San Francisco 2 by Shaz - FINISHED - Artesania Latina - Wood

[DCIronfist]

I wish you luck in this part....I read through and understood nothing of the rigging so far lol

[Shazmira]

First pair is to starboard..if starboard is the right side of the ship IF standing on the deck facing the bow. You just can't see them, because I haven't served them yet, and atm they are clipped up the mast and held out of the way.Honestly, that just happened to be the side facing me when I started...had no idea it made a difference lol.

I am making a jig like the one from your log for when I have to attach the deadeyes to the shrouds. Just haven't gotten that far yet. I find I seem to be all thumbs trying to get fat fingers around tiny pieces of string.

As for color. I only have what the kit supplied right now. They have me do shrouds in brown, and ratlines in black...probably because that was the cheapest way

I could use shoe polish to make the shroud lines black, but I am a bit worried about the possible mess. perhaps black paint as that will dry?

[gjdale]

Hi Robbyn,

 

I went looking for Ed's stuff only to find that I had the whole of his log from MSW 1.0 saved as a PDF.  I've copied the relevant pages and will send them to you.  The third page shows a great drawing of his deadeye jig - this is what I used to make mine. He explains in easy-to-follow language how it's done and used.  I've also included his advice/method for ratlines as that might help you in the next bit.

 

Just seen that the file size limit will prevent me from attaching here.  If you send me a PM with an email address, I'll send it straight to that for you. (File size is 4.3 Mb - must be all the pictures in it)

 

[sport29652]

Kiwi black shoe dye works great and it takes out all of the fuzziness, no bleeding when glued

[Shazmira]

Sport, does it soak into the thread and "dry" I don't want to be trying to run my ratlines later and running into shoe polish that is rubbing off on my fingers and being transferred to other places on the ship?

 

Grant pm sent

[lamarvalley]

Great question Robbyn about the transfer from the shoe dye. My guess would be it dries but... idk...

As we all know I'm not to this stage quite yet but my eyes and ears are open to absorb as much as possible.... and a new thread opened this morning which might become a good source of knowledge....it's rope stain in the rigging category... it's new so only a few replies so far but i wager this will yield some interesting stuff http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/2056-rope-stain/#entry49353

It might be worth a 'follow'... :mellow:

[Shazmira]

Thanks for the link Randy, going to take a look at it now. I don't know....trying to decide if I care what color the shrouds are. Brown is what the kit provided...why does it have to be black? This kit is so non-historic as it is, then all the tweaking we all do it makes it even less so, I get that the ratlines are supposed to be black, because the sailors would tar them so they could climb up them, the kit does provide black thread for ratlines.

I don't want to take down all the work I did yesterday to stain the threads, and I really worry about shoe polish when I know my fingers will have to be all over these lines in order to do the ratlines. I think I will just leave things as they are, take in the knowledge, and use it to prepare the next kit better. Knowing about the lines now, means on the next one, I can spend time dyeing the strings long before I get to that stage so they will be dry and ready to go when the times coms.

[Shazmira]

Boy, I am really having a bad reaction to the CA glue I was using to close the serving around the shroud lines, and attach them to the masts. My sinuses are so swollen, I can't breath through my nose at all  

I have heard people recommend using a mask of some sort, but I don't see how a doctors mask will keep the fumes out.

Think I need a respirator mask or something hooked to an oxygen supply lol.  

[themadchemist]

The CA really tears my eyes up. Ive quit using it for the moment. Seriously you might look for a paint respirator with canister filters. The clothe/fibre surgical masks can let vapours through.

[sport29652]

Robbin, once dry the dye does not bleed, BUT I would not apply it to rigging already on your model. It would bleed onto the wood. Maybe some other opportunity you could try it, works great. I wish I could find some brown or grey.

[mtaylor]

Robbyn,

 

Don't use the CA if you can help it.  Fabric glue, PVA or clear varnish will work to hold the serving without making the line brittle and your lung clogged.

[gjdale]

I'm with Mark, Robbyn,

 

Stay away from CA as much as possible. I have a similar reaction to you and avoid it if I possibly can. Use a thin thread to simulate seizing and then apply a dab of dilute PVA glue - that will work just fine.

 

As for the colour of your shrouds/ratlines, you are the Captain, so it's your choice. The shrouds, like other parts of the Standing Rigging, are tarred to protect them from the weather. The Running Rigging, which passes through blocks and is handled often, is generally untreated, so a 'natural' colour is appropriate. The ratlines on the other hand, present an interesting discussion and two schools of thought. Some insist they are untreated and so should be left natural, others say they are 'lightly tarred' and should therefore be black. My view on this last one is that you should go with what looks good to you. I like your approach of using this build as a learning experience. Some things you will naturally decide, nuh! - I'm leaving that as is, but I'll remember for next time. And that's okay too!

[Adrieke]

Robbyn. for the rigging you already put on, unless you already decided not to do it, is take like a dishwashing sponge cut to a small size dip in some black paint and gently rub it over the lines

 

as for the CA i had a bad reaction awhile ago thats when i decided to use one of the cheap masks i bought for sanding. that does seem to do the trick for me because you breath to the sides which is far enough away from wher eyou are applying the glue to not affect me.

[lb0190]

Hi Robbyn,

 

You may also want to experiment with a small fan set to a low speed (and maybe at an indirect angle) to help move the fumes away from you.

[lamarvalley]

Maybe skip the CA altogether and learn to love the slower set time of PVA... at least while waiting you can breathe and what the heck... maybe even whistle instead of wheeze..

[Shazmira]

Thanks for the advice on the CA. I am so absolutely miserable today, I can't do anything but sleep. No appetite, and as much as I want to sit down and work on the ship, I can't focus to do it.  I think you are right, put the CA away until I can get a respirator mask like painters use with filters in them. In the meantime I will just have to use the PVA and have patience for the drying time.

Just wish I could find something to bring the swelling down in those nasal passages, I think I would feel better, but antihistamines aren't doing a thing for me.

[mtaylor]

Robbyn,

 

Takes time to get over the effects of CA.  Nasty stuff that as it reacts to water and thus moisture in the nose, sinuses and lungs.  Antihistimines only work on things that have "histamines".. CA isn't one of them.  If you find you're short of breath, dizzy, maybe even your color is off.. think bluish, get yourself to the ER immediately.  Meantime, I'll keep my fingers crossed that you're only have an allergic reaction.

[augie]

As Mark stated, hopefully it's just an allergy and will pass.  A lot of folks are sensitive.  I know they make an 'odorless' version but I'm not sure if it makes any difference if you have a sensitivity.

[realworkingsailor]

Another CA casualty... I would stress good airflow... Not just ventilation. I have a ceiling fan that can move a lot of air across my workspace, this helps dissipate any CA fumes. Natural passive ventilation just won't do. As long as your eyes and skin is not affected, you should be ok with just a disposable Niosh "paper" dust mask, and a fan.

 

I'm not sure... But try something with pseudoephedrine in it (Tylenol or Advil cold medecin), it seems to help me "dry up" as it were.

 

Hope you feel better...

 

Andy

[Bedford]

I would stand correction, especially from TMC, but isnt the C in CA based on Cyanide??????

 

This is a substance to be avoided as much as possible.

 

As for you having your own SYREN call, I guess you must, just look at all the sailors who have become shipwrecked in your build thread, there are heaps of us following your every move

 

I assume the small bright shiny thing you mention is some kind of diamond cutting bit for use in making the Syren

 

I hear what you are saying about not starting the rigging again or stressing too much due to colour but I will make this note. I have been aboard Endeavour, Bounty (the Australian one), Duyfken and Batavia and although I can't be sure of the Batavia's ratlines I can tell you the ones on the other three are NOT tarred. I have climbed some of them. They are an expendible and very easily replaced item and there would have been tons of short off cuts of ropes onboard ships sp why bother tarring them. Also if you think about it, sailing in tropical waters with tarred ratlines would have renderred the sailors hands sticky with tar, surely not a good thing.

[Stockholm tar]

Perhaps this might be a good point to bring up the health issues connected with our hobby particularly, as with Robbyn's case, the various glues that we might use and which are readily available these days. It is all too easy to just pick up a bottle of CA or whatever at our local store, without paying too much attention to what it contains, or what possible effects it might have on health. This is very likely one of the last things many think about, whereas it should be one of the first. There is probably also a tendency with some to not even read the label on the bottle, except to find out if it will do the job in mind.

 

I have ME/CFS, which affects the central nervous system. One of the symptoms is a reaction to strong and toxic odours, which often sets off an attack, so I am very wary of glues – especially when bonding wood to metal. A well ventilated area and a mask is a must, and even then I don't leave the bottle open for more than a few minutes, if I can avoid it. However, even following these precautions, I can end up feeling ill and with itchy skin, if not worse. 

 

So, do take precautions whenever possible, also when sanding, to provide a flow of air and wear a proper mask. These precautions are not sissy, they're sensible!

[Salty Sea Dog]

This might also be a good time to mention that sawdust from many of the exotic woods is known to be harmful or irritants. Cocobolo (one of my faves) is known to be toxic and walnut dust irritates my skin. A dust mask when hull sanding should be a habit. You should also remember to not rub your eyes, nose or lips when handling oily exotics like Cocobola and wash your hands afterwards.

 

CA glue gives me headaches too. I used it all the time when I was doing guitar repair and the suggestion about a small fan is a good one. Keeping de-bonder within arms reach is a good idea too. I knew a repairman that had a spill and glued his forearm to his bench and had to wait till his wife came home to reach the de-bonder!

[augie]

I am fortunate in that glues and resins don't seem to have an effect.  But certain wood dust, particularly spruce and pine really get to me.  I see Buck mentioned this possibility.

 

Having worked in, and supervised,  chemistry laboratories for many years I can tell you that you should always know what you are working with and the possible effects to yourself and others in the area.

[lamarvalley]

I hope this morning finds you well Robbyn as we have seen numerous responses as a call to aid for your plight we haven't heard from YOU!

 

I have a tad of knowledge about allergic reactions and one thing is that if you have an allergic reaction your body reacts by producing histamines from mast cells. Allergies are strange in that the body jumps to the defense against a perceived enemy... (i.e.-a peanut is not deadly unless your body sees it as such). Some things have naturally occurring histamines, red wine for instance, and during a full blown reaction the body makes it itself. Histamine increases capillary permeability and thus the swelling. Antihistamines can reverse that to some degree... and unless it is a severe reaction, (see ER) time will lessen the uncomfortable symptoms.

Aside from all the advise of avoidance or protective gear (all good IMO)... one simple non-chemical thing that might prove helpful is simple saline flushes... sterile saline flushed into the nasal passages would help remove the chemical molecules and sooth the membranes. Personally, I hate nasal flushes but damn it, they do work... for me.

[Shazmira]

Good morning everyone. I am feeling better today, at least my head is much less fuzzy. Nose is still swollen and uncomfortable, but I did make up a saline solution and used several drops from an eye dropper. The saline did seem to sooth some of the irritation.

I am just amazed at the reaction I had to the CA. It's not like I was working in an enclosed space, I am in a fairly large open living room area. But, there was no fan running at the time, and I am betting I had my face pretty close to the bits I was working on while I was applying the CA.

Well lesson learned.

Tonight after work, I will get back to work on these shrouds. I found a piece of scrap wood, the portion the bulkheads came out of, and I plan to use it to make my deadeye jig so I can get the proper spacing. I tried a piece of basswood I had, but it was too thin to hold. I know when the shroud lines are attached to the deadeyes they will put quite a bit of strain on the jig, so I need something more solid to tolerate the strain.

[themadchemist]

just a word from themadchemist on CA

 

Yes CA is cyano-acrylate. which is a cyanide derivative. Cyanide is an ion and its form we typically think of in spy movies is HCN (hydrogen cyanide) although common salts are also probable KCN or NaCN (potassium and sodium, BTW the K is for Kalium and the Na for Natrium, Latin). CA is a molecule made with a cyano group so its pretty stable. I dont recommend heating cyano compounds though...

 

The issue is the molecule. The CA molecule is a monomer which polymerizes upon contact with water (amino acids are monomers that form the polymer called protein). As CA has a low flash point it becomes volatilized easily and air borne. Always work in an open area and have a fan blowing across the work area to remove fumes. The problem with CA is that the mucus linings of the eyes and nasal cavities are super moist and cause the fumes to polymerize. These form and set up glue in your sensitive body parts. 

 

FYI, CA is used in forensics in a process called fuming. It works really well in small spaces like a car. Pour a bottle of CA into a soda bottle cap and close in a car. Anywhere there is human fingerprints the CA will be draw and Prints form out of nothing as the CA sticks to the skin oils left behind.

 

The thicker formulas are made by adding silica to the mix.

 

Kester, sorry to hear of the ME/CFS. I too after a tick bite and confirmed lyme and bartonella infection have been cased down that hole called auto-immune disease. ME/CFS/FM or what ever else they want to name it, I personally think its bacterial.... It does cause a huge immune response to lots of things. We completely removed plastic from any food contact when possible as the plasticizers (phthalates) are big time immuno disruptors. NEVER microwave any food with plastic.

[Shazmira]

Very little progress today, spent most of my night grading research papers. However, a bit of forward movement to report.

 

I created a jig to hold my deadeyes at each channel at the same distance. This is the jig with the deadeyes for the shroud lines attached to the jig. I just used the steel wire that came with the kit to attach these to the jig.

 

 

The jig placed behind the deadeyes on the channel. I used the brass nails to hold these where I need them. I figured this would make it more stable to take the strain I will put on the upper deadeyes when the shroud lines are attached.

 

 

First shroud line being pulled around the deadeye. The jig seems to be holding well so far, I am alternating sides so the mast does not get pulled out of position. Using pva to help secure the shroud line to the deadeye itself, and will let that dry overnight and then serve the lines tomorrow.

 

 

I still have a long way to go, but I have time as well. Turns out I am short 2 of the required deadeyes, so I just had to place an order from ME for some replacements. Cost me 3 times as much for the shipping than the $2.30 for the package of deadeyes, go figure!!

 

I am feeling much better tonight, nose is mostly clear now but still a bit swollen and uncomfortable.  I WILL NOT be using any CA indoors anymore!!!

[augie]

Glad you're feeling better!  Jig looks good.

 

Thank you for stimulating the economy with ME.  I've got a similar order coming out here --- I ran out of blocks. 

[gjdale]

Hi Robbyn,

 

Glad to hear you are feeling better.  Your jig looks good - just like EdT's 

[Bedford]

Good to see you back on deck.

 

You know it isn't hard to make dead eyes and blocks, I have had to do a few. Use a stanley knife.

Use a piece of mast dowel and form the dead eye by drilling the three holes into the end of the dowel and sand the end to the convex shape then trim excess diameter off the dowel with a knife ( careful now ) I lay the dowel on the table and press the knife into the dowel parallel to the end and as far in as it needs to be to give the thickness you need. Roll the dowel so the knife cuts a slit around the dowel.

 

Now when you cut into the dowel from the end to reduce the diameter, you just take a little at a time, the blade will stop at the cut if you don't push too hard. When you have the diameter right sand it a bit if needed and then start filing the groove for the shroud or you can also do this by rolling the dowel under a knife although not as easily, rolling the dowel under the knife again, you will find that the knife will work it's way most of the way through the dowel to cut the block from the dowel, you will need to lightly sand the centre of the block but the knife will leave a very smooth finish on the whole.

 

You can make blocks similarly but in that case you drill the holes across the axis of the dowel and form all but one end of the block before cutting it from the dowel with a modelling saw.

 

I realise this is a bit late as you have already ordered replacements but worth keeping in mind for the next time.

 

Steve