mini table saw

[JPAM]

Hi all.. I am looking to get a mini table saw from Amazon, there are several to choose from under $100 dollars, I only needed to cut planks as my regular table saw takes away a planks worth of material. does anyone have an experience with them? or could recommend one? thanks. 

 

 

fair winds. 

 

jp

[allanyed]

Cheap table saws are not famous for accurate cuts, but for planking, if you have a thickness sander, then one these might work out for you even if the planks vary coming off the saw.   If you post some pics of the saws you are considering, hopefully some members have one or more of these and can make recommendations based on their own experience. 

 

The old adage probably applies, you get what you pay for.    If you plan to use this for a lifetime, consider investing in a Byrnes saw, it is likely the best available anywhere.

 

Allan

Edited August 16, 2023 by allanyed

[Roger Pellett]

If you are willing to spend the time and effort to accurize the saw it MIGHT work.  There are two features integral with the saw that you should consider as you will not be able to change.

 

Arbor size:  As you obviously know this will determine the blades that you will be able to use.  High quality model makers saws use machinists slitting saw blades.  Cheaper mini table saws often come with  blades with very low tooth count and a lot of “set.”  Will you be able to replace the supplied blade with something better.

 

Power:  You can’t have enough.

 

When buying tools, Amazon is often poor at describing technical features that let you determine if they (the tools) will meet your needs.

 

Since you have a full sized table saw, have you checked the full range of blades that might be available?  A fine toothed blade without set to the teeth used in a full sized saw is a viable alternative to a mini saw.  Way back when, Sears used to sell a “Kromedge Thin Rip Veneer Blade.”  This was a fine tooth hollow ground blade, ideal for our purpose.  You can sometimes find them on EBay.  Make sure that they are new as re-sharpeners like to set the teeth.  You can also find larger diameter industrial slitting saws that will work. You will also need a zero clearance insert.  For common brand table saws blank resin insert castings are available from specialty woodworking suppliers.  Rockler also sells a well made Thin Rip Guide.  This is a big brother to the NRG guide, intended to fit full sized saws with a standard miter gage groove.  This eliminates the need for the piece being cut to be pinched between the blade and the fence.

 

You might also want to accurize your full sized saw.  The best way to do this is to hook up a dial indicator to your miter gage and run it back and forth against the fence. You can check the alignment of the arbor the same way against a blade mounted in it.  There should be machine screws that can be loosened.

 

I personally think that your $100 would be better spent outfitting the saw that you  already have.

 

Roger

Edited August 16, 2023 by Roger Pellett

[JPAM]

I appreciate your comments fellas. the reason why I want an inexpensive one is that I've never had a need for a mini table saw before, and I've built many models. I have some wonderful mahogany stock from a full size boat I am restoring and in an effort to put this old mahogany back on the water I want to build a stiped planked Marblehead pond yacht. so I would only use it to cut the planks and that is that. nothing fancy needed. my full size table saw is well set up but for scale planks is just too much, although I've done it before, I just don't disregard my fingers anymore. 

https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Precision-Portable-7-Level-Woodworking/dp/B0BZZ3XVHJ/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=1PA3OVO1PFRLZ&keywords=mini+table+saw&qid=1692211225&sprefix=mini+table+saw%2Caps%2C157&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09KNLTN59/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_i=&pd_rd_i=B09KNLTN59p13NParams&s=hi&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C8H8MFG7/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B0C8H8MFG7&pd_rd_w=3AwKn&content-id=amzn1.sym.eb7c1ac5-7c51-4df5-ba34-ca810f1f119a&pf_rd_p=eb7c1ac5-7c51-4df5-ba34-ca810f1f119a&pf_rd_r=8W8HGR5EBQKP8JWDA53V&pd_rd_wg=W3GUr&pd_rd_r=291e41d6-bd6e-4d8a-ba22-2cc70e26c5b9&s=hi&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWw

they all cut no deeper than a half inch so they are pretty limited, but that's about all I need. 

[Bob Cleek]

The truth of the matter is that there isn't a mini-table saw selling anywhere for around a hundred bucks that is suitable for the purposes you intend to use one for. This is because the two essentials in any small table saw are accuracy and torque. Each requires manufacturing costs directionally proportional to the degree of accuracy and the amount of torque the machine can produce. The $100 Chinese mini-table saws generally run 12 VDC high speed / low torque motors running around 5,000 RPM. A high speed motor is fine for lightweight work or for abrasive work. (e.g.: a ceramic cutting disk on a Dremel mototool for cutting brass tubing.) For cutting, torque, the twisting power of the motor shaft, is required. Less expensive powered tools trade speed for torque. In some applications, this is acceptable, but not where the motor lacks the torque to meet the demand of the job and "stalls out" or overheats. Simply put, high torque motors cost more to produce, which puts them outside the range of the $100 Chinese Amazon Specials.

 

Similarly, accuracy in any powered tool depends upon mass. The weight of a powered tool is generally the quickest way to judge its quality. In micro-table saws we're not talking forklift grade weight, but the principle still applies. "Fit and finish" is also critical to accuracy.  Saw fences that are adjusted with stamped metal wing nuts are a sure sign that the machine isn't going be capable of the accuracy one requires to do decent modeling work. Stamped metal parts instead of CNC-machined parts are another indicator of low quality and undependable accuracy tolerances.

 

If all you have to spend is a hundred bucks, I agree with Allen and Roger: you'd be better off tuning up your full-sized table saw with a finishing blade and dance with the girl you brought. Of course, a decent specialty table saw blade can cost you more than $100 these days, as well.  

 

It is worth noting that MicroMark and Proxxon, retailers of modeling tools and supplies, each also offer respectable micro-table saws. While they are in the same price range as the Byrnes table saw, the Byrnes machine is a much better built machine, more technologically advanced, and generally considered a better value for the money.

 

If I were you, which I'm not, I'd save my money until I could afford to buy a Byrnes Model Machines table saw. Byrnes Model Machines - Thickness Sander (Yeah, I know it says "thickness sander," but that's actually the saw page.) They are presently on vacation but are supposed to return the end of this month. The price of their saw isn't listed at the moment, I guess because they aren't shipping any until they return from vacation. One will probably run you six to eight hundred bucks, depending upon the cost of shipping and the options you elect to have on it. I know this is a lot of money for anybody, but for anyone who wants to even just cut their own strip wood for modeling, this saw will pay for itself in surprisingly short order. It will also hold its value and you will be able to readily sell it if you ever wish to do so. (Which, if the lack of eBay listings are any indication, isn't likely to happen.) I don't own stock in the Byrnes Model Machines company, but I hold Jim Byrnes and his products in high regard. The Byrnes "Jim Saw" is universally recognized as the finest micro-saw of its kind ever made and is an especially excellent machine that will afford you pride and joy of ownership and use for generations to come. It's worth skipping a few dinners out, shots at the local bar after work, or even a few hours of overtime on the job to acquire one! 

 

While it's advice that's ignored as often as it's offered, when you need a tool, buy the best tool you can afford. The most expensive tool is the one you have to buy more than once!

 

 

[bridgman]

Beware of the "doll house table saws"! If you have any   experience with any full sized table saw

you will be appalled with the sloppy fitting of their parts fences , miter gauges for example.. Buy one if you are up to work arounds to 

make them do what you want!

Been there done that.

Bridgman Bob

[druxey]

Bob offers you the best advice if you intend to buy a small table saw.

[Jaager]

You really don't want to buy a low cost mini tablesaw.

 

To ask this in eastern Kentuckian: Where are you at?  (This is a geography question.)

 

To assuage a compulsion  I posit that no species sold as Mahogany is suitable for a ship model that is to be clear finished.

Even the old genuine Cuban / Honduran is too coarse and has open pores,  the stuff that is now passed off as Mahogany is less and is an insult to the original.  If painted or for your proposed use, it will probably work.

 

If this is only a one off project,  seeking outside help may be more cost effective.  A bandsaw with a Wood Slicer will produce a surface similar to a hollow ground Sears finish blade and the kerf is about 1/2.   Find a neighbor with a big bandsaw and buy a blade that is the size that his machine mounts.  If he has a bimetal, minimal set, you are golden.  You will just need to use 80 grit as well as the 120/150 grit and 220 grit that the WS blade product will want. 

 

I propose that even now, a pristine used Byrnes saw will sell for about what you pay.  When Jim retires from production,  they will probably go for more than you paid for it.  It is unique in quality, precision, and accuracy.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Jaager

[Andy Whincup]

Hi guys, firstly, Does anyone know what is happening over at Jim Byron’s model machines? I know they were on vacation but it first said they would be back mid august, then it changed to mid September, now you can’t get a call answered or email replied to. Have they shut up completely now? And secondly if Jim Byrnes has indeed retired for the foreseeable future, is there anything else out there anyone can recommend for table saw? 
much aporeciated

 Andy

[Bob Cleek]

Patience, Grasshopper.  

 

I checked their website and they've explained their current unavailability: 

 

We are temporarily closing the website to machine orders
to allow us some personal time with family, a vacation,
and time for shop maintenance and inventory.

Our current plan is to reopen some time in mid-September.

Until then, you may continue to order accessories for all
the machines - we're just not accepting orders for the machines
themselves because our equipment will be shut down
during this time period.

 

https://byrnesmodelmachines.com/contact5.html 

 

I certainly hope they are well and not for some other reason indisposed, even if the untimely demise of the Byrnes Model Machines company would probably cause the value of my Byrnes machines to skyrocket like fine art does when the artist is no longer able to paint any more.

 

From what I have always understood, Jim and Donna Byrnes run this little "mom and pop" machine shop where they build the Byrnes Model Machines. I expect they have an employee or three, but not a lot more. From all indications on MSW, if you phone the company, you will probably get Jim or Donna answering the phone. Amazon they ain't, but then again, try getting Jeff Bezos himself on the phone at work sometime!  

 

It's not a huge factory with machines rolling off the assembly line 24/7. There is a relatively small market for these specialty machines (which probably should more accurately be called "instruments!") These machines are practically custom-made, or as the Brits would say of their fine Saville Row suits, "bespoke." If they take time off for a vacation, and/or to clean up the shop and put things back in order at the expense of production, that's to be expected. Give them a call at 407.657.4663 during business hours, Florida time, or send an email through the "contact us" menu drop-down on your website and I expect somebody will be there to help you out. If not, wait a bit and see. It seems we get these "Where's Jim?" posts every time the poor guy and his wife try to get away for a little bit. 

 

That said, if you have decided to "pull the pin" on buying a Byrnes machine, I certainly can understand your frustration!  

Edited September 26, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[NoelSmith]

The German company Proxxon make small table saws and other model makers power tools.

They might be worth a look. 

I don't know what torque the motors generate on Proxxon machines though but they look to be decent bits of kit from what I can see.

The little Unimat Lathes have a small table sawing attachment as an accessory that also might be worth a look too.

Edited October 23, 2023 by NoelSmith

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  As is often the case, you get what you pay for - so if seems 'too good to be true', it isn't.  In a pinch, I bought a low-cost mini table saw from Harbor Freight that had some issues.  For one thing, it only came with a coarse blade - not of much use for us - so I had to look for mini blades having a 1/2" arbor hole.  This took some looking, and a set of three different blades was found on line to get the one fine-toothed blade needed.

 

  The height adjustment of the blade above the table is crude, but that's not too much of an issue.  But there is NO fence - a distinct disadvantage.  I ended up clamping wood the the table top to act as a fence.  The base of the unit is on the small size, and not nearly as stable as preferable.

 

  So something like a Byrnes is obviously a much better thing to have ... perhaps Ebay might be a place to look for a used one.  At one time I was into re-conditioning U.S. Civil War era arms (lower grades, known as 'shooters' - vs stuff to collect), and a man ran a shop on his property where he made a wide variety of bullet molds for antique guns (Rapine bullet mold company), as well as loading dies and other stuff useful for antique weapons.  Time passed, and he retired.  Since no one bought the business, it just 'went away'.  

[Bob Cleek]

On 10/23/2023 at 12:16 PM, NoelSmith said:

The little Unimat Lathes have a small table sawing attachment as an accessory that also might be worth a look too.

I have a Unimat SL 1000 lathe (sold as the Unimat DB in Europe) which I use for turning and milling small jobs in metal, wood, and plastics. The Unimat SL/DB model has a post to which the motor and headstock are attached to turn it into a milling machine. There are several accessory attachments including a screw-cutting attachment, a table saw with about a 6" by 7" table, a wood planer, a wood router, a fret saw (scroll saw,) and a jig saw (sabre saw,) together with a full range of all the standard lathe and milling machine tooling. Emco in Austria made them beginning in the early 1950's until 1977. The SL/DB model was then replaced with the slightly larger Unimat 3 which ceased production in 1990,  There are many Unimat lathes in circulation and they now enjoy something of a cult following in the model engineering field even though the machines, motors, attachments, and tooling can only be sourced on the second-hand market in most every instance and notwithstanding the fact that the Sherline and Taig lathes and milling machines and even the ubiquitous Chinese Sieg "7 by's" are readily available and offer some advantages over the older Unimats.

 

The Unimats are finely finished machines capable of relatively fine tolerances as might be expected of post-war Austrian machine tools. Consequently, they were never inexpensive machines and today on the used market they continue to increase in cost, eBay being the main marketplace for all things Unimat. (Prices seem to be lower in Europe than in the US, apparently because there are more of them in circulation over there.) Today, the accessories and tooling are less commonly available than the basic machines, which seem to have been bought and used little more often than the accessories. As with any lathe or milling machine, one should budget at least as much again for the tooling as for the basic machine. 

 

At present on eBay, a basic "user" Unimat DB/SL lathe in decent shape starts at around $500 and can easily approach $2,000 for a "mint" example in the original fitted storage case. Worn out rusty abused examples can be had for a bit less, but the cost of parts to bring them up to snuff may well exceed the price of one in good condition at a higher price. The tooling, so much of which is unique to the Unimat, is exceptionally expensive. (A Unimat collet chuck and a set of collets sells for just over $1,000... when they can be found.) There are presently Unimat table saw attachments on eBay listed at between $225 and $275. (And some incomplete ones for less, but good luck trying to find the missing part or parts essential to making the thing work!) 

 

So, if you know somebody whose widow has a Unimat and a lot of attachments and tooling down in the basement that she wants to get rid of cheap, grab it, but if what you really want is a table saw, you will likely pay half again, if not twice, what a new Byrnes table saw would cost you to possess a working Unimat with the table saw attachment which can't hold a candle to the Byrnes table saw because the Unimat was designed to be a lathe, not a table saw and the Byrnes saw is a table saw and nothing else.

 

See: http://www.lathes.co.uk/unimat/ for detailed information on DB2000 and SL1000 Unimat lathes.

See: http://www.lathes.co.uk/unimat/page2.html for information on Unimat accessories

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[NoelSmith]

That little SL was the first design Unimat Mini Lathe. A fine little machine.

I have a Unimat 4 that was made in Taiwan. The last Austrian made machine was the Unimat 3 I believe.

Unimat 3 and 4 accessories I think are interchangeable. As far as I can make out the 3 and 4 are identical machines, the 4 just being named that when it went to Taiwan for production. I bought my Unimat 4 a number of years ago and lost track of what Unimat have done since. Sounds like they ceased production judging by the  comments on this thread and it would be interesting to know when they stopped production altogether. I wonder why they stopped? Did Emco, the parent company close down or just decide to axe the mini lathes and accessories? I guess that maybe the Taiwanese machines were being made under licence to keep costs down. Others like Proxxon, Sherline, Taig and Cowells still produce mini lathes and it is surprising to learn that the Unimats being so well established in that market not being around any more.

Edited October 24, 2023 by NoelSmith

[bruce d]

3 hours ago, NoelSmith said:

Did Emco, the parent company close down or just decide to axe the mini lathes and accessories?

Unimat was the Austrian maker, 'EMCO' (Elliot Machine Company) was the UK distributor.  They had their own badges but there was no difference in the product.  The names are now intermingled in use.

I love 'em, prefer the SL/DB over the Unimat 3 but that is just my point of view.

[GGibson]

Hope JP found a saw that works for him within his budget.  Although I am just a kit builder, and don't see myself doing any scratch building, there have been enough times in cutting wood when I have said to myself "...if I only had..."   I just sent Jim & Donna an email for when they return... 👍🏆👍

Edited October 24, 2023 by GGibson

[RolBerg]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:30 PM, JPAM said:

Hi all.. I am looking to get a mini table saw from Amazon, there are several to choose from under $100 dollars, I only needed to cut planks as my regular table saw takes away a planks worth of material. does anyone have an experience with them? or could recommend one? thanks. 

 

 

fair winds. 

 

jp

If you live outside usa witch most people do Proxxon is a brand they sell in many country's. Cost a lot but it is a niche marked and the options for mini hobby tools are slim.

[NoelSmith]

Bruce. you are quite correct. I had forgotten that EMCO stood for Elliot Machine Tools.

From what I can remember they were based somewhere in or near the Acton area in North London I think.

The late Gerald Wingrove had an association with Emco, and can remember some of his creations displayed on their Model Engineering Exhibition Stand.

Is EMCO still going?  Is the Unimat company in Austria still going?

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  For what its worth, the Austrian Unimat SL from my Dad (he really never used it) has been handy turning and boring small, occasional work in brass and aluminum, but the main drawback is that it is underpowered for steel - unless the diameter is small and very light cuts are made.  Changing over to the milling arrangement seemed too  much effort.  (I have done milling odds and ends on my drill press with a stand equipped with a cross vise.)  The four jaw Unimat chuck was used for odd sizes, but centering was always a pain - so stock had to be trued.  Once I got hold of a used 3-jaw universal chuck, centering was automatic for round stock ... small diameter stock passed through the head entirely.

 

  If I was going to be doing a lot more metal work (which I'm not) I'd look for something a little more substantial with the power to do steel with decent cuts.

[bruce d]

4 hours ago, NoelSmith said:

The late Gerald Wingrove had an association with Emco, and can remember some of his creations displayed on their Model Engineering Exhibition Stand.

EMCO commissioned Gerald to write a book on using the  Unimat.  He was a good advocate for the lathe and accessories and was brutally honest when discussing them.

I heard that Elliott either merged or was taken over but don't know the story.  

[shipman]

I'm fortunate to own 2 Unimat SL's and a '3'.

+My DIY mini saw bench.

[NoelSmith]

I have a copy of that book Bruce, signed by Gerald.

It explains the making of a number of very useful small engineering tools utilising the Unimat with working drawings.

One of the things that I did make from his book was a four way tool post for the Unimat 3 and 4.

I keep it on the machine pretty much almost permanently. Saves me lots of time as I can keep certain tools set all the time and just swivel them into position.

To be honest, I am really surprised that Unimat never offered a 4 way tool post as an accessory to my knowledge.

 

Shipman.   Your table top saw. Did you make it yourself using a mini lathe as the motorised basis?  Looks pretty good to me.

Edited October 25, 2023 by NoelSmith

[shipman]

Hi Noel.

 

My little saw was based around a hand held motor which has a small drill chuck attached.

From there I based the rest on the basic Unimat table saw using available materials and a simple workshop pillar drill.

Can't remember where the blade came from (ebay) mounted on an arbor made from a bolt and locknut + LOD washers.

The rest is self evident.

Not exactly a precision tool, but once the fence is set, consistent cuts are easy.

I would only cut wood on it.

Its base must be securely clamped to a table/bench or whatever.

 

I also own that book, it's a useful addition to ones library and can be found at modest cost.

Edited October 25, 2023 by shipman
Added copy

[Bob Cleek]

On 10/24/2023 at 1:40 AM, NoelSmith said:

That little SL was the first design Unimat Mini Lathe. A fine little machine.

I have a Unimat 4 that was made in Taiwan. The last Austrian made machine was the Unimat 3 I believe.

Unimat 3 and 4 accessories I think are interchangeable. As far as I can make out the 3 and 4 are identical machines, the 4 just being named that when it went to Taiwan for production. I bought my Unimat 4 a number of years ago and lost track of what Unimat have done since. Sounds like they ceased production judging by the  comments on this thread and it would be interesting to know when they stopped production altogether. I wonder why they stopped? Did Emco, the parent company close down or just decide to axe the mini lathes and accessories? I guess that maybe the Taiwanese machines were being made under licence to keep costs down. Others like Proxxon, Sherline, Taig and Cowells still produce mini lathes and it is surprising to learn that the Unimats being so well established in that market not being around any more.

For all you ever wanted to know about Unimat lathes by Emco Gmbh, which are still in the lathe and machine tool business in Salzburg, but not making or marketing Unimat lathes, See: http://www.lathes.co.uk/unimat/ for all the detailed information on DB2000 and SL1000 Unimat lathes anybody would ever want to know.

 

I read somewhere there were quality control issues on the Taiwanese Unimat 4 lathes which were corrected, but shortly thereafter Emco discontinued the Unimat line entirely. (Somebody has recently licensed the "Unimat" trademark and is marketing a "Unimat 1" lathe, but it is basically a plastic toy and incapable of machining metal.) You are correct that the Taiwan-made Unimat 4's were essentially identical to the Unimat 3 lathes. I lusted after a Unimat lathe for years while they were still in production, but they were way too rich for my pocketbook back then.

 

I think Emco, which now concentrates on making state-of-the-art CNC machine tools, found that the economics of production in those pre-CNC/robotic days didn't pencil out anymore. One factor, perhaps, was that the market for a modelers' and clock makers' lathe, which wasn't all that big in the first place, took a big hit when people started watching television in the evenings instead of spending time on hobbies, and what market there was for such a long-lasting specialty tool was likely somewhat saturated at that point. There was also the somewhat unique business start-up environment of the times. Emco was started in 1947 during the European Occupation era by former Austrian machine tool professionals when there was easier money to be made in "beating swords into plowshares, but the policies and programs that subsidized the reconstruction of Germany and Austria were long gone by the time Emco ceased Unimat production.

 

(At that same time, I had a bicycle made by Steyr, an Austrian company. Steyer was one of Europe's largest arms manufacturers WWI. The treaty ending that war prohibited Steyr's making weapons, so it started building bicycles and cars in association with Daimler and Porsche. However, by 1938, Steyr-Daimler-Puch was back churning out rifles and pistols for the Nazi war machine using forced labor from the Mauthausen concentration camp. After WWII, Steyr was back making bicycles for a relatively short while and, today, is again a leading military arms manufacturer! I don't think Emco has the same skeletons in their closet!   ) 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[shipman]

There are plenty of Unimat tutorials on youtube.

The SL models especially are now in the 'collectors' realm and command premium prices for examples such as mine.

Originally a wide range of useful accessories were available.

For working in wood, brass and aluminium is what the Unimat was designed for.

As mentioned, working in steel highlights the limits of the tool, but otherwise it's fine.

 

To some, the little machine has a 'decorative' element and appeals to those wanting a 'desk toy'.

There's something 'Steampunkt' about them.

 

Much better modern equivalents are now available, but for it's time the Unimat was a welcome tool for all sorts of modelling and still provides its original functionality.

Edited October 28, 2023 by shipman

[Bob Cleek]

On 10/24/2023 at 11:16 AM, NoelSmith said:

Bruce. you are quite correct. I had forgotten that EMCO stood for Elliot Machine Tools.

From what I can remember they were based somewhere in or near the Acton area in North London I think.

The late Gerald Wingrove had an association with Emco, and can remember some of his creations displayed on their Model Engineering Exhibition Stand.

Is EMCO still going?  Is the Unimat company in Austria still going?

As mentioned above, the descendant of the Emco machine tool company, which made the Unimat line of mini- and small lathes and "combination tools," is still in business making high-end CNC machine tools. The ceased production of the Unimat DB/SL in 1977 and its replacement, the Unimat 3 and the made-in-Taiwan Unimat 4, in 1990. Basic Unimat lathes and used and new-old-stock parts remain available on eBay. 

 

Yes, Gerald Wingrove did have some connection with Emco and his book, Techniques of Ship Modeling provides a lot of information on the use of the Unimat DB/SL lathe and its attachments for ship modeling.

 

I checked out what seems to be a lot of confusion about the Emco name and ascertained that the name of the Austrian company that manufactured the Unimat lathes called itself Emco and at certain times Emco-Unimat or Emco-Maier. Today, however, the presently surviving iteration of the Unimat manufacturer's name is written EMCO Gmbh with the "EMCO" written in capital letters.

 

The Name of the British company that marketed and distributed Unimat DB/SLs under their label in Britain called itself at various times Elliott Machine Equipment Ltd., London or B. Elliott (Machinery) London which is still in business in England manufacturing and selling machine tools as they were when they were the British distributors of the Unimats.  There is no indication that the Elliott company ever used only initials instead of the Elliott name to identify itself. However, in the single instance of a Unimat label-badge at some point on which Elliott used a logo consisting of an "M" in the center of four "E's" arrange in a cross shape together with their "Elliott Machine Equipment Ltd." name in full. See: Emco Unimat Name Plates (lathes.co.uk) 

 

Additionally, to add to the confusion, there is a large heavy machine tool line referring to itself as both "ENCO" and "Enco" which is a subsidiary of MSC Industrial Supply Company in the United States.

 

And finally, there is a large and well-known plumbing and HVAC manufacturing and supply company in Ontario, Canada now named "EMCO Corporation." Founded in 1906, it was originally known as the "Empire Manufacturing Company, Ltd."

 

To make things even more confusing, Lathes.co.uk , the machine tool identification "Bible," has this to say about the Unimat manufacturer's present status:

 

By the early years of the 21st century the situation with regard to the makers of "Emco" machine tools was rather complicated;

Profi Heimwerkermaschinen Gmbh was a management buyout of a part of Emco Maier Gmbh, involving 60+ employees and the Wolfseg manufacturing plant - one of the four Emco factories. Profi Heim took over the Unimat, the Compact Lathes and the Emco Woodworking machines - with Emco Maier making the Compact 5 lathe for marketing by Profi Heim. Unfortunately, as of July 2001, Profi Heim went out of business.
Emco Maier continued to produce conventional machine tools - i.e the Maximat Super 11 lathe, Emcomat 17S, 17D, 20D and 20E Toolroom lathes, the FB3, FB4 and FB 5 Toolroom Universal Mills with some of these, together with a variety of CNC training lathes - this arrangement continuing until today (2015).
In a nutshell, ProfiHeim took over the hobby machines and woodworkers while Emco Maier retained the more industrial machines as well as, of course, the CNC machines for use in industry and education.
The "Home" Emco Web Site is www.emco.co.at
Maier Gmbh and Profi-Heim. For CNC machines contact www.emco.co.uk
In the USA the American Edalstaal Company originally handled the machines, but no longer have anything to do with them.
The Unimat 4 and Compact 8E ("E" for East) were made in China.

 

 

 

[NoelSmith]

Thanks for the rundown on your little table saw Shipman.

Just shows what can be done with soma basic materials and a bit of imagination/innovation.

It does what you want and that's the main thing.

 

Bob and Bruce your posts about the Unimat machines and what happened down the years to the parent company made for some very interesting reading, so thanks for taking the time to come back with all the info.

I looked on the Emco website links given and they have certainly moved on in a different direction.

 

I wonder now if anyone has bought the copyright to all the little Unimat machine designs?   It has probably all been either archived or perhaps even worse, destroyed.

Maybe a bit academic now with other miniature machines being currently available from other established manufacturers like Proxxon and Sherline.

[Jaager]

5 hours ago, NoelSmith said:

I wonder now if anyone has bought the copyright to all the little Unimat machine designs?

Way back when, I bought a Unimat SL.  Primarily because it was as close as I could come to getting something like Longridge's Midget Universal machine. 

It was for the woodworking aspect rather than the lathe.   At the time, there were essentially no stand alone model scale machines.  I burned out a motor

using the Unimat as a tablesaw.   (I also bought an Emco Maier BS3 - a large benchtop 3 wheel bandsaw. - It was a well made machine, but any 3 wheel bandsaw is based on an absolutely terrible design.  A perfect machine would still be awful to use.) 

 

The Unimat was pretty good at being a small under powered tablesaw, drill press, saber saw, disk sander, etc   At the time, there was little or no competition.  NOW, 

The Byrnes saw is at least 10 times more capable at its function.  There are a variety of mills and drill press machines.  A Rikon 10" bandsaw is a better jig/saber type scroll sawing machine.  I would not advise using it for heavy duty resawing though.  Byrnes has two models of disk sanders that are much better at that job.  There are more capable  small lathes.  The Unimat was great for its time.  Now,  it has been supplanted.  It had inspired competition from stand alone single purpose machines that were better at doing their portion of each of its functions.   As for a lathe and spar shaping -  a major negative is that the actual spars were shaped by cutting along the grain.  A lathe cuts across the grain.

[wefalck]

The Byrnes saw has one big detriment - it's bloody expensive once it arrives over here in the EU  😬

[Bob Cleek]

9 hours ago, Jaager said:

I burned out a motor

using the Unimat as a tablesaw.

Oh yeah! A well-known drawback was the "intermittent service" motor. As I recall, it was rated at something like 8 minutes. Beyond eight minutes of running, you had to stop it and let it cool down for a minimum of four minutes or it would burn out. Late in the production span, Emco came out with a "continuous duty" motor that solved the problem. I retrofitted one to my Unimat SL. There are now a number of aftermarket continuous duty motor work-arounds using converted DC motors from applications such as sewing machines, electric scooters, and exercise treadmills. All require some machining of the motor housing to permit mounting the motor to the drive pulley frame. 

 

9 hours ago, Jaager said:

The Unimat was great for its time.  Now, it has been supplanted.  It had inspired competition from stand alone single purpose machines that were better at doing their portion of each of its functions.   As for a lathe and spar shaping -  a major negative is that the actual spars were shaped by cutting along the grain.  A lathe cuts across the grain.

I completely agree. "multi-machines" (e.g. the "ShopSmith" system) always perform a number of operations, none of which as well as a machine dedicated to performing a single one of those tasks alone. But, as you note, in its time, the Unimat had no competition in terms of cost and function. For me, its greatest shortcoming in terms of functions is the set-up time when changing from one process to another. Another serious drawback more now than even when it was in production, is that its tooling is generally proprietary, this being a result of its small size as much as anything else. There are lots of options for tooling that is sized to fit any number of small machines made today, but finding tooling that fits the Unimat means finding used Unimat tooling on the second-hand market because almost everything "Unimat" is some odd-ball threading size or style or otherwise "just doesn't fit."

 

BTW, since we've drifted this far afield, if anybody is presently interested in a modeling lathe, aside from a Sherline or Taig, which, to be honest, are rather limited in what they can accommodate in terms of size and strength, one very good, and perhaps superior, alternative to any of the presently-manufactured small lathes today, are the "old 'arn" Craftsman 6" modelers' lathes, sometimes referred to by their Craftsman catalog model numbers as "109's." Mass equals accuracy in machine tools and old manual lathes in decent condition (or rebuildable) often offer the best value for the money by a large margin, particularly over the present-day products made by the "Chinese People's Patriotic Machine Tool Collective." Check the link below by a fellow who recently sold his to upgrade to an Atlas/Craftsman 12"X42" like mine. These are sometimes in need of a rebuild, but parts and tooling are far more available than for the Unimat lathes and much less expensive. A lot of the tooling for the old Craftsman metal lathes (which were standard models by leading lathe manufacturers that were labeled as "Craftsman" for sale by Sears and Roebuck) is "generic" and readily available from aftermarket suppliers. See: Craftsman 6" Lathe for Sale - Sold (shdesigns.org) and Scott's Atlas / Craftsman 12x36 (12x54) 101.07403 Lathe, Stone Mountain, GA (shdesigns.org)

 

Full disclosure: I was given my Unimat SL for free by the son of the original owner who didn't know what to do with it when cleaning out his father's garage. Having read Gerald Wingrove's The Techniques of Ship Modeling, which showed all the things Wingrove did with his Unimat SL, I'd long lusted after one, but didn't want to buy one for the reasons stated above, deciding on a Taig or Sherline and those were too rich for my blood at the time. I took the Unimat with much gratitude and then realized that it required a rebuild. I set about doing that and to acquiring sufficient tooling to do general turning and milling operations on it, scavenging eBay for the parts needed. It was like getting hooked on drugs... I got going with "just a taste" and the next thing I knew, I had perhaps $1,200 or $1,500 into it. So now I have a very well-tuned and capable Unimat SL. That said, I always had and still have a fully-tooled 12"X42" Atlas (Craftsman) lathe than will do whatever turning, or even milling with its milling attachment, that the Unimat will and a whole lot more beyond the Unimat's capabilities. I also have a restored 1950 King Seely drill press that is factory-equipped with a collet holder that screws onto the quill (solving the side-loading issues involved with trying to mill with a Morse taper connection to the quill) and an XY table for that which can do all the milling operations the Unimat will, and then a lot more. So, in the final analysis, I should probably have put the money and effort into a decent used Sherline lathe and perhaps a mini-mill. That would have cost more in the aggregate and wouldn't have been the surprisingly appreciating asset that the Unimat SL is, but I would have had dedicated mini-tools rather than the collection of compromises that the Unimat is.  Still and all, I don't know anybody who has been lucky enough to have acquired a Unimat in good shape who is unhappy with it, so?  

 

I never was enamored with turning spars on a lathe. They are of such a size and strength that you have to get into following back rests and for those you need to use a proper taper jig and by the time setup is done I end up realizing that it probably would have taken less time to just cut the taper into a square blank on my Byrnes saw and then plane the corners down and sand it round by hand with it mounted it in a spinning chuck in the drill press or on one of my lathes.