HMS Jason by Beef Wellington - Caldercraft - 1:64 - Artois-class frigate modified from HMS Diana 1794

[NMBROOK]

Good to see you back on your build Jason but sorry to see the rework,however it happens to us all.With something like this,I have walked away and come back to resolve it later. Definitely something to do with a cool head.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[jim_smits]

Looking really good Jason. I think we've all discovered errors after the fact. I've just found out I forgot to add the top gallant stays to main and fore masts and now I have to sneak them in amongst the running rigging.....

[Timmo]

You'll never regret a rework Jason. Nice tidy fix there.

[Blue Ensign]

Enjoyed catching up on your build Jason, you're making excellent progress on a complex build, the hull is starting to look very nice.

 

B.E.

[Beef Wellington]

Cheers gents...character building isn't it?

 

Carl - luckily its only one port per side that's out of position, even so, its quite a bit of work to fill the hole solidly and then reline and I've been leaving glue plenty of time to dry as I go.  I'll leave the explanation of how I noticed it to a future post as that is a another story in its own right.

[mtaylor]

Rebuilds not only build character, but also vocabulary... although I'm not sure that swearing like a sailor is called vocabulary by polite society.    :P  

[cog]

Glad to hear Jasson, still ... not much fun as a surprise ...

 

Mark, In that case, the wife must be scared stiff ... or used to verbal abuse ...

Edited August 20, 2015 by cog

[Beef Wellington]

Real quick update, the patchwork has been materially completed, think this turned out OK as it will be in an area that will be more visible.  Lime strip was used to back against the interior and exterior existing planking to provide a solid base for the patch planks.  On the interior, I tried to match the run of the planks to blend it in as much as possible.  Next will be (lots of) tidying of paintwork and some more coats of poly on the deck...

 

Exterior...

 

Interior pre- and post- a few coats of paint.

[cog]

Wizardry, Jason ... a magnificent job!!!

[Beef Wellington]

Moving on to adding some spirketting.  I just love the look of the NMM Minerva model, something that is increasingly influencing where I think I want to go with this model.  One of the features is the contrasting red spirketting against yellow quickwork which I'm looking to replicate here.

 

The primary challenge is that the all the gunport sills should be exactly the same height from the deck - although most are very close, there is a variance of no more than 0.5mm across the range, its enough to present some problems as the contrasting colours emphasize errors.  'Top and butt' Planks were mass produced slightly larger than needed by gluing a number of planks together and sanding to shape and then separating with IPA.  These were then individually tweeked to ensure the top of the top plank meets the lower sill and the sweep ports.

 

Although sadly not much of this will be seen, its a good opportunity to build some confidence and safely practice a skill while still making progress.  Lots of touchup still needed.

 

Edited August 26, 2015 by Beef Wellington

[Beef Wellington]

A Sternpost question...

 

Not so much an update as a "request for thoughts".  Looking to glue the lower counter template I made earlier in place, but something was not quite looking right comparing to the AOTS.  Then it struck me, the thickness of the sternpost should be considerably thicker (approx. 60% by my best approximation) near the top) than the thickness of the keel former (see red lines on picture below).  This seems common structural feature so am curious how others have approached this and thoughts on this topic.  Options seem obvious, but is the second option really worth the effort ?  Very interested in the thoughts and conclusions reached by others.  I'm leaning to option 1 as I think option 2 could just be too involved.

1. Status quo, stick with the 5mm width and taper toward the bottom.  By far the least effort, but not sure whether this will look too skinny.  A rudder coat could mask this as well.
2. Bulk up the stern post accordingly.  This would require much additional adjustment to the first planking to ensure second layer sits correctly to new termination, and would also require the rudder to be similarly beefed up.

 

[cog]

Jason,

 

the second option would not necessarly mean an additional change in the first planking ... you do need a rabbet for that second layer ... you could use shavings to thicken the planking near the sternpost

 

Cheers,

Edited August 30, 2015 by cog

[NMBROOK]

An excellent rework and some super clean and neat work Jason

 

Few kits do depict the taper on the sternpost,but it is quite a prominent feature on many vessels. if you are chasing authenticity.In actual fact,the keel should actually taper on most vessels over roughly the first and last third.Personally I would fit the tapered sternpost but not mess with the keel provided it is the correct width at the stern.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[Beef Wellington]

Carl - you're right, I didn't say it well, I'd probably need to add additional planking to the already laid first planking - it would mean adding quite a bit of thickness, maybe 1.5-2mm per side to the 5mm thickness already present.

 

Few kits do depict the taper on the sternpost,but it is quite a prominent feature on many vessels. if you are chasing authenticity.In actual fact,the keel should actually taper on most vessels over roughly the first and last third.Personally I would fit the tapered sternpost but not mess with the keel provided it is the correct width at the stern.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

 

Nigel, there is the rub, there is no provided sternpost.  The design of the kit is such that the rear of the plywood keel former IS the sternpost, which is why I had originally inserted the boxwood portion where the sternpost would be visible.  The keel is 5mm thick, and I'm estimating from the AOTS diagrams that it should be approx. 8-9mm at the top which seems quite a significant difference, and diminishes to approx. 3mm at the base.  Of course the rudder should match this, and this also comes in 5mm sheet.  I'd also need to rebuild the rudder in boxwood somehow, I only have a 5mm thick sheet of that.

[cog]

You are going to needsome thicker wood, Jason ... or live with the straight sternpost, which - knowing you - won't do ...

[NMBROOK]

I am with Carl Jason,I don't think you will be happy unless you make the changes to the sternpost.I think you have two choices,either buy some boxwood large enough or laminate two pieces of the 5mm.

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

[Beef Wellington]

You guys know me better than I know myself...   I've been looking at more pictures of completed models and all seem to stick with the 5mm sternpost/rudder thickness....but, the worm is in my head now and I think I'm pretty resolved to try to get it right, just need to figure out my approach.  I found some 1.5mm thick wood strip that I had to get a sense for what this would look like. 

 

 

 

[NMBROOK]

Jason I do think this taper is frequently overlooked by Kit builders.Whilst I am not familiar with kits from American manufacturers,the only European kit maker that depicts this taper and indeed that of the prow is Euromodel.I feel that addressing this point Jason,will take you model away from one of the typical 'kit traits'.You only need to look in the scratch build section and see how many parallel stern posts you can find

I can only applaud your decision for going this route

 

Kind Regards

 

Nigel

 

P.S.you probably know me better than I know myself My carvings will be returning to natural wood

[cog]

Jason,

 

I think Nigel has said it all ... Now 'go for it'

[Beef Wellington]

The rudder:

 

One I'd made my mind up to try to reflect an appropriate taper on the sternpost, I realized I didn't really know how it would be shaped, so I decided to make up a new rudder as that is clearly illustrated in the AOTS book, thinking I could then use those dimensions to determine the taper on the sternpost.

 

Bottom line, this was slow going as I don't have a huge assortment of power tools, but I had a lot of fun doing it!  5mm sheets of box were cut into approx. 9mm wide sections to allow final shaping and laminated together.  I kept the front and back sections until the last moment so in the event of a catastrophic error I'd have less rework.    I completely forgot to take progress pictures, but hopefully its relatively obvious.  After studying many diagrams and plans, I tweaked the location of the pintle cut outs to match the AOTS dimensions, the biggest change was the uppermost one, which I raised a fair bit.

 

Overall, very happy with the result compared to supplied part, I'm sure some final fettling will be needed before finally fitting.

 

Should also add a public service announcement, did need to buy a small amount of wood from Jason at Crown Timberyard, - easy online ordering, lovely boxwood, and reached my house approx. 7 days from ordering - great service.

 

 

The difference in dimensions can be seem compared to kit supplied rudder

 

The rudder head now looks much more in scale within the counter rudder hole.  Shots from below show how much of a 'build-up' will be needed to match the rudder dimensions.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Beef Wellington

[cog]

Jason,

 

Even without power tools, you've done that rather well, not to say very well ... looks like it belongs ...

[mtaylor]

Excellent work, Jason.  

[Ray]

Hi Jason nice rework one thing not mentioned so far is the rudder thickness will increase when the copper tiles are added as possibility the dimensions in the book would be with the copper plates on.

[Beef Wellington]

Thanks Carl, Mark, and the 'likes'..

 

Ray - great point.  I'm somewhat limited in my level of 'precision', basically, if I can measure it on my metal ruler then I'm good.  I've noticed that there are (not surprisingly) discrepancies in the AOTS book dimensions and without the plans its a bit of guesswork.  Bottom line, I'm using the measurements as a guide but not getting too hung up on it - if it looks right then I'm happy

[Blue Ensign]

Well thought through Jason, and an excellent result, beautifully clean work on the rudder.

 

B.E.

[Beef Wellington]

Second Planking phase 1:

 

Finished building up the stern post area with limewood strip to approximately where it needs to be.  Once I'm confident that the stern area will work, on will go the lower counter which will allow me to put the wales on.  I'm hoping to complete the wales first and then use this dictate the flow of the visible planking rather than install over the second planking.

 

The sternpost was marked off as best estimate of the end state thickness and used to guide planking.  I'm trying for a smooth run on the limewood, but then will be building up the second planking in 0.5mm increments to then sand this back as appropriate.

 

I'm using PVA glue for the second planking, its slower but I just don't like using CA glue.  There are also a couple of areas where the first planking is perilously thin so any additional strength will likely be beneficial.  Not going to invest any more time than necessity requires here - all of this will be covered by copper plates.

 

Limewood glued on but not sanded back.  This was a little demoralizing as essentially a lot of this was replacing a lot of the material removed from the keel former for the rabbet and bearding.  For anyone taking a similar approach keep this in mind right at the beginning of the build.

 

Limewood sanded to shape and second planking going on...

 

Additional 0.5mm thick strips added where needed for thickness...

 

Pre-finished 'step' look that will eventually be sanded smooth as required before the sternpost itself is shaped.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Beef Wellington

[cog]

You didn't pick up more than you can chew, but you've got some chewing to do, Jason. It looks promising though!!

[Beef Wellington]

And some results....

 

Quick report back on the 'double rabbet' approach taken at the beginning of the build, seems to have worked just fine.

 

1.5mm boxwood sheet cut to the profile of the sternpost, laminated to both sides and then tapered following the rudder profile. Rabbet where planking terminated at the sternpost seems to have turned out OK and I think the extra work will make the second planking in this tricky area go more smoothly....fingers crossed.  I also cut away quite a bit of the keel former above the rudder to ensure I'll be able to attach rudder at late stage when pintles are in place.

 

Sternview with rudder in place,  lower counter template not yet glued.  Question:  Do the proportions look about right?  All is in line with diagrams in the AOTS, but things look different in actuality.  Its easy enough for me to adjust now so please let me know your thoughts

Edited September 25, 2015 by Beef Wellington

[Barbossa]

Hi Jason,

 

It certainly looks allright to me.

Rabbets is just one ( among other ) details I did not care much about in previous builds, but it matters.

The photos speak for themselves.

[drtrap]

Well Jason, it seems that you'll start your third one before I finish my Snake....