Split ring making process

[Dave_E]

Hi All,

 

Old subject, but I have just reviewed 8 pages and didn’t find anything. I know I’ve seen pictures in build logs (but that is now an infinite possibility). Wanting to build to scale (somewhat), I see the need for split rings of various sizes. Building in 1:64 presents some challenges. The smallest split rings I can find commercially are 2mm. I’m guessing that all the measurements from the different suppliers mean the size is the inside diameter of the ring. My cannon work for example needs rings that have a 1mm ID. That’s pretty small and am not having much luck producing a good looking split ring that small. 
 

Any technique assistance from you make them yourselfers would be greatly appreciated! 👍😀

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Aside from split rings for jewelry/beadwork sold in craft stores such as Hobby Lobby or JoAnns - there are also specialty stores FOR these crafts.  Still, there are limits as how small JUST split rings are made.  BUT, there are VERY fine chains sold that are made up of ... rings that can be disassembled (as they are split).  So find chain having circular links the size you want, and use 2 very fine needle nosed pliers to separate the links.  You'll likely nee a head held magnifier and steady hands - but then those are needed for a lot of the work we do.

[Jaager]

The technique that I read and stored in memory:

a drill with a shank diameter equal to the inside diameter of the rings

brass or copper wire that is the diameter of the ring body

wrap a tight coil of the wire around the drill shank

saw the coil = lots of open rings

solder

 

I am wondering if a resistance solder machine would play nice for this?

A plot devise in "Crash and Burn" had a primary character go loony from breathing the heavy metals in circuit board solder - so I good ventilation with soldering may be prudent.

 

Copper and brass are ductile - with a jewelers draw plate, theoretically one fat wire can be drawn down to any diameter desired.

There is more to it than that - for brass at least - working it causes it to harden - it gets harder to pull

Heat will harden Fe  -  I think heat will soften brass  and maybe Cu?

Edited February 11, 2023 by Jaager

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, Jaager said:

The technique that I read and stored in memory:

a drill with a shank diameter equal to the inside diameter of the rings

brass or copper wire that is the diameter of the ring body

wrap a tight coil of the wire around the drill shank

saw the coil = lots of open rings

solder

 

You forget the last three ring making steps:

 

Drop the completed ring on the floor.

Spend fifteen minutes looking for it while talking dirty before giving up.

Repeat.

[CPDDET]

I find wrapping wire around the shank of a properly sized drill bit works best for me. The real challenge is keeping the diameter of the wire to scale. If the actual ring was made from 1/2 inch diameter, round, metal stock, then at scale the diameter would be 1/128 inch? Probably 36 - 40 gauge wire?

[Dave_E]

If got the thickness of the wire down and the ID down, but it’s the cutting that I’m having issues with. Getting a nice flush cut is imperative and then cutting so you end up with a nice circle. 😳

[CPDDET]

Hmm. Cutting with any kind of nippers will not provide a truly flat surface to butt against each other, if that's desirable. Never tried using a fine tooth jewelers saw or razor saw but that might work. But would have to make the cut while the wire is still wrapped around the dowel or drill bit shank. There would also be some loss of material (the kerf of the saw blade) causing you to end up with a smaller ID than desired. However,  using a slightly larger dowel / drill bit shank could compensate for that. Perfection may not be attainable?

[Roger Pellett]

Try a very fine tooth razor saw.  Soldering also requires some special consideration. Otherwise when you try to solder your ring shut you will just wind up with a blob of solder.  Very small diameter solder is available.  I recently bought some .015in diameter from Amazon.  You should also use a soldering iron with a very fine tip.  Better quality soldering irons are now available with easily changed tips.

 

Roger

Edited February 12, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[CPDDET]

After some thought it may help to dab a bit of CA on the dowel after wrapping the wire. This would aid in holding things while making the cut. Afterwards just drop the dowel and wire into acetone to dissolve the CA.

[CPDDET]

My mind is still dwelling on this, crazy huh?

Another cutting method might be a very thin cutoff disk in a dermal tool? 

I have some of these disks, very thin and quite fragile. But they cut beautifully. 

I'll check the name and post it.

[CPDDET]

And fairly inexpensive 

Edited February 12, 2023 by CPDDET
change

[Jaager]

16 minutes ago, CPDDET said:

these disks, very thin and quite fragile.

There is a shop note - I have not saved the author's name or journal reference - but he got a much longer life from his disks by coating one side with epoxy glue - I think the watery clear flavor epoxy.

[CPDDET]

They are very susceptible to side shock 

[Gregory]

43 minutes ago, Jaager said:

There is a shop note - I have not saved the author's name or journal reference - but he got a much longer life from his disks by coating one side with epoxy glue - I think the watery clear flavor epoxy.

Coating with CA might work as well.

[Dr PR]

If you are using very small diameter wire just cut it with a hobby knife and a chisel blade (square ended). Fasten the drill bit in a vice and support the bit and wire coil before trying to cut. It really doesn't matter if the cuts run straight down the drill bit because all of the rings will be the same diameter in any case.

 

For soldering use a tiny bit of liquid solder flux in the gap (use a small paint brush). Then put a tiny bit of solder on the soldering iron tip and touch it to the joint. The flux will pull the solder into the joint. You should be able to pull the soldering iron tip away and have it carry any excess solder. You may get a tiny "spike" where the tip pulled away, but that can be removed with a file. Or wipe the soldering iron tip clean on a wet sponge and touch the joint again to carry away more solder.

 

I can't see a resistance soldering iron having any advantage in this case. You need two separate electrical circuits at the gap between the two pieces to be soldered in order to generate current flow and heat in the gap. The tiny ring is a low resistance loop between the ends to be soldered so there would be no potential difference between the ends of the ring and no current flow in the gap. The heat would be generated between the soldering tip and the metal ring, and not in the gap between the ring ends. This is no different from just using an ordinary hot tip soldering iron.

[Dave_E]

Quite the discussion, thank you all. Food for thought! The soldering is out of my wheelhouse but I so admire the fellas that can do that! Trying to solder a gap on a ring that might only be 2 mm in diameter has never crossed my mind. Having good cuts of the ring can make the joint as invisible as a solder joint in my mind. I’m also using darkened annealed wire of various thicknesses. Lots of good ideas here to ponder and try. 👍😀

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Gosh - I forgot about how I used to make rings for chain mail ... That was to wrap coat hanger wire around a 1'2" rod to make a coil, then cut off links with aviation snips.  Yeah, the ends weren't flush - but a couple passes with a file would smooth things.  Now TINY rings are another matter, but using small 'flush cutters' on brass wire would leave one side nearly flat.  But if the best flatness is desired, the sawing method sounds like a plan.

 

  There are fine saws for cutting 'tubular' (or other) metal model train tracks that are  rigidly backed. 

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, Dave_E said:

Lots of good ideas here to ponder and try.

Thanks for starting this.  I have struggled with making these look good.

 

I really like CPDDET's fine cut-off disks.. I now have some on order.

Like everything he does, Chuck makes it look so easy.

 

He's probably made thousands of these.  If only he would start selling them..

[wefalck]

Jewellers (silver-)solder rings on a cone-shaped carbon-rod. While, it is not carbon, but graphite mixed with clay, one could perhaps use a lead-pencil mine as mandrel for soldering. They come in various diameters or one could just sharpen an ordinary pencil and put this into a vice for soldering. Solder paste would be the way to go.

 

I am wrapping (soft) wire around a drill shaft, pull it off and then cut the rings with a scalpel on a glass plate. In this way the kerf is on the inside of the ring, where it is less visible even when not soldered. In this way I can produce rings with 0.3 mm inside diameter, if needed. 

Edited February 12, 2023 by wefalck

[allanyed]

Copper wound around a drill bit as mentioned then cut with scalpel or chisel as also mentioned.  Holding the ring with tweezers and using low temp silver solder paste works beautifully.  I have been using Solder It Silver Bearing paste which melts at 450F (232C) with great success.  A tiny dot of the paste is all that is needed especially with #33 gage copper which would be 1/2" at 1:64.   

Allan 

Edited February 12, 2023 by allanyed

[Gregory]

While I'm sure soldering produces a great result it introduces a another set of tools, materials and skill set, and the result requires blackening.

It might fit better in another topic, as the one who requested help said:

 

Quote

 

"The soldering is out of my wheelhouse but I so admire the fellas that can do that! "

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Gregory

[wefalck]

Well, soldering is a basic skill any shipmodeller should attempt to acquire (not that I am real master of it myself ...) and I owned a soldering iron since my early teens. They cost just a few euros/pounds/dollars/yens/etc., so there is not big hurdle to take for some basic equipment.

[Oldsalt1950]

You basically have two choices when making a split ring. You can either solder the small gap to close it , or glue it with CA/ Epoxy. You then have two choices again for blackening it, paint it or chemically blacken. My choice is solder because i am more familiar with it having worked as an Electronics Tech, Avionics Tech, Sonar Tech for 20 years in the service, and having done prototype wiring and work as an engineering aide in civilian life. Soldering takes practice and one must match the equipment and materials to the job. Working on such fine material size wise, heat is your biggest problem. You can't use silver solder as the melting temperature is too high and you will destroy the ring. You can use silver bearing paste or regular Lead/Tin solder but be sure it is not acid core. You will also need a couple of files to clean up the solder joint when finished. If you decide to use CA/Epoxy to make the joint/ring whole you will still need to clean up the joint once finished. Stay Bright and a few other silver bearing solders can be chemically blackened, or you can paint the ring.

 

Jim

 

[Retired guy]

Hi Dave,

I make all my split rings, eye bolts from brass, have a wide thickness ranging from .011" all the way up to .062" , bought the smaller lot from Clover House.

 

These are the tools I use

 

Using .014" brass wire (1/72 scale ) to make a 3 1/2" x 2 1/2" ring in full size 

 

Frist measure the round nose pliers to find 1mm then bend

 

Then cut the straight part using the flat side of the cutter 

 

 

 

Use the round pliers again to make it round and just go over a bit

 

Then use the flat pliers to hold ring and use the flat side of the cutter to cut right next to the cut you had done

Once cut use the flat nose pliers and to flatten 

 

For the eye bolt you bend the ring instead of cutting

 

 

These don't take long at all and they are ready to solder or what ever.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards

Richard

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Retired guy

[CPDDET]

Always nice to get ideas/ advice from a master like yourself.  Thanks!

[Paul Le Wol]

Hi Dave, you have gotten a lot of very good advice. Like you, I am also using darkened annealed wire to make rings and eyebolts although not at such a small scale. I’ve been getting away without soldering or gluing because nothing I’ve done is under tension. (Cannon rigging)  The nice thing about annealed wire is that you can burn off the coating with a micro torch if it becomes scratched while working it and you end up with a dark grey flat finish. I belong to the group that believes you should do as little as possible to get the results that you are happy with 😀

[allanyed]

On 2/12/2023 at 3:48 PM, Retired guy said:

.011" all the way up to .062"

Do you know if they make it in smaller diameters?  0.011 is too large for some rings for scales of 1:64 or smaller.  Copper comes in smaller sizes and is easy to solder (soft or silver bearing) and can be blackened with liver of sulfur or painted once cleaned up.

Allan

Edited February 14, 2023 by allanyed

[ah100m]

I've got wire down to 0.006" (0.16mm).  Search for "Artistic Wire" (brand name) on Amazon.

[wefalck]

Well, copper wire is normally available in electronics supply shops down to 0.05 mm diameter. Silver wire you can get down to 0.02 mm I think, check on ebay et al. for 'jump wire' - they are used to repair broken connections on circuit-boards of mobile phones for instance. All these wires are very soft and deform easily, also such thin wire break very easily. NiCr (Kantal) wires are also available down to 0.05 mm diameter, I believe, but they are very hard and springy and difficult to cut. 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

   A few posts up I mentioned making chainmail back in the day (while in College, between classes) - and I finally found an old picture of me wearing it prior to a mock Battle of Hastings re-enactment (the 'vest' of mail had not yet been fitted with sleeves, and would also be lengthened - and a fine mail coif was later fashioned - all eventually sold).  That time I portrayed a Saxon archer with long bow (there were some at the battle).  My arrows were blunt and padded, and only fired (after notice of a volley was given) when the Normans raised their shields.  

 

  The melee weapons were a plywood axe and a strap iron short sword with wooden handle & cross guard.  The helmet frame was bent aluminum, still awaiting metal quadrants to be formed and riveted in place.  Saxons lost ... as usual, but I did not flee the field so died a brave 'death'.  That evening, the victors and the raised dead all feasted in a Church hall - eating roast meat and lentils served on bread 'trenchers' and home-brewed 'short mead' quaffed from cow horns or grails ... a beer-like fermented concoction of honey, water plus wine yeast allowed to work a few days in a plastic garbage can.  Like in Valhalla, songs were sung and tales were told, and there was some fine wenching as I recall.