b) Stern counter frames (inner, middle and outer) as I seem to recall these were a very tight fit with my V1 build

c) Stern frame spacer beam

 

This photo is an example of dry fitting multiple parts to get an idea of how things should look. Since taking this photo I did dry fitted many more vertical gun port patterns.

Edited November 18, 2021 by glennard2523

[Glenn-UK]

Good planning and preparation is the solid foundation for any successful project and is something I'm are striving for with regards to my V2 build.

 

I have now test fitted the stern counter frames, and as you will note from the photo below I have removed most of the laser char from the edges. This is not really necessary as the counter and fascia patterns will cover this area up, but I felt it was nice to do as a practise exercise if nothing else.

 

Before the gun deck can be fitted the stern counter frame top edges require sanding so they are flush with the curve of the bulkheads 12 and 13, as indicated in the build manual, but this is done after the stern counter frames have been glued in place and access to sand the top edges is a little bit restrictive.

 

This photo give an indication of the sanding required, therefore I will sand the stern counter frames before they are glued in place so they are flush and flow with bulkheads 12 and 13.

 

Before moving on to the glue stage I just need to test fit the quarterdeck beam spacing patterns. I am also in the process of painting the wooden cradle black.

 

 

I have already applied the Wipe On Poly (WOP) process to the parts in the photo below, as detailed in @DelF build log with credit also to @glbarlow who provide the information for this process

 

I have also applied the first coat of black paint to the cradle parts which will be sanded once dry before a 2nd coat of paint is applied.

Edited November 19, 2021 by glennard2523

[Thukydides]

Why are you applying wop/paint to the stand? Is it to make it more durable?

[Glenn-UK]

16 minutes ago, Thukydides said:

Why are you applying wop/paint to the stand? Is it to make it more durable?

I am just using the cradle to experiment with the WOP / Paint method.  I am hoping to see a much better painted end product. I will post some pictures of the painted cradle on Sunday or Monday.

[James H]

28 minutes ago, glennard2523 said:

I am just using the cradle to experiment with the WOP / Paint method.  I am hoping to see a much better painted end product. I will post some pictures of the painted cradle on Sunday or Monday.

Remember that adding any paint to the cradle at this stage risks it coming off on a painted white hull, whilst you are needing as solely a building aid.

[Glenn-UK]

15 minutes ago, James H said:

Remember that adding any paint to the cradle at this stage risks it coming off on a painted white hull, whilst you are needing as solely a building aid.

This is a spare cradle, I ordered some spare sheets, which gives me the scope to build a practice hull to work on improving my building skills. 

 

The finished painted cradle will have a WOP finish which should lock in the paint.

[James H]

7 minutes ago, glennard2523 said:

This is a spare cradle, I ordered some spare sheets, which gives me the scope to build a practice hull to work on improving my building skills. 

 

The finished painted cradle will have a WOP finish which should lock in the paint.

Not using the acrylic one? 

 

It's a million times better than the MDF 🤣

[Glenn-UK]

46 minutes ago, James H said:

Not using the acrylic one? 

 

It's a million times better than the MDF 🤣

I am just experimenting with painting techniques using a redundant cradle. I will build the açrylic one when nearing the finish line.

[Glenn-UK]

Time for a quick update. I am still working on my test hull and I plan to start work on the production build in the next few days. Although not strictly necessary I think buying the spare sheets and building this test hull has been well worth the time and expense so far.

 

After dry fitting many of the hull items I reached a point where I feel I understand the design much better and how all the parts should fit together. It has also made me appreciate even more what a brilliant job @chris watton is doing with all his designs. During this process I have realised where my V1 started to go wrong as I had not taken the time or care to check if some of the parts were correctly seated during this early part of the build process..

 

Another reason for building a test hull is to overcome the biggest problem I have had with all my previous builds which is is getting the hull properly faired. I lay test planks which appear to make good contact with the faired bulkhead edges but I always end up with "clinker planks" around the bow, even when I have used Chuck's lateral bending methods which proves I have not faired the hull correctly. I plan to fair my test hull and to check some planking runs to see if I can understand why I have this problem and to hopefully produce a hull that is clinker free.

 

The picture below shows my test hull after the gun port patterns have been fitted and glued in place. I opted to add undiluted pva (titebond) glue to the both the longitudinal and vertical gun port patterns slots rather than using a diluted pva solution after the parts were fitted. I used super phatic glue for the bulkheads and deck assembly which was easy to brush in and flowed nicely into all the joint areas.

 

 

One of the concerns I had with the V1 build was the lack of support under the deck in certain places. I have therefore added a few short strips in these areas, as shown in the next couple of photos.

 

 

After the 2nd part of the deck was fitted I was pleased with the additional support the strips provided so this is something I will add to the V2 production build. As part of the testing phase I felt it prudent to check the fitting of the mast dowels. I removed the laser char from the mask holes and hatches on the deck parts before they were fitted. On the production hull I will also double check all the openings for the other parts (bitts, main pump parts, etc)

Edited November 23, 2021 by glennard2523

[Glenn-UK]

I need help and advice please with regards to fairing. I am about 90% through fairing the right-hand side of my test hull and I have a couple of questions and would really appreciate some help and advice.

 

As can be seen in the first photo the laser char has been removed. There is still a bit to remove at the stern end, which is not visible in the photo

 

The first question is regards to fairing the stern area. Should I just remove the laser char and follow the same curve of gun port strips or should I be more aggressive lower down the bulkheads and follow the shape of the lower deck, i.e. in the photo below should I sand the bulkheads flat to follow the deck edge?

 

 

The second question is regarding the fairing around the bow area.

 

When I try a test plank, as shown below it looks like a reasonable fit across the bow bulkheads

 

 

However when I move the plank toward the keel the plank does not lay flat across all the bulkheads, it is raised above the third from left bulkhead. This will result in clinker planks

 

 

The question is therefore do I sand the two leading bulkheads as indicated by the pencil marks in the first photo below, or do I add a thin strip on the pencil mark shown on the second photo below?

 

Sand the pencil marks?

 

Add a filler strip to pencil mark?

 

Please help if at all possible, thanks in advance

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by glennard2523

[BobG]

I'll be interested in the answers you get, Glenn. I always feel uncertain about the fairing process. I do my best checking with a batten as I go along but I never feel like I know when to stop or keep going. Have I taken off enough or too much? Knowing when it is just right remains a mystery to me...

[James H]

It looks like you need to fair those rear bulkheads more, without doubt.

 

Also, I note you faired without adding the inner bulwarks first. Those bulwarks provide some real strength to the frames, prior to sanding the exterior which will inevitably reduce the thickness a little. Those bulwarks also reduce any chance of snapping or flexing of the frames.

 

Was there a reason for your sequence?

 

Also, this image from the instructions shows the fairing of those rear frames:

 

[chris watton]

With this kit, it is very important you follow the instruction stages. For my first prototype, I didn't even think about tackling the sanding of the frames until the inner bulwarks were in place, unifying the structure.

 

 

[glbarlow]

The bow area can and should be faired for the smooth flow of a batten top than bottom stem to the fourth or even fifth bulkhead. There should be no reason to add a strip. Often in my experience it is the 2nd or 3rd bulkheads that have not been faired properly and considered as part of a unit, not individual or 1 to 2 or 2 to 3. It looks like 2 in your photo has insufficient angle faired but it’s hard to see what’s causing. It isn’t faired until a plank runs smooth

Keep the back edge of bulkheads fore of midship and front edge of bulkheads aft of midship as long as you can not to lose the proper design of the hull and both sides equal 

Edited November 23, 2021 by glbarlow

[Glenn-UK]

@chris watton and @James H. I did not order the inner bulwarks sheets as spares hence the reason why they are not fitted on the test hull. Yes the stern does require more fairing as I indicated in my post. I was not sure if I need to follow the flow of the lower deck so asked the question before progressing with fairing the stern area further. I am much more concerned about the clicking effect with the bow area as it stands. Tomorrow I may fit some balsa fillers to see if I can workout how to avoid the clicking of the bow planks.

[Glenn-UK]

1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

The bow area can and should be faired for the smooth flow of a batten top than bottom stem to the fourth or even fifth bulkhead. There should be no reason to add a strip. Often in my experience it is the 2nd or 3rd bulkheads that have not been faired properly and considered as part of a unit, not individual or 1 to 2 or 2 to 3. It looks like 2 in your photo has insufficient angle faired but it’s hard to see what’s causing. It isn’t faired until a plank runs smooth

Keep the back edge of bulkheads fore of midship and front edge of bulkheads aft of midship as long as you can not to lose the proper design of the hull and both sides equal 

@glbarlow when fairing the bow section I used the curve of the top piece as a guide

 

When I fit plank lower down there is a big gap as can be seen below, so maybe the 2nd bulkhead needs a sharper angle.

 

 

 

 

[glbarlow]

Hard for me to see but looks like you need more angle on the first and or second bulkhead and or you’ve removed too much from the third. Either way it has to be a smooth run. 
 

James could advise you better or maybe check photos of BE’s model at that stage. 

[chris watton]

I think you are overthinking way too much for this. All of the hard work has already been done in the development stage. All you need to do it put it together and then, when all parts are added as described in the instructions, simply sand the required bevels so the planks have maximum contact with each bulkhead edge . If you do as Glenn Barlow and watch you do not take away too much of the other edge of the bulkheads, that is all you need to do.

 

The lines for Sphinx are pretty nice, so this shouldn't be an issue. (compared to a bluff bow like Endeavour or similar)

[James H]

12 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

James could advise you better.....

To be honest, I'd struggle to, any more than I did for Flirt, Duchess etc. They are all very similar in execution, especially Duchess which as the same tuck at the stern. Sphinx is no different to fair than most any other similar ship. I just have a plank I lay around at various positions to see how it meets up with the bulkheads. For the stern, curl a plank at the end and again, test the flow around the tuck etc. Out of all the models I've built for VM in the last 2yrs, Sphinx has probably been the very easiest of them to fair, probably even more so than Duchess. 

[mtaylor]

Don't forget that the planks will need tapering at the bow. This should reduce the clinkering also.   I failed to taper far enough aftwards on my build but was able to "push" the next plank such that it filled the clinker.  Once the clinkering started I redid the plank tapers and it came out much better. 

 

And also accurately line off the hull and follow the marks.  This is probably the most important part.  

[Glenn-UK]

I did a quick test this morning and added some balsawood fillers to the bow bulkhead 1 assembly on my test hull. I did not not spend a great deal of time but did enough to get a nice flow of a plank across the bow bulkheads. I have also noted the gun deck support pattern (part 1d) were sanded during the fairing process on the test hull which is not necessary. I have covered later on in this post.

 

I have now decided I have spent enough time messing around with my test hull and now is the time to put my big boy pants on and make a  start with the V2 production build. The first task I undertook was to sort through the various wood sheets and group them in the same order as the first 6 plan sheets, inserting each wood group  in the fold of their associated plans sheet. I also made a list cross referencing the wooden sheets with the plan sheets, which will help me locate parts more easily.

 

Starting with plan sheet 1 I placed the 2 x 4mm MDF and 2 x 3mm MDF sheets on to my workbench.

 

Starting with 3mm MDF sheet 1 all the parts were removed. The cradle and bow jig were assembled using Super Phatic glue.

 

The other parts on the 3mm MDF sheet 1 were placed in to storage so they will be ready for action later on in the build process.

 

I then removed all the parts from the other 3 MDF sheets and dry fitted the various bulkheads to the keel. All other parts, such as the filler patterns, deck supports and stern counter frames were placed in storage draws.

 

As per my previous post I was not happy with how the planks were laying across the bulkhead 1 assembly.  I think the bow curve pattern (part 18) gives a good indication of required fairing angle required for the bow frame patterns. I have also taken onboard comments and advice to keep a small amount of laser char on the back edge of bulkheads and to not overthink the fairing process. When looking at the bow filler patterns 1b and 1c in relation to the bow curve pattern it is clear the back edge is not in line, as can be seen below.

 

 

When looking the prototype photo in Jim's build log the laser char is left on the back edges of bow filler 1b and 1c which are not level with the bow curve pattern, as shown below. I am pleased I have noticed now and means leaving an edge of laser char is the right way to go.

 

When looking at the prototype after the fairing process it would appear the bow curve pattern has been sanded so the back edge of the bow fillers 1b and 1c are now flush. I have also noted that there is no need to fair the edge of gun deck support patterns (1d) which I did fair on the test hull.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by glennard2523

[glbarlow]

On 11/23/2021 at 2:06 PM, glennard2523 said:

curve of the top piece

The curve of the bow is not the same top to bottom.