Newsworthy updates from Chris Watton

[fnkershner]

Chris - His lordship seems pleased with the inspection and he should be these are nice boats. I am also impressed with the painting of the brass. You are right it does not look metal.

[st george]

Chris, great work on the boats mate. I do like the clinker built cutter. Are the oars photo etched brass?

[chris watton]

Cheers

 

They're OK - but a little rushed, I have to admit. I painted the yellow in Vallejo yellow ochre - it's what I was going to use for all of the model..

 

The oars are photo etched, yes. The thwarts are laser cut in 1mm ply and then painted with Vallejo colours, as are the knees of the thwarts - about as small as you want to go with laser cutting...

 

These are basic frames - I always found that trying to plank the frames without a base a little fiddly..:

 

Edited June 30, 2013 by chris watton

[mtaylor]

Wow... those could be kits by themselves.

[freewheelinguy]

Chris,

 

Absolutely beautiful work.  You got me thinking of repainting the boats on my Billy.  Would you mind giving the Vallejo paint numbers used?  Since your mention of these way back on your Bellona prototype on MSW 1.0, I only purchase these now and am extremely satisfied.  Some of my current build is using the existing paints I have only to use them up.

 

This is one special kit.  I just hope I'm still around once this kit hits the market and will be available to purchase as my current build.

 

Thanks again taking the time to post these updates and sharing your prototype pic and explanations.

[chris watton]

Chris,

 

Absolutely beautiful work.  You got me thinking of repainting the boats on my Billy.  Would you mind giving the Vallejo paint numbers used?  Since your mention of these way back on your Bellona prototype on MSW 1.0, I only purchase these now and am extremely satisfied.  Some of my current build is using the existing paints I have only to use them up.

 

This is one special kit.  I just hope I'm still around once this kit hits the market and will be available to purchase as my current build.

 

Thanks again taking the time to post these updates and sharing your prototype pic and explanations.

Thank you, Len . This one's taken me so long that I wonder if I'll be around to finish it, too!

 

The paints for the boats were as follows:

 

(Vallejo)

 

White spray primer

 

121 - Yellow ochre

004 - Off-White

169 - Black

 

For the wood simulation:

147 - Leather Brown (could be any shade shade of brown, to be honest)

183 - Wood grain (Transp) (This is the paint that makes the difference)

204 - Brown glaze - Helps give the 'wood' a 'heavier' and more natural appearance.

 

Black glaze is also useful to add an extra dimension to some of the black painted parts - especially cannon barrels and belfry.

 

I must remember to add the fore topsail brace rope to the belaying pins on the skid beams before adding the boats permanently..

 

 

 

For wood colours, no special techniques were used, just trial and error - and the above were what seemed to be the best combination for scale appearance

[Blue Ensign]

That's a fine set of boats Chris, well done.

B.E.

[Ulises Victoria]

OMG! I never thought I would want to build another Victory (built the 1/100 Heller in the early 1990's), but seeing this kit in progress, makes me drool over it.

[chris watton]

OMG! I never thought I would want to build another Victory (built the 1/100 Heller in the early 1990's), but seeing this kit in progress, makes me drool over it.

Thank you!

 

And if it's any consolation, I too have made quite a few of these in the past, and wasn't too enamoured at having to develop yet another one. Have to say though, I have thoroughly enjoyed doing this one thus far. 

[garyshipwright]

Hi Chris.

I usually don't think to much about kits but between you and Chuck,do believe you guys have it covered. I must say you have done one outstanding job on this kit and who knows even I just might have to get one in the future. Do have a question for you and it is about the small deck in front of the beakhead bulkhead. You Victory doesn't show this small platform and wonder why you didn't do the raised platform and what research you used that convince you not to add it. For me I don't believe she had the raised platform until she was redone in 1922 to return her to what she looked like in 1805. Just wondering sir and really have enjoyed going through your build log of her.

Gary

[Ulises Victoria]

Mr. Watton:

One thing I am curious about this kit, is what kind of rigging fittings it will have. I hope they don't spoil it by putting those ugly square one holed blocks that normally come in kits. I purchased some  very expensive blocks and deadeyes from Jerzy at JBModel.eu for my Vasa. I would expect those in this kit to be of similar quality. I prefer to pay for those along with the price of the kit, instead of having to get them from third party suppliers.

My best wishes and admiration to you. You are doing an outstanding job here, dear Sir!

Edited July 3, 2013 by Ulises Victoria

[Nirvana]

Chris,

I just opened up your build log of Victory and did it on page 3,

Loved the open hull feature on the page.

Then I started to think, wonder if you ever would make this kit as a pob/pof?

Having one side open exposing all the interior? Like what AL did with Bounty?

Victory is a fantastic ship all to be shown in all her glory.

 

This build log of yours is amazing, and from now on following the last part of it.

Very nice building!

[chris watton]

Hi Chris.

I usually don't think to much about kits but between you and Chuck,do believe you guys have it covered. I must say you have done one outstanding job on this kit and who knows even I just might have to get one in the future. Do have a question for you and it is about the small deck in front of the beakhead bulkhead. You Victory doesn't show this small platform and wonder why you didn't do the raised platform and what research you used that convince you not to add it. For me I don't believe she had the raised platform until she was redone in 1922 to return her to what she looked like in 1805. Just wondering sir and really have enjoyed going through your build log of her.

Gary

Thank you for your kind words, they are much appreciated. I designed a 72nd scale Victory in 2001, and I certainly didn't want to do the same thing again regarding the usual and fairly simple designs - and I figured what would be the point in spending time developing such a hackneyed subject if when released, it's just the same as all the rest - why chose this over others?. I had to be sure that, after spending so much development time and Amati's money, even people who are sick to the back teeth of Victory kits (me included) would think twice about this one.

 

Regarding the bow platform, I think I explained that in an earlier post. My primary sources for the main designs were/are the original plans from the NMM, John McKay's Anatomy book of Victory and Alan McGowan's HMS Victory: Her Construction, Career and Restoration. All three show the bow platform at upper gun deck level, although I am fully aware that Bulger, Longridge and the Victory herself show the raised platform. I have researched this area more than any other, and I still don't know which is correct.

With this in mind, I had to think what would be easier for the modeller to change, if he/she wanted to changed the height? I concluded that It is much easier, even for relative novices to add the extra height than lower the deck.

 

Mr. Watton:

One thing I am curious about this kit, is what kind of rigging fittings it will have. I hope they don't spoil it by putting those ugly square one holed blocks that normally come in kits. I purchased some  very expensive blocks and deadeyes from Jerzy at JBModel.eu for my Vasa. I would expect those in this kit to be of similar quality. I prefer to pay for those along with the price of the kit, instead of having to get them from third party suppliers.

My best wishes and admiration to you. You are doing an outstanding job here, dear Sir!

Thank you. Unfortunately, this is a commercial kit and cost of parts does have to play a part. I would prefer the Jerzy/Chuck type blocks as I feel this kit deserves them. However, although we did that for Mercury, there are so many blocks for Victory that they would add at least another £200 to the cost of the kit - that would be commercial suicide, as the kit will be quite expensive anyway. Plus, we are not sure whether the outside sources who manufacture them would be able to make enough (initial kit runs are 500-1000 kits - having all of the parts for every kit is vitally important)

 

This, unfortunately is one of the compromises we have to make for commercial kits - most will not care about the blocks, but people like me and you do - but we are in a small minority. For everything else that I has a personal control over, I do try and make sure the parts are as accurate as they can be, though - I have even turned new belaying pins (the fat 'hour glass'-shaped ones would have looked entirely out of place) as well as the cannon barrels. There are very few 'off the shelf' fittings with this kit - ladders and the ship's bell is all that's used for the hull, I think. The rest is bespoke.

 

There will be a full set of sail plans and sail material for those who like to add them....

 

I will ask if the proper blocks can be added as an optional extra, though - this may be the best compromise. Even perhaps 'Special Edition' kits in fewer numbers with the blocks!

 

Chris,

I just opened up your build log of Victory and did it on page 3,

Loved the open hull feature on the page.

Then I started to think, wonder if you ever would make this kit as a pob/pof?

Having one side open exposing all the interior? Like what AL did with Bounty?

Victory is a fantastic ship all to be shown in all her glory.

 

This build log of yours is amazing, and from now on following the last part of it.

Very nice building!

Thank you!

 

You could leave one side open, yes, or just parts of the side left open.

 

I am about to start on the mast now - pretty boring stuff..

 

Chris

[Nirvana]

Hmm. wonder if we can see a joint venture of Chris Watton and Chuck Passaro

 

Cheers

 

. The thwarts are laser cut in 1mm ply and then painted with Vallejo colours, as are the knees of the thwarts - about as small as you want to go with laser cutting...

 

 

Chris,

You mentioned Vallejo colors, are you referring to Boris Vallejo the amazing paint artist?

Edited July 3, 2013 by Nirvana

[Kevin]

Chris,

You mentioned Vallejo colors, are you referring to Boris Vallejo the amazing paint artist?

 

 

http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/model-color/family/15

Edited July 3, 2013 by Kevin

[aferox]

This is an amazing model; I am in awe!  I think the "special edition" kit might be an interesting option, since it helps differentiate this Victory from all others.  If I were to buy the kit, then adding some extra money to get the ultimate would make sense to me.

 

Alas, I'm unlikely to get another Victory, since I already have one partially completed.  I know my admiral, and if I were to suggest getting another Victory, then she would be asking what I'm going to do with the first... Somehow, justifying a new, different ship is a lot easier!  Still, there is tremendous pleasure in just watching this come together.

 

I would love to see this treatment given to something new, like Lenox or Suffolk or Resolution or Zeven Provincien.  Perhaps someday?

[chris watton]

You could buy the kit, and cross out the 'Victory' and write 'HMS Temeraire' underneath - she'll never know!

 

The Vallejo paints are water based and produced in Spain, I think. If you're painting large areas, they need to be airbrushed, as acrylics don't seem to be as forgiving as enamels. For smaller parts they are great, though.

[Kevin]

This is an amazing model; I am in awe!  I think the "special edition" kit might be an interesting option, since it helps differentiate this Victory from all others.  If I were to buy the kit, then adding some extra money to get the ultimate would make sense to me.

 

Alas, I'm unlikely to get another Victory, since I already have one partially completed.  I know my admiral, and if I were to suggest getting another Victory, then she would be asking what I'm going to do with the first... Somehow, justifying a new, different ship is a lot easier!  Still, there is tremendous pleasure in just watching this come together.

 

I would love to see this treatment given to something new, like Lenox or Suffolk or Resolution or Zeven Provincien.  Perhaps someday?

but as stated that's unlikely to happen due to the time and energy required and possibly limited sales - unfortunately ships have to be famous and known to everyone to have this treatment- such a shame to fact of life

[Ulises Victoria]

Hmm. wonder if we can see a joint venture of Chris Watton and Chuck Passaro

 

Chris,

You mentioned Vallejo colors, are you referring to Boris Vallejo the amazing paint artist?

No... Boris Vallejo is an outstanding Fantasy artist, but the Vallejo paints Mr. Watton refers to, is a well known brand of Acrylic paints, widely used among modelers of all kinds. Hope this helps.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Ulises Victoria

[Nirvana]

First time I heard about that brand. Going to give it a shot. Unfortunate only available on-line not in any local hobby store.

[Jon B]

Chris

 

I am a very new member of Model Ship World but have been following with great interest your development of the Victory in 1/64 scale. This is certainly the most superb kit I have seen. Whilst I completed a 1/78 scale Victory at around the time of the 200th anniversary of Trafalgar I will certainly be buying this 1/64 scale version and start all over again!. Currently I am building HMS Diana with the standing rigging underway with my next project being HMS Agamemnon. Snake and Cruiser are also sitting under my work bench All of course in 1/64 scale. It will be great to have a 1/64 Victory to join them and who knows one day a 1/64 74. I would also be prepared to pay more for better blocks than those usually provided in kits.

 

Jon B

[dafi]

Hello Chris,

 

wonderful kit and thanks for explaining. I know the problem in between being historically correct and the people comparing to todays Vic pictures: Where are the plumes???

 

...

 

As I also often looked at this model, I found many "odd" features about it, especially the in the bow section. Do you have any ideas/hints/proves to where this model came from? Was it "as repaired", was it a pure study or "as planned"?

 

There are several models in NMM all to be around the same time and all off them being completely different ...

 

Also interesting to see the stern on pictures of about 1880/1900

 

Best regards, Daniel

Edited July 6, 2013 by dafi

[chris watton]

Hello Chris,

 

wonderful kit and thanks for explaining. I know the problem in between being historically correct and the people comparing to todays Vic pictures: Where are the plumes???

 

...

 

As I also often looked at this model, I found many "odd" features about it, especially the in the bow section. Do you have any ideas/hints/proves to where this model came from? Was it "as repaired", was it a pure study or "as planned"?

 

There are several models in NMM all to be around the same time and all off them being completely different ...

 

Also interesting to see the stern on pictures of about 1880/1900

 

Best regards, Daniel

Hi Daniel,

 

Thank you!

 

I am not sure at all regarding the history of that particular model (I assume you mean the one with one too many gun ports on the quarterdeck and the odd stern)?

 

Perhaps it was a model made by a builder and submitted to the Admiralty for approval, for how she should look after the 'great repair', I don't know. I do know that when studying both models and paintings can throw up massive discrepancies between them. Prince for example. The beautiful model in the Science Museum is definitely of Prince, but when looking at the Van De Velde drawings (These are almost as good as photographs for the Restoration period, IMOHO), they show a small open stern gallery on the real thing, and this seems quite consistent with other contemporary drawings, and some paintings - but it is not there on the actual model. I assume it was added during the build and after the model was made.

 

For Victory, being 'only' a couple of hundred years old since the rebuild, you'd have thought there would be pliantly of correlating material relating to how she looked - but this hasn't been the case, I have found...

 

Chris

[chris watton]

Have started on the masts while I wait for the new poop parts. Initially, I tried to rush this as I went into auto-pilot - and made some stupid mistakes (bowsprit gammoning cleats in the wrong place due to me not pushing the bowsprit in right to the end - so had to remove and start over - no extended cheeks on the mizzen, when it clearly has them - what an idiot!). I decided to slow down and complete the mast plans before going any further, which I have now done.

 

The lower mast are almost complete and have been primed:

 

(My wife is re-decorating around me!)

 

I did make sure I had laser cut mast and yard cleats in various shapes and sizes - saves a little time... (Pity I couldn't have had the gammoning cleats laser cut...)

 

And that's where I am right now - I spent all of yesterday (Sunday, in the sweltering heat) turning the upper masts.

[Jaxboat]

Great Stuff!

LOL about your spouse redecorating around you  .    As I always say: we all have to answer to a higher authority!

Now for a serious question: how do you decide which parts should be laser cut?

Best

Jaxboat

[chris watton]

Great Stuff!

LOL about your spouse redecorating around you  .    As I always say: we all have to answer to a higher authority!

Now for a serious question: how do you decide which parts should be laser cut?

Best

Jaxboat

LOL, Cheers

 

I will have anything laser cut or photo etched I can possibly think of to make my, and the modeller's life as simple as it can be. Essentially, anything I can get away with. (I had a good moan about the tab positions on my prototype parts - been a nightmare releasing some of the parts..)

 

I do wish we could find a company to make the masts and yards pre-shaped, as you really do need a lathe to make them properly..

Edited July 8, 2013 by chris watton

[ccoyle]

Chris,

 

You have about 10 degrees C to go before you match the local definition of 'sweltering'.    Your Vic is looking great!

[chris watton]

Chris,

 

You have about 10 degrees C to go before you match the local definition of 'sweltering'.    Your Vic is looking great!

LOL, but for us Brits, I felt I was in the process of photosynthesis it has been so bright! Three days of hot weather so far this year - things are looking up...!

Edited July 8, 2013 by chris watton

[Kevin]

Chris - i have just checked the weather - snow by thursday

[chris watton]

OK, Just tried to take some pics outside, as it's so sunny (still!). I have completed the mast assemblies (less blocks), and it has definitely taken over our large dining room table. With the bowsprit in place, it is near to 1.5 metres in length, going up to 1.6 when the mizzen gaff/boom is in place. Not the easiest thing to manoeuvre...

 

 

The poop deck is not yet fixed in place, only dry-fitted so not sitting fully into position. The flag lockers are a combination of 0.4mm photo etched parts for the flag compartments and 0.8mm ply for the outer shell. I see flag lockers on other kits and they always look way too thick - even in 0.4mm they are slightly oversize! They will also sit lower once the poop is finally glued down, giving enough room the cleats above, which are fixed to the inner stern board.

The skylight is 0.8 plywood and looks quite good, scale-wise, with the window frames being very thin.

 

 

I realised another advantage of the MDF frames - because of the very low tolerances I can design into the structure, the masts and bowsprit fit perfectly and are exactly 90 degrees to the keel when looking fore or aft. 

 

ETA - When it is sitting on our dining table, the main topmast cross trees are at eye level!

Edited July 12, 2013 by chris watton