Capella Posted January 23, 2022 Share #1 Posted January 23, 2022 I'm working on my first wood model ship (Corel Ranger) and I need a pin vise and a few bits. Could someone suggest a decent set for me? Thanks! Quote First build: US Ranger - Corel Second build: HMS Beagle - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPDDET Posted January 23, 2022 Share #2 Posted January 23, 2022 You will often hear most people on this site say, "Buy the best tools you can afford". And I agree. If this is going to be a long time hobby for you, I can recommend a pin vice set by Starrett. Not cheap but very well made and sould last you a lifetime. turangi, Canute, druxey and 1 other 4 Quote Current build: NRG Half Hull Previous build: MS Bluenose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted January 23, 2022 Share #3 Posted January 23, 2022 I really like this one. The 3 jaw chuck is really useful for a wide range of sizes without changing collets like a lot of traditional pin vise'.. 36 Pieces Vise Hand Drill for Jewelry Making Set If you get something like this, be aware those burrs at the top are brittle and break easily, but it is easy to get replacements. Ryland Craze, Dave_E, Canute and 3 others 6 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted January 23, 2022 Share #4 Posted January 23, 2022 There is a lengthy series of posts under the name Pin Vice Help Needed. You can find it with the search function above. I bought a 4 pin vice set made by Moody in Providence, RI. Good quality. Canute, Bob Cleek, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turangi Posted January 23, 2022 Share #5 Posted January 23, 2022 I had a few cheap ones then bought a couple of Starretts, a great upgrade! No sets with bits but they can be purchased separately. mtaylor, Canute and AlleyCat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted January 23, 2022 Share #6 Posted January 23, 2022 I don't see where the Starretts come with different size collets . Do you have to buy at least four of them to get the .04 to .187 pin range? I'm sure they are well made, but doesn't ease of use count for something? I used to have two of the double ended ones so I could have four different bits available without changing bits. I threw them away after I acquired this: It will hold anything from a cat hair up to 1/8 ".. The 1/8 is really convenient for holding a lot of different Dremel type accessories & milling tools if the need arises. Since I haven't had the opportunity to use some of the " higher quality " suggestions, I don't know how this compares in that regard, but it has some kind of baked or anodized finish that appears to be very well done. mtaylor, AlleyCat, Canute and 1 other 3 1 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Tuttle Posted January 23, 2022 Share #7 Posted January 23, 2022 I am not familiar with that particular pin vise but it does look like a nice one. In recent years the China versions have been very cheaply made. Check out Ebay for a couple of Starretts and you will never be disappointed. Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Bill Current Build: Kate Cory Scratch Built Previous Builds: Benjamin W. Latham Scratch Built H A Parks Skipjack Scratch Built Charles W. Morgan Model Shipways Kit Rattlesnake Model Shipways Kit Diligence Model Shipways Kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted January 23, 2022 Share #8 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Is there some reason why you feel I am not competent to judge the quality of this tool I am holding in my hand? I need a good reason to spend $100 for a tool that is not as versatile or any better made than a $20 tool. I judge a tool by it's ability to do the work I want to do, and a quality that means I don't expect to have to replace it any time soon. I would have been real disappointed if I had spent $100 on a set of Starretts and subsequently found this tool for $20. Edited January 23, 2022 by Gregory Capella, Roger Pellett, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capella Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share #9 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Gregory said: I really like this one. The 3 jaw chuck is really useful for a wide range of sizes without changing collets like a lot of traditional pin vise'.. 36 Pieces Vise Hand Drill for Jewelry Making Set If you get something like this, be aware those burrs at the top are brittle and break easily, but it is easy to get replacements. Thanks. I looked at that one and some others. I finally landed on this set from CML. $15. To those of you who have suggested getting something from Starrett: As I noted in my original post, I am working on my first ship, so I may or may not decide to continue the hobby. Do you really think it prudent for me to spend $100 - easily more - on something that I don't know if I will ever use again?? Edited January 23, 2022 by Capella rudybob, Canute, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote First build: US Ranger - Corel Second build: HMS Beagle - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbyr Posted January 23, 2022 Share #10 Posted January 23, 2022 Capella Starrett or Moody, the best there is Jim mtaylor, Roger Pellett, Bob Cleek and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dziadeczek Posted January 23, 2022 Share #11 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) I too am looking for a new pin vise to replace my old "General" brand vise, which recently developed a round hole in the center of this 'cross' (see red arrow) and is unusable for the smallest drill bits. I resorted to attaching a separate pin holder to it, but this is only a temporary measure... Greg, can you tell me, if your new vise can firmly hold a drill bit # 80? I don't mind paying more for Starrett, but 90 (!) dollars is a bit stretch for my pocket... 😬 Also, I am looking for a vise that has these two double ended collets, with two different openings on their BOTH sides - for convenience's sake. As far as I know, Starrett doesn't make such a vise; you have to buy two of their separate vises to accommodate drill bits from # 80 up to 3 mm thick. 120 bucks later... Edited January 23, 2022 by Dziadeczek mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted January 23, 2022 Share #12 Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) I'm a little challenged when it comes to small diameters, in that I just have to eye ball it after .5 mm or so. I see that #80 should be .0135. This little 3 jaw chuck closes essentially to .000, so the #80 shouldn't be a problem.. Here is some copper wire that is about .01, and it's not going anywhere unless it comes out smaller than it went in. I think you would be surprised at the quality of these. Chances are a lot of different 'Brands' are coming from the same factory, the one I have doesn't seem to be available at Amazon right now, but any similar one should do as well. PS Just noticed the specs say this is made of aluminum, so I guess long term durability could be an issue. I don't see any noticeable wear after over a year, but I mostly use the 1/8 shank micro bits.. Edited January 23, 2022 by Gregory Capella, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted January 23, 2022 Share #13 Posted January 23, 2022 I have a couple of the "no name" types I bought a couple of decades ago. Haven't worn them out yet. But then, for drilling I'm more likely to use the mill or just use small WeCheer electric (Model WE=242) which pretty much does what I want. As a disclaimer.. I do have a pile of wonderdul "must have" tools that I've taken out of the box and looked at or even used once. So there is that to consider... how often will you use it? rudybob, Gregory, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modeller_masa Posted January 23, 2022 Share #14 Posted January 23, 2022 The drill bits for PCB circuit board are the best accurate drills you can get, but its length is short. Even cheapest $1.00 10 bits set is fine. You can find wide range from 0.10, 0.15, 0.20mm to 2.80, 2.90, 3.00mm. I have all 10 of them. Buy the best collet when you need better one. Never buy cheap collet. I heard that a collet from Swiss is the best for jewelry, but it depends on nation and area. Dave_E, Canute, AlleyCat and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver Posted January 23, 2022 Share #15 Posted January 23, 2022 I purchased my Pin Vise from Lee Valley tools. It cost $25.00 Canadian and comes with an assortment of Swiss made drill bits. I have used it regularly with no issues. Check out there web site. AlleyCat, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver Posted January 23, 2022 Share #16 Posted January 23, 2022 Just now, Diver said: I purchased my Pin Vise from Lee Valley tools. It cost $25.00 Canadian and comes with an assortment of Swiss made drill bits. I have used it regularly with no issues. Check out there web site. By the way, It is US made Ryland Craze, AlleyCat, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dziadeczek Posted January 23, 2022 Share #17 Posted January 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Gregory said: Just noticed the specs say this is made of aluminum, so I guess long term durability could be an issue. I don't see any noticeable wear after over a year, but I mostly use the 1/8 shank micro bits.. Greg, It doesn't matter if the handle is made of aluminum or some kind of plastic, or similar. What matters is the material used for those jaws. It should be hardened steel, so it doesn't wear off quickly. I just had a thought. What if I use a 3 jaw chuck from Dremel (it looks like it does have hardened steel jaws - I bought them for my self-made serving machine, to keep my ropes tightly apart while serving). It is easily obtainable from most hardware stores for little money. I just need to fashion a shaft for it from a piece of a brass rod . Drill the rod on one end to accommodate the length of a drill bit placed inside and cut a proper thread for the shaft to be able to screw on the Dremel chuck. I checked it, by the way, - their chuck tightly holds # 80 drill bit! And everything else up to 3 mm thick. If I want it, I can attach on the oposite end of this rod some sort of a spinning head, wooden ball or similar, to hold it comfortably in the palm of my hand. By the way, the thread size for Dremel shaft is proprietary, but the size of a cutter M7 x 0.75 will work just as well. Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted January 23, 2022 Share #18 Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dziadeczek said: What if I use a 3 jaw chuck from Dremel (it looks like it does have hardened steel jaws That should work.. Just a matter of getting it threaded.. The chuck on this pin vise is about the same size.. I agree the jaws should be steel.. Just as a test I was able to ding the jaws on mine with a diamond tip scribe, but it didn't seem to penetrate as much as I would expect for aluminum.. These on amazon say they are carbon steel.. Good deal at 2 for $10.49 I would like to acknowledge at this point, that a possible downside to the chuck, is that it would be a little more crowding in tight spaces than a traditional pin vise. Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted January 24, 2022 Share #19 Posted January 24, 2022 (edited) On 1/23/2022 at 7:35 AM, Gregory said: I need a good reason to spend $100 for a tool that is not as versatile or any better made than a $20 tool. I judge a tool by it's ability to do the work I want to do, and a quality that means I don't expect to have to replace it any time soon. I would have been real disappointed if I had spent $100 on a set of Starretts and subsequently found this tool for $20. You're right because you've correctly determined a $20 pin vise has the ability to do the work you want it to do. I'd expect this is true of most ship modelers and certainly of those starting out. This fact is a good example of why the maxim that one should always buy the best tool they can afford has to be tempered by common sense. As far as I can see, what hasn't been mentioned in this thread is what difference there is between the low-priced pin vises and the high-priced ones. The determining factor is the level of accuracy to which each is capable. For most ship modeling tasks, however, we aren't talking about the sort of accuracy a fine watchmaker or scientific instrument maker requires, but rather the sort of accuracy a wooden ship modeler requires. A pin vise's accuracy comes from the pin vise's ability to hold a bit (or any other cylindrical piece) of a given diameter in perfect alignment with the vise shaft itself. The less expensive, and less accurate pin vises are just less reliable in their ability to grasp and hold a bit shaft in perfect alignment with the vise body. If a pin vise is twisted by hand, within the tolerance limits of a wooden ship model, the "runout," as machinists call it, i.e. the amount of "out of true" the bit point will rotate at, is not particularly problematic. On the other hand, if a pin vise is mounted in a drill press, the "whip" from the runout can often cause a bit to break. What the buyer gets for their $100 when buying a top-end professional grade pin vise like a Starrett or Moody is the certainty that the costly close-tolerance machining in the expensive pin vise ensures negligible runout at the tip of the drill bit and consequently drills holes to very high tolerances. Another bit of important information not mentioned is that a four-jaw (or more) collet holds a bit with much more accuracy than does a three- or four-jaw chuck. Collets are made to hold specifically sized cylindrical shapes. While there's some range of "play" in inexpensive collets, machinists' collects are made to fit specific diameters so that when the collet holder cap is tightened down the collet evenly grasps the cylinder all around its circumference, ensuring secure holding with negligible runout. Chucks only hold cylinders by applying pressure at points equal to their number of jaws and are consequently more prone to runout. Here again, precision machining in a chuck's manufacture determines the price of a given chuck at a given accuracy tolerance level. Inexpensive chucks simply do not ensure accuracy to tight tolerances. While those who own them are probably already aware, it might be noted that the style of pin vise made by General and, I believe others, and pictured in posts #9 and #11 above actually contains two double-ended differently-sized collets. The collet holder cap nut permits the double-ended collet it holds to be removed and end-for-ended. The second double-ended collet is stored in the shaft of the pin vise, which unscrews to permit access to it. I mention this because I owned one of these General-style pin vises for decades without realizing there was another double ended collet stored in the shaft of the vise handle! Edited January 25, 2022 by Bob Cleek Gregory, Canute, Capella and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turangi Posted January 29, 2022 Share #20 Posted January 29, 2022 (edited) Certainly not to be argumentative but I have three low cost pin vises that were fine for hand drilling when the jaws actually held. But, if I mounted them in a drill to make multiple holes they wobbled like a hula dancer. I purchased two Staretts that cover 0-1/8 inch and they run true as a judge. I like the rubber coated ones so they don't roll off my bench and certainly not anywhere near $120. They are reasonably priced and well worth the price! An example: https://www.amazon.com/Starrett-166C-Insulated-Octagonal-Handle/dp/B00375DEPI/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2AZX2RQPW3PSQ&keywords=starrett+pin+vise+166a&qid=1643428419&sprefix=starrett+pin+vise+166a%2Caps%2C74&sr=8-3 Edited January 29, 2022 by turangi Bob Cleek and Canute 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted January 29, 2022 Share #21 Posted January 29, 2022 10 hours ago, turangi said: But, if I mounted them in a drill to make multiple holes they wobbled like a hula dancer. As I would expect them to do. But, to continue to be argumentative, I have a genuine Dremel keyless chuck 0-1/8 that runs true as a judge for $12. The Knock offs are 2 for $12 .. I have no doubt that the Staretts are very fine tools, but I am not inclined to by a Rolex just because I need to know the time..😀 toms10, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turangi Posted February 4, 2022 Share #22 Posted February 4, 2022 (edited) Unfortunately my Dremel chuck was unusable and noticeably off center, luck of the draw apparently. It seems most of the products mentioned here are actually available on Amazon with free shipping and return if you are a Prime member. Try whichever you want and return it if not suitable. As far as the Rolex comparison, $12 for Dremel and approximately $24 for a Starrett, not quite a $5,000 step-up from a $50 Timex and it was well worth it to me in terms of frustration decrease. Good tools are a blessing and make the hobby much more enjoyable to me. Edited February 4, 2022 by turangi Canute, allanyed, modeller_masa and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted February 4, 2022 Share #23 Posted February 4, 2022 Turangi Your post has me smiling regarding your comments on both the tools and the watches. Amazon is a savior for those of us making bad choices, be it a tool or a watch. To paraphrase Jimmy Durante, Thank you Mr. Bezos wherever you are!!! Allan Roger Pellett, Gregory, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted February 4, 2022 Share #24 Posted February 4, 2022 On 1/29/2022 at 6:56 AM, Gregory said: I am not inclined to buy a Rolex just because I need to know the time..😀 Ah, but if you needed to know the time in order to navigate, I bet you would be! mtaylor, Gregory and Canute 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canute Posted February 5, 2022 Share #25 Posted February 5, 2022 Well, you could use an Omega, like I did when I flew. 😁 Stephen schultz, mtaylor and Gregory 3 Quote Ken Started: MS Bounty Longboat, On Hold: Heinkel USS Choctaw paper Down the road: Shipyard HMC Alert 1/96 paper, Mamoli Constitution Cross, MS USN Picket Boat #1 Scratchbuild: Echo Cross Section Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlleyCat Posted March 28, 2022 Share #26 Posted March 28, 2022 On 1/23/2022 at 9:49 AM, Gregory said: I don't see where the Starretts come with different size collets . Do you have to buy at least four of them to get the .04 to .187 pin range? I'm sure they are well made, but doesn't ease of use count for something? I used to have two of the double ended ones so I could have four different bits available without changing bits. I threw them away after I acquired this: It will hold anything from a cat hair up to 1/8 ".. The 1/8 is really convenient for holding a lot of different Dremel type accessories & milling tools if the need arises. Since I haven't had the opportunity to use some of the " higher quality " suggestions, I don't know how this compares in that regard, but it has some kind of baked or anodized finish that appears to be very well done. "it will hold anything from a cat hair up to 1/8 " Well , you've caught my interest ! 😉 can you tell me the brand name of this miracle tool , please 🙂 Canute, mtaylor and Dave_E 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted March 28, 2022 Share #27 Posted March 28, 2022 The makers of the one I bought call themselves AutoToolHome Amazon has a large number of vendors for this style of pin vise.. Dave_E, mtaylor and Canute 3 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted March 28, 2022 Share #28 Posted March 28, 2022 AlleyCat, The better quality pin vices, Starrett and Moody, usually are sold in sets. My Moody pin vices are a set of four; each covers a different range of sizes. At the risk of setting off a storm; I don’t understand the angst that this topic has created. The last time that I checked a set of four Moody US made pin vices delivered cost less than $70. That would seem inexpensive compared with the cost of popular POB kits. If you are comparing lathes, milling machines, bandsaws, etc. that’s a whole different matter. Roger mtaylor, Dave_E, AlleyCat and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Posted March 28, 2022 Share #29 Posted March 28, 2022 Alleycat asked me where I got mine.. I'm sure the better quality pin vises are better quality. but I'm not sure how that makes their use for ship modeling of any particular advantage. I don't find four different tools when one will work, to be all that convenient.. Canute, mtaylor, Dave_E and 1 other 4 Quote “Indecision may or may not be my problem.” ― Jimmy Buffett Current builds: Rattlesnake On Hold: HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett ) In the Gallery: Yacht Mary, Gretel, French Cannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glbarlow Posted March 28, 2022 Share #30 Posted March 28, 2022 (edited) There are a full range of prices on Amazon. Frankly I'm not sure what justifies a high priced one. They are a basic tool, the ones I've had for years are still fine. They just have to tightly hold a bit. It is worth it to get multiple sized ones to accommodate multiple sized bits - I have four sizes, they're all I need. The larger ones, no matter how small a bit they hold, get in the way of small tight areas. I have these, or a version of them Amazon Pin Vise Set they have yet to fail me. I've never had nor understand the need to put a hand drilling device into a mechanical one. It's worth noting I've never seen an expensive tool I didn't like and in quite often buy (like Veritas mini-chisels for example), but in this case... Edited March 28, 2022 by glbarlow mtaylor, Dave_E and Canute 3 Quote Regards, Glenn Current Build: Don't know yet. Completed Builds: HMS Winchelsea HM Flirt (paused) HM Cutter Cheerful, Lady Nelson, Amati HMS Vanguard, HMS Pegasus, Fair American, HM Granado, HM Pickle, AVS, Pride of Baltimore, Bluenose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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