Coppering - Plates vs. Tape?

[glbarlow]

Any thoughts on copper plates vs copper tape on hulls?  I'm finding copper plating my HMS Vanguard going very slowly and not especially exciting.  While I'm sure everyone would say the plates are more accurate and show better, I'm considering plating one side and taping the other.  It will be displayed in such a way only one side can be seen, so that's not an issue. 

 

Part of my question is how well the tape conforms to the curves and bends of the hull (without kinking), how well it adheres, and how easy and fast it goes on compared the the tedious work of the individaul plates? Does using a ponce wheel come help (the Vanguard plates are only  embossed, not actually engraved)?

 

I realize this is copping out to a large degree, but its not a part of the process I enjoy, I want to make it back to the wood and decks sometime before I get old

[dgbot]

Coptoper tape is a thin foil.  It is used in the stained glass industry all the time.  It conforms  to the hull nicely.  Many modlers prefer it because it is easy to work with.  If you wish to fully simulate indiviual plates you then score it.

David B

[Mirabell61]

Glenn

 

I have made quite good experience in using copper-tape as David is describing, and using a poncewheel as you mentioned, and it conforms to the hulls curves very well. If you do the copper stripes in a way of e.g. 4 or 5 "resembled plates" at a time. (length of stripes) you should be finished before you are old.

And a Major Advantage is you are not Messing around with CA, ruining your fingertips...., because of well sticking tape instead.

The ponced copper surface can be flattend off a bit afterwards, before the tape strips are put on.

Have a look below and see what I mean

 

Nils

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2014 by Mirabell61

[overdale]

That's a really good result Nils. The slightly irregular nail patterns and the thinness of the tape make it look very realistic.

 

I have a project that will suit perfectly. Where did you get the pouncewheel from?

[Mirabell61]

Daniel,

 

the poncewheel is selfmade from an old toothwheel from a mantel-clockwork and the handle of an old Paintbrush.

If you like, you can refer to my buildlogfor

for my steamship Heinrich Kayser at the end of part 2 therein (Topic: scratch built models in Progress)

 

Trust that helps along, otherwise feel free to come through again, I`ll be glad to help

 

Nils

[BareHook]

Do you do any prep or sealing on the planks before applying the copper tape? Or does it adhere well to the wood?

 

Ken

[fnkershner]

I think there are actually 3 solutions possible here -

 

1. Use the commercially available plates that come with the model

2. Make your own plates from the tape

3. Use strips of tape and simulate the separate plates.

 

My Impression is that the major difference is that you cannot overlap the plate with #3 above. Comments?

[bogeygolpher]

Floyd,

 

I have used strips for two models and they are thin enough that you can overlap them.  

 

If doing that. you want to leave one of the edges (top or bottom) smooth so you won't have rivets on rivets when applied. I personally did not like the look  because I was not able to overlap the plate beside as those seams are simulated except at the ends of the tape run..

 

Another thing is I have found it easier to use strips no longer than about four plates long. Any longer than that and it became unruly and hard to manage on the curves.  I like the look and as is pointed out it obviates the need for using CA which I try to minimize at all costs.  That's not a purist reference, just my discomfort working with it.  Further, the adhesive on the tape is quite good but one needs to be careful at the edges of  the hull as any mishaps might pull the tape away.  To prevent that, I did use a small bit of CA along the outside edges.

 

Which ever method one chooses make sure you get a protective coating on as soon as possible unless you want the tarnished look.

[usedtosail]

I have used copper tape to good results. For preparation, I give the hull a coat of primer and a good final sanding afterwards. I cut a length of tape, then score the individual plates, so that I am applying them one plate at a time. This way I can overlap the ends as well as the sides. The trick is to just score the copper, not cut through the paper, so you can remove each plate with tweezers from the long strip. I have not tried using a ponce wheel to simulate the nails, but I am going to try that on my current build.

[augie]

Ponce wheels are available from a place like Micro Mark.  They come in various tooth/inch sizes.  If you intend to use the tape there is an excellent tutorial right here on MSW by Gene Bodnar under framing and planking..... Copper Sheathing a Hull.

[fnkershner]

Augie - How did a fly boy get to be such an expert ship builder?

[Mirabell61]

Do you do any prep or sealing on the planks before applying the copper tape? Or does it adhere well to the wood?

 

Ken

Ken

 

my experience is :

sand the planking to smooth and step free condition

sweep off the dust with a brush thorrowly and also by using a clean Cloth

apply 2 coats of nitro based clear Wood primer, (Nitro Einlassgrund)that drys within 3 minutes leaving a dull smooth shiny but dense Wood surface. No sanding afterwards !!! That is the best surface base for applying the tape

 

Nils

[maurino]

I am very happy with the self-adhesive copper tape. My Fisching schooner is done with this method and the result satisfies me.
Mauro

[WackoWolf]

Floyd,

 

   Whats wrong with being a Flyboy? LOL. You must have been a Marine LOL. I just couldn't let that go by, no disrespect to the Marines or any other Military person, just had to put my 2 cents in.
 

USAF 72-76

Edited February 25, 2014 by WackoWolf

[Mirabell61]

Question regarding copper plates.  The models I have seen don't seem to overlap the plates. Is there a reason behind this or am I just not looking are the pictures hard enough? 

 

I also saw that someone mentioned using a hot glue gun to attach the plates.  I am finishing up my Phantom Pilot boat and am thinking of using plates. 

 

Although I did find some copper tape that was 1/8" wide and was a lot easier to cut into 1/4" lengths then cutting the supplied 1/4" wide tape into 1/8" wide plates.  I was able to borrow the Admirals scrapbooking cutting wheel and plastic square to speed things up a lot.  I will have to post a picture because it really did speed things along.

Bart,

 

when using this self adhesive copper tape and the poncewheel method, of course the ponced, plate resembling strip lengths are each overlapping the edge of the last one below and the one horizontaly placed before.

The strips are only ponced in two outer lines, the other two get their poncing from the next Strip wich covers (by overlapping ) in the appropriate positions.

The overlapping is not so easy when you use machine prefabricated platings

 

Hope this ia understandable

 

Nils

[fabius.b]

Hi shipmates,
I finished today to coppering my Connie with copper-tape. I used a poncewheel in the rear face of the tape, to relief the heads of the rivets.
Now the problem is to make old the copper.

I tried with 30% hydrochloric acid only, with ammonia only, hydrogen peroxide, and sodium hypochlorite

Best results is using first a cotton swab with 30% hydrochloric acid, followed by a second swab with ammonia.

The contact time of the acid -swab must be short, otherwise it corrodes the copper. (first test upward)

Immediately after you have to put ammonia with another cotton swab.

I did several tests (as in the photo) and it can get a nice blue-green shades....

During tests, I've seen smoke after the contact between acid and ammonia. Don't breathe it, because it is toxic.

 

Edited March 8, 2014 by fabius.b

[Mirabell61]

Hi Fabius,

 

Looks like greater experimental toxic mixes you are composing. I can firmly feel the toxic vapours coming in my nose as I read your lines. But it Looks great.

Trust you shall be using all necessary protection measures for your health and safety.

The more I read and see about oxidizing the copper the more I am thinking about doing so on my Pegasus hull as well. It provides that nice dry dock hull apeal after serving several years in the salty ocean

 

Nils

[fabius.b]

The most interesting thing is that if you make a mistake or do not like, you can always go back the cotton swab with the acid and start over.

I protect my eyes and my face with a mask, and try it outdoor 

Edited March 8, 2014 by fabius.b

[dgbot]

A safer method is to use selinic acid or vinegar.  It will take longer but is a bit safer and more healthy for you.

David B

[fabius.b]

What is selinic acid?  I must try with vinegar, before other method

Consider that using  30% hydrochloric acid and ammonia is fast and safe, if you use it outdoor, and protected by a mask.

You don't have to put your face over and it is not explosive.

Edited March 8, 2014 by fabius.b

[dgbot]

Selinic acid ia a mild acid used to remove dead skin.  Such as Dr. Scholls wart and callus remover.

It may take a little longer but you do not need a mask

David B

[capnharv2]

You do know that the smoke you see from mixing HCL and NH3 will produce Chlorine gas

 

As Elmer Fudd  would say

“BE VE-W-W-WY, VE-W-W-WY CAREFUL”

[guillemot]

On the subject of weathering copper, I remember reading somewhere an eye witness description of the fleet heeled over, sailing down the channel into a low sun. The writer remarked on the glitter from the copper. Apparently when at sea, unless on the dreaded blockade, the motion of salt water on the coppering kept it shiny.

F

[Landlubber Mike]

Does the vinegar make your build smell?  Does it go away over time?

[dgbot]

After a couple of days I would take a damp rag and wipe it down.

David B

[amateur maker]

I have plated my model of USS Constitution with copper foil, overlapping the small plates. It came out very nice, but is a bit fragile and is starting to lift in some places as I continue my build. I need to secure these plates so they are less fragile. I see mention of using CA to seal the edges. Could you advise me how to apply? Will a Q-tip damp with ca and capillary action allow enough to seal these lifting plates? I already used CA to attach brass strips over the copper for the rudder. Thank you for your help.

[usedtosail]

A small piece of wire works well as an applicator for CA

[bartley]

On 3/9/2014 at 4:20 AM, dgbot said:

Selinic acid ia a mild acid used to remove dead skin.  Such as Dr. Scholls wart and callus remover.

It may take a little longer but you do not need a mask

David B

Dgbot,

 

I think you might have a nomenclature problem here.   I think what you mean is salicylic acid.  By "Selinic acid" I think you mean selenic acid which is a more oxidized form of the selenium dioxide (or selenious acid) which we use to blacken brass.  Both of these chemicals are quite toxic but salicylic acid is relatively harmless.

 

John

[Nirvana]

Found this DIY for oxidizing copper.

[bruce d]

8 hours ago, Nirvana said:

Found this DIY for oxidizing copper.

Perfect.