Kits Available of HMS Victory, looking for suggestions from builders

[Steven Gottlob]

New Member Steve Gottlob here! Ive been leaning toward purchase of a Caldercraft model kit 1/74 scale of the HMS Victory!! Any concerns, suggestions etc., for first time tall ship kit builder!

[scrubbyj427]

Hi Steve and welcome to MSW! You’re about to dig into a can of worms with this one, you may want to post this topic over here:

https://modelshipworld.com/forum/24-wood-ship-model-kits/
or just search it out as it’s been covered extensively. I personally haven’t built victory but there are many fine examples here. If I were ever going to build a victory kit I’d look at the Caldercraft one, but the new Amati release looks to be promising as well in 1:64.

[starlight]

Hi Steven,

 

The last part of your post set off an alarm bell in my head. I am also a first time model builder. I would simply ask you one question: are you prepared to take on a truly monumental project, one that may take you several years?

 

Forgive me if I sound like I am disrespecting your skills or motivation. It is just that when I was getting into this hobby, I too was enamoured with the idea of building a ship of the line, and quickly realized from browsing the many amazing builds here that I was way in over my head. I decided to cut my teeth on a simple sloop of war first, and it has already taken me over 2 years (and I still have not completed the hull).

 

I'm sure others will be quick to chime in, but to start, if you have not already seen it I would recommend this excellent thread by @ccoyle:

 

 

Whatever you decide, I wish you luck.

 

-starlight

 

[scrubbyj427]

9 minutes ago, starlight said:

Hi Steven,

 

The last part of your post set off an alarm bell in my head. I am also a first time model builder. I would simply ask you one question: are you prepared to take on a truly monumental project, one that may take you several years?

 

Forgive me if I sound like I am disrespecting your skills or motivation. It is just that when I was getting into this hobby, I too was enamoured with the idea of building a ship of the line, and quickly realized from browsing the many amazing builds here that I was way in over my head. I decided to cut my teeth on a simple sloop of war first, and it has already taken me over 2 years (and I still have not completed the hull).

 

I'm sure others will be quick to chime in, but to start, if you have not already seen it I would recommend this excellent thread by @ccoyle:

 

 

Whatever you decide, I wish you luck.

 

-starlight

 

starlight,
Don’t be too intimidated by the larger ships it’s completely realistic to complete one as your first., especially with the resources on MSW. I tackled Mantuas San Felipe as my very first wood ship model, that was 20 years ago and I still display it proudly, even though it’s riddled with errors and I’ve since improved over time, but the model kept me interested and motivated to keep going. But it does boil down to what one is comfortable with and are they willing to commit to a project of that size. 

[Jaager]

Do yourself a favor and read this ASAP:        https://modelshipworld.com/topic/13703-for-beginners-a-cautionary-tale/

 

In the spirit of a scientific thought experiment, I propose the following:

 

It is true that more than a few have begun with a Victory kit (or SotS or Constitution) and managed a successful completion.  But I seriously doubt that any one of them would have felt the need to ask the question that you did.   The self assured arrogance or whatever personality traits that are required to carry them past the initial intimidating barrier and all the many subsequent ones on to a finish are the mental tools that would also keep them from even considering asking anyone else about the wisdom of their choice.

 

Starting with a monster and finishing it is a infrequent occurrence.   For these most popular of ship model kit subjects, the number that have been barely or even never been started vastly,vastly out number the number taken to completion. 

 

If you have no background in miniature wood working,  if plastic kits are your only experience, then you would do well to spend time and imagination reading a lot of kit build logs.   Plastic is a separate skill set for skills beyond research and painting.

 

This is a new world.  It is broad enough to engage several lifetimes, but not impossibly open ended.  Nothing else will expose you to the technology - the entire technology - of the time period of a chosen subject.  

 

 

[mtaylor]

I moved this to the proper forum area.    Starlight and others have given sound advice.   Having been there and done that when I bought my first model... I find this advice excellent.

[Bill Morrison]

On 9/22/2022 at 11:41 PM, scrubbyj427 said:

starlight,
Don’t be too intimidated by the larger ships it’s completely realistic to complete one as your first., especially with the resources on MSW. I tackled Mantuas San Felipe as my very first wood ship model, that was 20 years ago and I still display it proudly, even though it’s riddled with errors and I’ve since improved over time, but the model kept me interested and motivated to keep going. But it does boil down to what one is comfortable with and are they willing to commit to a project of that size. 

Years ago, a build model of HMS Victory was presented in a ship modeling magazine by a first-time builder This builder was a woman in her early 70s who visited HMS Victory and decided to do a wooden model of her. The model was spectacular!  Additionally, Wolfram zu Mondfeld9author of Historic Ship Modeling) advises to pick a ship that interests you instead of getting smaller ships for which you have no interest.

 

The point is that you decide. There is lots of help here.

 

Bill

[Bob Cleek]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:48 PM, Jaager said:

Do yourself a favor and read this ASAP:        https://modelshipworld.com/topic/13703-for-beginners-a-cautionary-tale/

 

In the spirit of a scientific thought experiment, I propose the following:

 

It is true that more than a few have begun with a Victory kit (or SotS or Constitution) and managed a successful completion.  But I seriously doubt that any one of them would have felt the need to ask the question that you did.   The self assured arrogance or whatever personality traits that are required to carry them past the initial intimidating barrier and all the many subsequent ones on to a finish are the mental tools that would also keep them from even considering asking anyone else about the wisdom of their choice.

 

Starting with a monster and finishing it is a infrequent occurrence.   For these most popular of ship model kit subjects, the number that have been barely or even never been started vastly,vastly out number the number taken to completion. 

 

If you have no background in miniature wood working,  if plastic kits are your only experience, then you would do well to spend time and imagination reading a lot of kit build logs.   Plastic is a separate skill set for skills beyond research and painting.

 

This is a new world.  It is broad enough to engage several lifetimes, but not impossibly open ended.  Nothing else will expose you to the technology - the entire technology - of the time period of a chosen subject.  

 

 

Please read Jaager's above post again and definitely read the link listed at the beginning. This is an internet forum and free advice on the internet often costs much more in the end than one paid for it. The reader must always separate the fly specks from the pepper. Too quickly believing what you want to hear is an ever-present danger.

 

The author of the above post is one of the most experienced and accomplished modelers on this forum. Seven members (as of this post) have endorsed his advice to you. One of those who gave Jaager's post a "thumbs up" is Chris Watton, owner of Vanguard Models and world-renowned model ship kit designer. I believe he is currently working on designing a kit model of HMS Indefatigable, a 64-gun third rate ship-of-the-line designed in 1761, which, in modeling terms, poses most of the challenges posed by any fully-rigged ship of the same period as HMS Victory. Notwithstanding the well-intentioned encouragement of some responses to your post, what does Chris Watton's endorsement of Jaager's post tell you?

 

Choose wisely, Grasshopper. Master walking before you try to run. 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Bob Cleek

[ccoyle]

Hi, Steven. I'm the guy who wrote the "Cautionary Tale" post. I have seen beginners take on very difficult models as first projects and complete them, but one of the things that I pointed out in my article is that such accomplishments are quite rare. Based on my many years of moderating this forum, I don't think that it's a stretch to say that about 90% of beginners who attempt large men-of-war like Victory eventually give up on the attempt. To back up my assertion, I invite you to check out this link, which lists all of the build logs for HMS Victory on our site that include the words "first build" in their titles. As you will see, the one thing that all of those build logs have in common is that not a single one of them is tagged as being finished, even if a few of them did reach advanced stages of construction. So, the cautionary is exactly that -- a cautionary tale. No one is saying that you can't attempt Victory on the first go at this hobby, but if you were to complete it, it would be an extraordinary feat.

 

Kind regards,

[Kevin]

the Caldercraft 1/72 Victory was my first ever tall ship, and at the time about the 3rd build under my belt, on and off the table she did take me 7 years, i fully inderstand now why so many are never completed

Edited September 26, 2022 by Kevin

[Bill Morrison]

I remember back in the late 1980s that Model Expo ran a special to get people to build wooden ship models. Their deal was that they would buy back completed models of their Phantom kit if the builder bought from them.  Mine is still sitting in the box as it is a boring kit for me. But, I have completed and sold models of HMS Bellona (Corel), USS Constitution (Blue Jacket), Half Moon (Blue Jacket), among others.  It is up to you.

 

Bill Morrison

[Kevin]

4 hours ago, Bill Morrison said:

I remember back in the late 1980s that Model Expo ran a special to get people to build wooden ship models. Their deal was that they would buy back completed models of their Phantom kit if the builder bought from them.  Mine is still sitting in the box as it is a boring kit for me. But, I have completed and sold models of HMS Bellona (Corel), USS Constitution (Blue Jacket), Half Moon (Blue Jacket), among others.  It is up to you.

 

Bill Morrison

i dont think they would honeor that deal now

[clearway]

started my victory in 2013 and keep going back to her after breaks of a couple of years, i have loads of builds done but 1st rate men o war are not for the faint hearted or beginners really (and mine is the less complicated billings kit)!

 

Keith

 

[Jaager]

4 hours ago, Bill Morrison said:

completed models of their Phantom kit if the builder bought from them.  Mine is still sitting in the box as it is a boring kit for me

Phantom may be worth a reevaluation for what it is, instead of what it is not.

 

Phantom has an elegant hull.  The curves are appealing.  The vessel itself is spare but the overall presentation has a beauty to it.  

I remember it as coming as a carved hull in both 1/4" and 1/8" scale.   If it has a copper bottom,  using actual metal at either scale would probably ruin the elegance.  Tissue paper or just paint  or  - a planking over the solid using a veneer of an appropriate species of wood?

A small vessel at 1/8th scale is more an expression of a skill at miniature scale. A lot of the materials that we use at larger scales begin to lose translation ability at 1/8th and artful faking begins to be needed. 

[Bill Morrison]

My point is that simpler is not necessarily better.  I never completed the schooner because it is boring to me. However, I did complete several ships-of-the-line, galleons, and frigates.

 

Bill

[Bob Cleek]

12 minutes ago, Bill Morrison said:

My point is that simpler is not necessarily better.  I never completed the schooner because it is boring to me. However, I did complete several ships-of-the-line, galleons, and frigates.

 

Bill

Different ships, different long splices, I guess. Me, when I see the word Victory, I just yawn and keep on scrolling. I'd rather see a good model of a working boat than a naval vessel any day. I guess I'm just a pirate at heart.  

[HardeeHarHar]

I'm neck deep in the HMS Granado as a 2nd build, and I am running on 2 years and haven't started the rigging. I can't imagine doing the Victory for many reasons, but the most important one is, I don't think my lifespan would accommodate it.  

[glbarlow]

The Victory and first time builder don’t go together in the same sentence in my opinion, plus 1/72 isn’t a fun scale. There are plenty of interesting tall naval ships that present a good challenge, like Vanguard’s HMS Flirt. These will  teach the necessary skills and not be a source of frustration.

Edited September 27, 2022 by glbarlow

[Bill Morrison]

19 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

Different ships, different long splices, I guess. Me, when I see the word Victory, I just yawn and keep on scrolling. I'd rather see a good model of a working boat than a naval vessel any day. I guess I'm just a pirate at heart.  

And that makes modeling great.  And it reinforces my argument. Build to your interests. Don't build to mine. By the way, naval vessels are, in fact, working vessels.  I served on seven of them.  Ask my wife about how hard we worked.

 

Bill

Edited September 27, 2022 by Bill Morrison
To add a comment.

[Wawona59]

I would definitely read jaeger's and ccoles posts again as well has his article.  Build a smaller POB model first; preferably one that is not bluff bowed and has a simpler stern.  Frank Mastini's Ship Modeling Simplified can give you some ideas on setting up shop and basic POB modeling methods.

 

If you heart is set on building a 50" Victory start compiling your research now.  I recommend:  Nepean Longridge's:  anatomy of Nelson's Ships which is a classic, John McKay's The 100 gun ship Victory from the Anatomy of the Ship Series. This will give you a good start in your research.  Have fun!

Wawona59