RH-J Posted September 16, 2022 Share #1 Posted September 16, 2022 Since I was in short pants, I have always enjoyed making things. When I retired some 14 years ago, I embarked upon an ambitious model railway. Health issues brought that project to a screeching halt at the beginning of this year so a radical rethink was required. The first book I ever read, when I was 7 or 8, was Dana's 'Two Years before the Mast' and my love of boats and the sea was born. Given my enjoyment in sailing (when I was younger!) and my interest in Nelson's Navy, it seemed logical to build model sailing ships. Practicality dictated I bought a beginner's kit to learn how to build these fascinating yet complicated machines so I bought OcCre's Polaris kit with every intention of building it as per the instructions. However my pedantic nature intervened - there were simply too many discrepancies between the kit and how things were done in the real world of tall ships. Unfortunately this has meant my simple beginner's model has morphed into something well outside my comfort zone and is now HM Schooner Cockle: a vessel loosely based upon the 'fish' class of dispatch boat built for the British Navy between 1805 and 1807. Line drawings of the hull exist but I can find nothing that shows the deck fixtures and fittings or any details of the standing and running rigging. All I do know is they were gaff rigged schooners. I have many, many questions but one of the most fundamental ones is, did only the running rigging go to belaying pins with the standing rigging going to the chain plates and Samson posts? Any advice would be most welcome. ccoyle, Bill Morrison, mtaylor and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_E Posted September 16, 2022 Share #2 Posted September 16, 2022 Welcome RH! 👍😀 mtaylor, Keith Black, Ryland Craze and 1 other 4 Quote Dave Current builds: Rattlesnake Completed builds: Lady Nelson On the shelf: NRG Half Hull Project, Various metal, plastic and paper models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Black Posted September 16, 2022 Share #3 Posted September 16, 2022 RH, welcome to MSW. As far as I know standing lines never terminated at belaying pins. Glad to have you aboard. mtaylor, allanyed, Dave_E and 2 others 5 Quote Current Builds: Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted September 16, 2022 Share #4 Posted September 16, 2022 2 hours ago, RH-J said: there were simply too many discrepancies between the kit and how things were done in the real world of tall ships. First, WELCOME ABOARD. No matter kit or scratch build based on other than as-built contemporary plans, research is your friend. Building a small library as you move along, such as a good rigging book like Lees' Masting and Rigging as well as others is a good investment. There is no need to go crazy, but acquire books as you find a need. In the meantime, never hesitate to ask questions here in the appropriate forums and/or start a build log. . Allan Dave_E, Edwardkenway, Ryland Craze and 3 others 6 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druxey Posted September 16, 2022 Share #5 Posted September 16, 2022 Welcome aboard, RH. There are plans of the Fish class in the Royal Museums Greenwich collection: https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-85908 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-85907 https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-85909 Keith Black, Ryland Craze, Dave_E and 4 others 7 Quote Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series http://trafalgar.tv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Morrison Posted September 16, 2022 Share #6 Posted September 16, 2022 Welcome aboard. I believe that we have each shared similar experiences with models. Good luck! Bill Keith Black, Ryland Craze, Dave_E and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted September 16, 2022 Share #7 Posted September 16, 2022 Welcome to MSW, RH-J. Ryland Craze, Dave_E, Edwardkenway and 1 other 4 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryland Craze Posted September 16, 2022 Share #8 Posted September 16, 2022 Hi RH and welcome to Model Ship World. It sounds like you have a love for the old sailing ships and their history. The research can be an important part of building a good scale model. We are glad to have you as a member if this forum. Dave_E, mtaylor, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Ryland Member - Hampton Roads Ship Model Society - Ship Model Society of New Jersey - Nautical Research Guild Current Build - Armed Virginia Sloop, 18th Century Longboat Completed Build - Medway Longboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Lad Posted September 16, 2022 Share #9 Posted September 16, 2022 Hello RH, and a warm welcome to the forum from down in OZ. John Keith Black, Ryland Craze, Edwardkenway and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flutlo6180 Posted September 17, 2022 Share #10 Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) Hi RH. Welcome aboard! Edited September 17, 2022 by flutlo6180 typo Keith Black, mtaylor, Dave_E and 2 others 5 Quote Ken Current Build HM Alert - 1777 - Vanguard Next Build Fair American - Model Shipways Completed Builds 18TH Century Merchantman Half Hull Planking Kit - NRG San Juan Felucca - OcCre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH-J Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share #11 Posted September 17, 2022 Many thanks, one and all. As you all point out, research is the key. That task is made more difficult because, unlike modelling a 1920's railway, the camera had yet to be invented 😪! But I am sure patience will be rewarded and I have already learned a lot from you guys. Ryland Craze, mtaylor, Keith Black and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardkenway Posted September 17, 2022 Share #12 Posted September 17, 2022 RH, welcome to MSW Keith Black, Ryland Craze, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Current builds; Henry Ramey Upcher 1:25 Providence whaleboat- 1:25 HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 Completed: HM Cutter Sherbourne- 1:64- finished Triton cross section scratch- 1:60 - finished Non ship: SBD-3 Dauntless 1:48 Hasegawa -FINISHED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardeeHarHar Posted September 17, 2022 Share #13 Posted September 17, 2022 Greetings RH, and welcome to MSW! Please post some pictures of your build! =) Dave_E, Ryland Craze, Keith Black and 2 others 5 Quote Brian Current Builds: HMBV Granado 1/64 Caldercraft; HMS Sphinx 1775 by HardeeHarHar - Vanguard Models 1:64-V2 Completed Build: HMS Bounty's Jolly Boat 1/25 Artesania Latina; Master Korabel - 1:36 Yefin Nikonov's Secret Vessel On the Shelf: HMBV Granado 1/48 CAF Model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted September 17, 2022 Share #14 Posted September 17, 2022 Ryland Craze, Dave_E, Keith Black and 2 others 5 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch To do : Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petervisser Posted September 17, 2022 Share #15 Posted September 17, 2022 Hi RH and welcome to the site. Rigging a model ship/boat can be the most challenging aspect for a newly minted model builder. A book I can highly recommend for your gaff rigged schooner is Lennarth Petersson's "Rigging Period Fore and Aft Craft". This book gives an easy to learn, step by step guide in the art of rigging. It's available on Abe Books for less than US$20! Check out their website. Happy modelling! Peter Edwardkenway, mtaylor, Ryland Craze and 1 other 4 Quote Build Log: Billing - Cutty Sark In The Gallery: HMS Unicorn, HMAV Bounty, L'Etoile, Marie Jeanne, Lilla Dan, Zeeschouw "Irene" A Toast: To a wind that blows, A ship that goes, And the lass that loved a sailor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH-J Posted September 18, 2022 Author Share #16 Posted September 18, 2022 5 hours ago, petervisser said: Hi RH and welcome to the site. Rigging a model ship/boat can be the most challenging aspect for a newly minted model builder. A book I can highly recommend for your gaff rigged schooner is Lennarth Petersson's "Rigging Period Fore and Aft Craft". This book gives an easy to learn, step by step guide in the art of rigging. It's available on Abe Books for less than US$20! Check out their website. Happy modelling! Peter Many thanks for the heads up, Peter. I will, most certainly, look for the book. I do have to confess, the rigging was the one part of building model ships that scared the pants off me and still does! The rest is just a question of transferring modelling skills from one interest to another plus loads of research! @ Brian. I will, most certainly, post photos of my build as soon as I can but not here; probably better on my build log. 😉 Edwardkenway, Keith Black, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knocklouder Posted September 29, 2022 Share #17 Posted September 29, 2022 mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote Start so you can Finish !! Finished: The Santa Maria -Amati 1:65, La Pinta- Amati 1:65, La Nina -Amati 1:65 , Hannah Ship in a Bottle -1:300 The Sea of Galilee Boat-Scott Miller-1:20 ,The Mayflower Amati 1:60 non Ship Build: 1972 Ford Sport Custom Truck Current Build: Viking Ship Drakkar -Amati-1:50 On Hold: HMS Pegasus: Amati Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wawona59 Posted September 30, 2022 Share #18 Posted September 30, 2022 Welcome to Model Ship World RH. In response to your question: I have many, many questions but one of the most fundamental ones is, did only the running rigging go to belaying pins with the standing rigging going to the chain plates and Samson posts? Any advice would be most welcome. In my limited experience, I've only seen running rigging go to the belaying pins. On this and many other questions; research is your friend. Welcome aboard! Wawona59 mtaylor and Keith Black 2 Quote Wawona 59 John Next Project:: Drakkar "Oseberg" - Pavel Nikitin Wish list for "Seattle Connection" builds: 1/96 Lumber Schooner Wawona, 1/96 Down Easter St. Paul, 1/32 Hydroplane Slo-Mo-Shun IV Completed Builds: Midwest - Chesapeake Bay Flattie (highly modified); Revell - 1/96 Constitution, 1/96 Thermopylae, 1/96 Cutty Sark, 1/570 Titanic; Dragon - 1/700 USS Arizona; Model Shipways - NY Pilot Boat Phantom, Aurora - Whaling Ship Wanderer, Maquette - Boeing 307 Stratoliner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted September 30, 2022 Share #19 Posted September 30, 2022 Because running rigging "runs," and moves, the "bitter end" always has to be tied off to something. It's belayed to belaying pins, generally, during the period after which belaying pins came into use, but also sometimes to cleats and cavels and occasionally posts. Standing rigging is generally fastened permanently, shrouds at their lower ends to chain plates or sometimes pad eyes on deck and to bowsprit irons. There really aren't hard and fast rules, though. There are many different rigging arrangements which can vary from ship to ship, and even vary on the same ship from time to time in the ship's life. Standing rigging did not go to Samson posts, actually. Samson posts are for towing the ship or making an anchor cable fast when the anchor is set, or to belay mooring lines when alongside a wharf or quay. Here again, things can vary from ship to ship and time to time. You really can't say for sure what general rigging practices were without specifying the type of vessel, it's nationality, and the time in history that's applicable. Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMT Posted September 30, 2022 Share #20 Posted September 30, 2022 A very late starter to this craft, I am looking forward to the learning experience. I just finished my first ship. Lowell Grand Banks dory. It was a good experience for me, and I look forward to my next building the Norwegian Sailing Pram. BMT Keith Black and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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