cookster Posted September 22, 2016 Author #121 Posted September 22, 2016 (edited) Mike, no, the frames are not glued to the bulkhead, neither are the hawse timbers. Everything is held in place with either brass pins or screws, and the square frames fit in the dados in the center bulkhead. The insides of the frames will be cutout on the scroll saw and rough faired, just as the outside was, off of the model, then installed and final faired by hand. So yes, there is still a lot of material to remove whenever I get to that point. The paper patters will be as removed as late in the framing process as possible, they are only glued on with Elmers glue sticks. I want to leave them as long as possible for reference while building, fairing, and laying out things. I "stole" this method from many builders on MSW but most notably Ed Tosti. (who built and wrote the Naiad books) I've found Isopropyl Alcohol is great for removing the reside from the glue sticks. Water works, but much slower. Thanks for looking in! Edited September 22, 2016 by cookster aviaamator, Mike Y, mtaylor and 1 other 4 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
cookster Posted October 16, 2016 Author #122 Posted October 16, 2016 I finally got around to milling the foot on the stem. Here it is setup in the mill. I mentioned way back the rabbet on the stem would be a "fake" rabbet. The way I fit the the center bulkhead, stem and bollard timbers makes a rabbet so I won't have to carve it. This is not prototypical, but for me it will work. Here the stem is pinned on temporarily. You can see the where the rabbet will be. Adding the bollards and cants forms the rabbet. Canute, CaptainSteve, archjofo and 9 others 12 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
cookster Posted October 16, 2016 Author #123 Posted October 16, 2016 And finally, I assembled it all back together (temporarily) to see how she looks. The cants, hawse and bollards are now rough faired on the outside face. I took a bunch of pics so pardon the photoblast. Soon I'll start shaping and fairing the inside faces. I also need to finish drawing out the rest of the stem's various pieces, and start building it. Thanks for the likes and for following along... albert, Dubz, dvm27 and 12 others 15 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
albert Posted October 16, 2016 #124 Posted October 16, 2016 Very nice work. Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote
Mike Y Posted October 16, 2016 #125 Posted October 16, 2016 It really puzzles me how do you manage to keep it all assembled using pins... Looks very tight, like it is already permanently glued in place! mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote Current build: Beavers Prize - POF 1:48 (Hahn style) Side builds: Schooner Polotsk by Master Korabel 18th Century Longboat by MS Finished: 21ft English Pinnace by MS
dvm27 Posted October 16, 2016 #126 Posted October 16, 2016 I look at MSW every day yet I've managed to miss your beautiful build in progress . Your first scratch build is marvelous, Wes! Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote GregwebsiteAdmiralty Modelsmoderator Echo Cross-section buildAdmiralty Models Cross-section BuildFinished buildPegasus, 1776, cross-sectionCurrent buildSpeedwell, 1752
cookster Posted October 16, 2016 Author #127 Posted October 16, 2016 Thanks everyone! Mike, yes pins and screws are doing the job. I use #2 screws to secure the cants to the center bulkhead, and the pins are for alignment. I've seen many folks on MSW use that method, I can't take credit for it. Greg, coming from you that's an supreme compliment! You are one of the builders I strive to emulate. dvm27, Canute and mtaylor 3 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
cookster Posted December 30, 2016 Author #128 Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) Past time for an update. Since my last post I found my cant frames and hawse timbers were not shaped correctly. I had sanded them too narrow. Part of this error was a drafting error on my part, and the rest was from too aggressive sanding. So after much thought and frustration, version 3 was started. Here's a pic of the amount of error. It's not small.... I could've moved on with the shape as it was and no one would've known, but it would've bothered me forever and i didn't want that. Also I've gotten pretty good at making cant frames, (as I've had so much practice.... ) I decide it would't be so bad. This time I'm following a more conventional process on the hawse timbers and am making them individually, instead of as a group as I did before. This should allow me to get a more accurate shape. I'm also using Ed Tosti's method of templates on both sides of the frames. I hope this increases accuracy. Here's a few pics before any shaping. This time I'm also making and using using templates of the hull outline at various heights, again to try and increase accuracy. I'm also working on the knee of the head, finally something different! Here's a few pics of the pieces in various stages. I haven't finished the head yet. Edited December 30, 2016 by cookster mtaylor, archjofo, Canute and 5 others 8 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
cookster Posted December 30, 2016 Author #129 Posted December 30, 2016 I'm again using the template routing method. I've described this before so no need to do again. Few more pics Here's milling the foot. It's not prototypical, but it's how I'm going to make it. Here's the back of the knee against the stem. And started shaping again. I hope THIS is the last time I have to do this..... Mike Y, GrandpaPhil, mtaylor and 4 others 7 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
cookster Posted January 7, 2018 Author #130 Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) Hi All, I'm back again. My apologies for another long break away from MSW and ship modeling. Sometimes life just has other plans... Anyway, I've made additional progress on the stem and knee of the head, using my mill to cut out the joints. Here's the stem and knee of the head so far, not finished yet Edited January 7, 2018 by cookster GrandpaPhil, mtaylor, archjofo and 1 other 4 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
cookster Posted January 7, 2018 Author #131 Posted January 7, 2018 I used a "few" clamps to clamp up and glue the knee and stem Since my last visit last year I have redone the can frames and hawse timbers again, now I am on version 3. Version 2 worked, but I discovered I had incorrectly shaped them. No one but me would've known, but I knew I could do better. I think the version I have now will work and I will be mostly satisfied. I don't think I can do any better, especially since these are based from plans I developed that I "hope" are accurate. Here is version 3 Still a long way to go before I finish them... CaptainSteve, mtaylor, archjofo and 6 others 9 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
rafine Posted January 7, 2018 #132 Posted January 7, 2018 Good to see you back Wes. I hope that we get to see a lot more of your remarkable model. Bob CaptainSteve and mtaylor 2 Quote Current builds on MSW: HMS Winchelsea 1:48: Medway Longboat 1:24 Prior builds on MSW: Schooner Halifax: Lumberyard 1/48 semi-scratch; Cutter Cheerful 1:48; Granado: Caldercraft 1:64; Frigate Essex: Kitbashed Model Shipways kit; Triton Cross Section 1:48; Kingfisher from Lauckstreet kit; Syren: Model shipways kit ;Kitbashed Fair American: Model Shipways;Prince de Neufchatel: Model shipways 1:64 Civil War Picket Boat
cookster Posted January 7, 2018 Author #133 Posted January 7, 2018 Thanks Bob. I don't know how remarkable it is, but thanks for the generous compliment. It's still not a true POF model and I'm definitely cheating on lots of things. The guys that build true POF are the experts. Baby steps I guess Hopefully I'll get this bow section done soon, I'm ready to work on something else! But, I knew I would struggle so it's no surprise... rafine and mtaylor 2 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
the learner Posted January 25, 2018 #134 Posted January 25, 2018 Fantastic build, I like the approach I will definitely follow your build! cookster 1 Quote Cheers, GuyThe LearnerCurrent Member NRG,SMA Current Build: HMS Triton 1:48 on line
cookster Posted January 27, 2018 Author #135 Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) I began shaping the knightheads using knives, chisels and sandpaper. Edited January 28, 2018 by cookster russ, GrandpaPhil, rafine and 2 others 5 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
cookster Posted January 27, 2018 Author #136 Posted January 27, 2018 Shaping the hawse timbers is almost complete. I'm also framing out the foremost forecastle port and sill at this time. I'm using brass rod pins as I've been doing all along, and now also using pins made from copper wire as they are much smaller in diameter. These are .020" in diameter. If I choose to show bolts at some point ( I still haven't decided on that) I will use copper pins and coat them with liver of sulfur to turn them black. Thanks for looking and following along. GrandpaPhil, WalrusGuy, rafine and 4 others 7 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
mtaylor Posted January 27, 2018 #137 Posted January 27, 2018 Beautiful work, Wes. cookster and CaptainSteve 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
uss frolick Posted October 28, 2020 #138 Posted October 28, 2020 Cookster, any updates? mtaylor and Canute 2 Quote
mtaylor Posted October 28, 2020 #139 Posted October 28, 2020 5 hours ago, uss frolick said: Cookster, any updates? His last logon was a month after his last post. I hope that he's just busy. Canute and uss frolick 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
uss frolick Posted October 29, 2020 #140 Posted October 29, 2020 I hope he’s all right. Too busy to log in once, in nearly two years, especially given the intensely intricate project that he was working on? Anyone know him in Atlanta? 🥺 Canute and mtaylor 2 Quote
cookster Posted October 30, 2020 Author #141 Posted October 30, 2020 ALL -- I need to sincerely apologize for not updating this topic in a timely manner the last couple years. The last two years have been filled with many life changes, deaths, depression/drama and so much I won't bore you with here. That however is no excuse for not posting an update or two. My apologies. Many thanks to Frolic for reaching out to me to see if I was still alive, lol. He has rekindled the interest I once had in this project and I will do my best to get back in the shop more often. I have made a little progress here and there and I need to take some pics to show where I'm at. Also, in a job move I lost my use of AutoCad and the large format printer/plotter I used, so I have to find replacement CAD software that's affordable and buy some type of large format printer. If anyone reading this has CAD recommendations please let me know. The biggest issue I have moving to another CAD program is 30yrs of AutoCad usage is burned in my brain so learning something else could be frustrating at first. On a positive note, 3d printers have gotten more affordable so I think I'll be investing in one of those at some point. 32 Cannons come to mind immediately, plus so much more little items for the model. Again I apologize and I'm glad to be back! Canute, lmagna, Mike Y and 4 others 7 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
VTHokiEE Posted October 30, 2020 #142 Posted October 30, 2020 No need to apologize, life happens (sorry it sounds like a rough patch unfortunately). If you do end up with a 3D printer I would highly recommend investigating the resin printers. I have an inexpensive FDM and the layer lines would probably bother me (or be a pain to remove) for a nice model. Your work looks really nice and I look forward to seeing your updates! Canute, Ryland Craze, lmagna and 2 others 5 Quote Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG)
rafine Posted October 30, 2020 #143 Posted October 30, 2020 Wes, great to hear from you again. Hope all is well now and we can all look forward to more of your remarkable build. Best regards. Bob Ryland Craze, mtaylor, Canute and 2 others 5 Quote Current builds on MSW: HMS Winchelsea 1:48: Medway Longboat 1:24 Prior builds on MSW: Schooner Halifax: Lumberyard 1/48 semi-scratch; Cutter Cheerful 1:48; Granado: Caldercraft 1:64; Frigate Essex: Kitbashed Model Shipways kit; Triton Cross Section 1:48; Kingfisher from Lauckstreet kit; Syren: Model shipways kit ;Kitbashed Fair American: Model Shipways;Prince de Neufchatel: Model shipways 1:64 Civil War Picket Boat
cookster Posted October 30, 2020 Author #144 Posted October 30, 2020 OK, a quick few pics to show where I'm at. I think I showed the stem previously, but here it is again - all glued up and ready to be cut to final shape. I need to drill the gammoning holes, I was hesitating doin g that cause once they're drilled that's that. So my procrastination on that may continue... I marked pencil lines on where the cut will be but it doesn't show up well. Hopefully the scarf joints show up when I apply finish. This pic will help show the shape and gammoning hole locations. I have the knightheads, hawse timbers and front 2 ports shaped. Once again I need to cut the hawse holes and I don't want to screw them up. I may drill a small pilot hole at the proper angle now that I can enlarge later, in case I goof up the location. Don't want to screw those up! Pardon the dust bunnies here, I just picked them up a took photos, lol. And have the internal side fared. This was a bear to do.... I still need to shaped the inner side of the stem post, double check my faring and the MAYBE I can finally glue this assembly together. That has been way overdue to get done... I also have to cut the stem post and stem for the bowsprit before gluing. Another operation I don't want to screw up! Ryland Craze, Mike Y, GrandpaPhil and 8 others 11 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
VTHokiEE Posted October 31, 2020 #145 Posted October 31, 2020 That inside fairing looks quite impressive! I’m right with you about being nervous to drill holes and similar but I have a feeling they will come out quite nicely given the build to date. mtaylor, lmagna, Canute and 1 other 4 Quote Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG)
uss frolick Posted October 31, 2020 #146 Posted October 31, 2020 Great to see you posting again, Wes. I really like the clean fairing of the cant-frames and hawser timbers. Nice. Interesting that you are working on the stem post. The Essex's stem was, according to Josiah Fox, the only part of the ship, above the waterline, that didn't have to be replaced! I have anecdotal evidence too, that she retained her Indian figurehead ... mtaylor, Canute, VTHokiEE and 1 other 4 Quote
mtaylor Posted November 2, 2020 #147 Posted November 2, 2020 Welcome back Wes. It's great to see you back. And no worries as the year or so has been very stressful for a lot of us. As for the large CAD printer, talk to your local builder's exchange. They have large printers and can handle many different file types. Also they're very reasonable on pricing. VTHokiEE and Canute 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
cookster Posted November 2, 2020 Author #148 Posted November 2, 2020 Thanks for all the replies and likes folks... So, after all the procrastination I suffered two years ago I decided "to hell with that and full steam ahead" or something like that - on the stem and cant frames. I taperd the stem, then glued it to the bulkhead/apron assembly. No going back now... There's pins in the bulkhead to hold the stem in alignment. I'm sure I showed those in an earlier pic somewhere. To taper the stem I used a large sanding block I use for auto bodywork. Made this job very easy. And here it is. I sure as heck hope I've built this correctly. You can now see the "fake" rabbet I mentioned somewhere back when describing how this assembly would work. I also shaped the apron to it's correct siding, or is it width - anyway how deep it is. I'm a tad concerned if I shaped it correctly, when I get the cant frame and bollards on I'll show what I'm referring to. The top of the apron/stem is not the final height or shape, I left plenty of extra to drill for the bowsprit later. I also chickened out on drilling the gammoning holes, I need to see more built before commit to those. Thanks as usual for looking in! Canute, Mike Y, usedtosail and 4 others 7 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
cookster Posted November 2, 2020 Author #149 Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) OK question for the experts. On the width, or depth, or siding (not sure of the correct term here) of the apron. I drew it and the bollards using various references. Josiah Fox's measurements are my defacto standard for this project so I'm sure I used his dimensions. My question is does the apron protrude out past the bollard timbers? I have drawn and built my version so it does. This means the deck clamps and inner planking will butt into the apron. I have seen this design on several references, but I think they were all English built ships. Did the Americans follow the same design? I would assume they did but I'm not sure. See the red arrows below for area in question. Keep in mind the apron, stem and bollards are not yet cut/drilled for the bowsprit. Any of you experts that know please chime in. I want to get this right if possible before I glue the cants on for good. (Frolick, do you know?) Edited November 2, 2020 by cookster GrandpaPhil and mtaylor 2 Quote Wes Cook Current Build: USF Constitution (Model Shipways) USF Essex (Scratch build) MS Syren (build log lost, need to rebuild) Future Builds: MS Confederacy
Stuntflyer Posted November 2, 2020 #150 Posted November 2, 2020 1 hour ago, cookster said: I also chickened out on drilling the gammoning holes, I need to see more built before commit to those. Wes, I'm Just curious as to why you wouldn't have done the gammoning holes prior to tapering the stem Mike mtaylor and Keithbrad80 2 Quote Current build - Sloop Speedwell 1752 (POF) Completed builds - 18 Century Longboat (POB) , HM Cutter Cheerful 1806 (POB), HMS Winchelsea 1764 (POB) Member: Ship Model Society of New Jersey
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