Louie da fly

More news on the Tallin ship(s) https://news.err.ee/116222/medieval-ships-discovered-in-tallinn-are-rare-well-preserved-cogs

Good to see her back under way again. Very nice work. Steven

Thanks everybody for the likes and supportive comments (very welcome under the current circumstances, when I've been seriously considering throwing the rotten thing against the wall and taking up croquet instead ). Snug Harbor Johnny and Druxey, unfortunately the bitts coming away was a fault on the part of my "current" self - I already knew from previous models that butt-joints are a bad idea but I wanted to keep the original bitts that I'd made back in the day and didn't think about the forces they'd be subjected to. Or if I did, I thought "she'll be right". But unfortunately though we learn from our mistakes, sometimes the lessons don't stick straight away - we have to make the same mistakes again before those lessons really sink in. Roger, you have a point. However, the Great Harry is somewhat later, and while I'm mainly working off the reconstruction picture in Landström's book The Ship, more importantly, the original representation in the Anthony Roll shows ratlines in the topgallant shrouds. And the "feathery" ratlines were mainly the fault of my own carelessness in cutting off the ends cleanly. I still haven't quite finished the foremast rigging - there are a couple of things to do on the topgallant - braces and bowlines - and I'll have to belay again the ropes that were fixed to the old bitts. (BTW, I've decided that for the mainmast I won't be re-using the original bitts - I'll be making new ones with "pins" carved into the bottom of the uprights - once bitten, twice shy). Steven

It's been a while since the last update. Mostly sails and rigging for the foremast - I thought I'd be on the mainmast by now, but it's been going very slowly. Quite a lot of fiddly work, but not much dramatic to see where I've been. I had to replace the fore-topgallant shrouds - they were looking particularly tacky, the ratlines had gone "feathery" at the ends. Fore topsail braces Adding the new topgallant shrouds. I'd discovered the main topgallant had bent both forwards and sideways, so I had to remove the stay (which had gone loose), bend the topgallant mast straight with my trusty soldering iron and put in a temporary rope holding the fore and main topgallants taut so a new stay could be added. Adding blocks to the fore topsail stay for the forecourse bowlines to run through And the corresponding blocks on the bowsprit. Combined fore topsail sheets/forecourse lifts Fore topgallant stay added while temporary rope makes sure it will be taut. Forecourse bowlines in place Topgallant lifts, clewlines and sundry blocks. I've also glued the parrel truck to the mast, with a (non-historic) small wedge to hold it in place. Overall view And then - disaster! The topsail yard broke - possibly at an earlier mend. So after a lot of soul-searching I decided to cut away the robands and fish the yard (shouldn't be all that obvious when it's fixed. Fish being cut to shape: Yard glued back together And fish glued in place Robands replaced, along with the blocks for the sheet and brace. And then another disaster - the bitts which were just end-glued to the deck, lifted off under the force of all the lines that were belayed to it. I tried gluing it back on with a sort of spacer (made of balsa) to hold it in place: No good at all. Just messed up the foredeck and the bitts came loose again immediately. I decided I had no option but to remove all the ropes that were belayed to the bitts and make a new set, this time with "pins" carved into the ends, to fit into holes in the deck. All very well, but there was no way I could get a drill into that confined space. I ended up drilling them by hand with the pointy end of a fine file, and an awl. VERY fiddly and time consuming. Unfortunately I did't take photos of the new bitts and the holes in the deck, but here they are glued in place. I'm just hoping they'll stay this time. But this time I've added a new couple of side-rails that will take quite a few of the ropes that were belayed to the previous bitts. That should reduce the force on the join with the deck. Unfortunately there's a bit of shine from the (CA) glue, which I can't do much about. Steven

Interesting idea about paddling, but contemporary representations on pottery show this type of ship was rowed, not paddled. Thebes vase (krater) - 735-720 BC. Dipylon vase (approx 750 BC) Steven

It's been a while since I've looked at this log. You're really powering ahead! Steven

I have made them out of brass (posts #969 and #1000, but I find wood is much easier to work with. Steven

Beautiful - just beautiful. Steven

I made mine out of wood and they worked quite well. See posts #322 and #325 at I carved them out of pear wood, and used garden tie-wire for the rings. Steven

Beautiful work, Patrick. I'm just struggling through this step with my own model - so many ropes! Steven

I've been following this discussion with interest but without feeling sufficiently qualified to make any suggestions. I'm glad you've come up with a solution you're happy with, and that doesn't require pulling everything apart and starting again. Steven

Yes, but don't hold your breath. It usually takes years before the archaeological report is completed . . . Steven

Couldn't agree more! Steven

You might be interested in the build log of a Maori "Waka" (dug-out war canoe) at https://modelshipworld.com/topic/16639-waka-maori-war-canoe-by-john-allen-124-finished/#comment-516441 It references a very informative book on them which contains a discussion of techniques used by the Maoris to build these surprisingly sophisticated vessels. Steven

https://petapixel.com/2022/07/21/sunken-medieval-boat-is-englands-oldest-ever-shipwreck/?fbclid=IwAR2pFJTcpnptoFjyONnmp1jyHw987M5JVROV3hjW2vFHxDROGXXy6KSsCRQ Looking forward to finding out more about this one. It's been dated to 1242-1265 - a little before my Winchelsea nef. I'll be interested to see how much of the hull they have recovered, and what it tells us about British ships of this period. Steven

G'day, Farmer. What part of Oz are you living in? Depending on the State there are various resources available. I can't help with the kits - I do scratch builds, so I don't know what kits are best/worst. But so long as you keep at it, you should be able to get through them (keeping in mind that everybody makes mistakes, so don't get discouraged by them, and wood is a very forgiving medium - you can often fix the mistakes). And welcome to the wonderful world of ship modelling. Steven

Magnificent work, George. I'm very impressed. Steven

Wonderful work, George! I'm looking forward to seeing more. By the way, where in Istanbul is the Naval Museum? I've been to the military Museum and the Archaeological Museum, but I didn't know there was a naval one as well. Steven

And some more rigging for the fore course and topsail. Bowlines and their belaying points - cleats on the central bulkhead of the forecastle A clearer view of the forecourse braces and their belaying points. Curving the fore topgallant - the boltropes are simply glued on with PVA (white) glue and wetting the edges of the sail enables it to be curved around the barrel of a pen. The six blocks for the fore topsail braces are now complete. Steven

These ones are (approx) 2mm x 1.5mm. Just within my capabilities . . . Steven

I haven't posted for a while - not because I haven't been doing anything, but because the progress wouldn't have been terribly obvious in a photograph. Finally there's been enough progress to post photos for the forecourse and fore topsail rigging. These are in the sequence I worked on the various bits of rigging - having now completed, there are several things I would have done in a different order (access with tweezers, taut ropes going slack as the next one went on, things like that). First the martnets - these were superseded by leechlines about the middle of the 17th century, but this appears to be how the leeches of the sails were furled in 1545. The martnets go both sides of the sail. There's a deadeye for each set of six - a line goes through each of the three holes in the deadeye and each and each end of the line is fixed to a cringle at the leech of the sail. First the deadeye with the three lines going through it, then threaded loosely through the leech (too small for cringles!). The little clothes pegs are acting as weights for other ropes that are in place but not finalised. Fake cringles - just went through the fabric with a needle and looped the thread around the edge and back through the hole. This is one of the things I will change - adding other ropes interfered with the tension of the martnets. When I do the mainsail I'll leave them unfinished till a lot of other stuff is done, and only fix the ends right at the last minute. Rear martnets in place. Adding braces. They go from the mainstay to blocks on pendants from the yardarms, and thence back to a pair of blocks attached to the stay and down to deck level. I've belayed them to the side rails. Cleats to belay the foresail lifts and (I think) topsail sheets - it's awhile ago, and there are so many ropes. Note the size of the cleats compared to my enormous match stick. And the second photo shows more ropes (sorry, can't remember which ones!) belayed to the bitts. Making blocks out of pearwood. They are gradually getting more and more like real blocks (even down to the groove for the strop) , but they're pretty tiny, so detail suffers. As it turned out, they were still too big, so unfortunately I had to cut them down further and lost even more detail. They also keep splitting and having to be glued back together before they can be put to use. And in almost all cases I have to re-drill the holes - they seem to close up as I put the strops on and the thread won't go through. If I remember, I re-drill them before I put them into place - it's very annoying and difficult to drill them out with my big heavy power drill once they're in position on the ship. (Yes I know, there are better drills to use, but I've not got that sorted). So here's a bunch of them ready to go. Foresail lifts and topsail clewlines, and blocks for various other things - the ones at the middle of the yard are for the buntlines (fortunately the topsails don't have martnets). Fore topsail lifts and clewlines belayed to the top. Next to do the topsail braces - the same as the braces for the course, but they have an extra pair of blocks - one pair at the topmast stay, another pair at the foremast stay and one for each pendant - so I have to make six of the rotten things for one pair of ropes! Here they are at various stages of completion. VERY slow progress - mostly because of having to make so many blocks. They're just within my skill level, and so I feel honour bound to make them myself. And anyway I don't think you can buy them that small. Steven

Krisan, I agree there's no need for you to get a kit. You can work with what you have. I started making ship models when I was in grade school - there were some pretty good plastic models available cheap in those days (affordable out of my pocket money), but I made two wooden models before I was old enough for high school, cut out of solid hunks of wood - both square rigged sailing ships, one with two masts, one with three. I was a sailing ship fanatic, and I had several picture books which I used as a basis. The sails were made out of art paper and the rigging was sewing cotton. I was lucky - my Dad was very supportive and he had a pretty well supplied workshop, but I mostly did it with simple hand tools - you really don't need very much to produce a good result. Looking back on them, they were a bit rough and ready, but I was very proud of them - and even today, at the age of 72, I'm still proud of what I achieved back then. So go for it. The members here will be very helpful - ask as many questions as you like - and (most important) enjoy yourself. Best wishes, Steven

Nice work, mate. A little birdie tells me your next one is to be the Niña or the Piñata. (Yes, I know I've posted this somewhere else . . .) Steven

I'm going to have to make one of these! Steven

Hi Shane, What can I say but WOW - just WOW! Your model looks to have been made around the turn of the 20th century. It's of a kind of ship usually known as a pre-Dreadnought. It's not an accurate model, but it's a real collector's item. It does look a little like the Prince George; it's certainly nothing like the King George V. It obviously needs (gentle!) cleaning, and repair. If you put the word "restoration" or "restoring" in the search bar (top right of this page) you'll find some old neglected models which have been cleaned up and restored to their former glory. I believe this one deserves the same treatment. If you're considering restoring this beautiful and historic model, a log posted in Build Logs for Scratch Projects with the tag "restoration" added would be appropriate. There'll be a lot of people on MSW fascinated by this model. It's a real find! Steven