Ian_Grant
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Bill, you're giving me nightmares by having me re-read my crumbling Victory instructions 🤪. Sorry I don't know what this refers to either. I made zero use of their "Table of Threads" as I rigged by a book. In any case, I believe the breeching rope was 6-3/4" on an upper deck 12 pounder which translates pretty close to 0.5mm DIA thread. The gun tackles on a 12 pounder were 2-1/2" which translates to 0.2mm. I think I used 0.25mm as 0.1 looked flimsy. With care, 0.25mm can be rigged through Syren 2mm wood blocks. And this reminds me: Many modellers, including me, filed off the "flash" on the gun pommels only to later realize that the "flash" was meant to represent the breeching ring. Popular consensus was to file off the flash and add breeching rings using small eyelets, at least for the show guns. -
Query: How do I click in Daniel's message above to read more about these Turner drawings? No matter where I click I end up at post #1 with the sun burning? Too many pages to scroll through........ Sounds like my Vic might be out of date now after only a few years - no pink in the bee lines and no solid bulwarks 😒
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Bill, you could do that but Evergreen does make sizes close to what you need. https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-white-polystrene-strips/products/122-020-x-040 and to save you the trouble of gluing three rows on the bottom: https://evergreenscalemodels.com/collections/14-white-polystrene-strips/products/126-020-x-125 Might be worth looking around for.
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I finished the chess table and even got a little work done on Preussen. I discovered the danger of being away from a model for a while. I was adding the futtock bars at the crosstrees and while working on the fourth mast I realized I was using the wrong two holes in the crosstrees.....what was I thinking?! I had to cut them all off and do again, wasting some precious micro tubing and eyes. Here is one of the masts, with primer on the topgallant shroud "screws": I will now start working on the test jig and program for a galley rowing mechanism. For those who may be interested, here is the completed chess table: The drawers were sized to accommodate the red flocked chess men holders from the original packaging. The field squares are 2-1/4" to suit the rather large men (and woman). The small lower trim was a bit fiddly round the legs, but it gave me an excuse to add a 23ga pinner to my tools ; my 18ga nailer would have made a mess of it. The chess set is a replica of the "Isle of Lewis" set as seen in the British Museum.
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O.C. has it nearly right. Daniel wants you to increase the width of the top wale (runs along the hull below the main deck gun ports), by adding a single 1mmx0.4mm strip along its top edge, and three of the same strips along the bottom edge. He is saying that the wale as molded is narrower than the length of the preventer plates thus they cannot lay flat on the hull. I didn't do that; of course not all his instructions were written and translated back then. I don't recall having any problems, in my ignorance. Marc is correct; the evergreen on the bulwarks is a different "experiment" Daniel has made on this practice hull. The bulwarks were low at Trafalgar, shockingly so when you imagine shot passing over the deck with the foredeck guns crews closed up! I've seen shots of Victory sitting at Portsmouth with closed in bulwarks but that was in Victorian times, after her seagoing career. Here are the fore chains on my model, attached to the as-molded wale; Bill you can decide if you can get away with it:
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Yes they have been inspired, and Carey is playing at his top level. Fun to watch!.....(later edit).....except for the perennial NHL playoff terrible refereeing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lord no, as far as I know no one can go into a rink yet. Usually I go lunchtime skating in the fall but this year I had to wait until the canal was open to go skating and unfortunately this was a very short season for the outdoor ice. The minor hockey leagues didn't run as far as I know, though at one stage they were having intra-team scrimmages. I'm glad my kids got to experience minor hockey play until university, before the world came crashing down.
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So is this happening under a license from trumpeter to use their plastic?
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- I Love Kit
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Hi Bill; CA means "Cyano Acrylate" glue. Yes, it gives you a few seconds before grabbing. There is regular and gel. Regular is great to lock a knot in rigging thread as it is so watery it gets absorbed; on the other hand even a tiny drop can seep along the thread and be noticeable due to darkening. Gel is better at staying put. There are people who will tell you that CA in rigging will crack up. Maybe they're right and a drop of shellac is best. I don't know.... And by the way: GO HABS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO HABS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO HABS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ole...ole....Ole.....Ole.....!!!!!!
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Bill, I use gel CA like this: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/krazy-glue-krazy-glue-gel-2ml/1000421795 Great news about your new parts! Look forward to seeing you progress.😃
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Oh no, nothing negative. "Kit bashing" is slang for making modifications with non-kit materials to enhance the final product. Could be as little as using different cannons, or as much as Marc's extreme bash on the "Soleil Royale" 🙂 Marc hope the term "bash" alluding to your SR does not offend you!!!!!! It is an inadequate word to describe the incredible work you have done in widening the hull, adding all the frieze details, and completely rebuilding the stern!
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I actually used Evergreen 0.005" sheet to make steel hull plates for my "Preussen" build, because Heller only engraved them above the waterline. Yes, Evergreen is very handy! Bill, I sense some upcoming kit bashing..........
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Bill, I have no opinion about the port hinges, I left it with the kit version. My only comment about the gunport lids as supplied is the actual ship's port hinges place the hinge pin just outside the hull, centred along the crack between the port's upper edge and the hull. So when you want to display an open port on the model, proper placement of the port lid means that the only contact to the hull is the top edge of the hull opening just "kissing" the top outer edge of the port lid. Hard to explain without a picture, I hope the preceding sentence makes sense. If one glues the port lid to the top surface of the port opening, it means pushing the port lid into the opening a little and then the port lid looks too small to close the port opening completely. I ended up gluing very small strips of evergreen along the port lids' top edges, then gluing this evergreen to the top of the port opening, leaving all the port lid outside the hull. I painted this evergreen red inside the port lid, and left bare to glue to the port opening tops (which I did not paint red way back after lining the ports, for this reason). I did add four brass etch eyes to each lid, two inside and two outside.
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Marc, On the recommendation of someone on the old Pete Coleman HMS Victory web site, I ordered various sizes of Amati rigging thread. For the forestay and mainstay I could not get the required diameter in black (was it 1.6mm ?? I think??) but it was available in natural so I dyed it with fabric dye. If you want to view more of the looks of Amati thread there are more pictures in my Victory pseudo-log, added here after the demise of Pete Coleman's HMS Victory web site on which I had a detailed log. I must say rope walks look interesting especially for larger ropes in scales say 1:100 and greater, but my current 1:150 build only needs small threads so the surface is less important. Especially to my ageing eyes 😉
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Uummmmm........did we mention that all these options are on top of the obligatory purchase of better thread and wood blocks and deadeyes? 😁 I did not total my expenses on this ship, or tell my wife, but the enhancements were far more than the kit cost. And worth every penny. LATER EDIT: I was telling my wife about this discussion and she snorted and said, "All those packages from Europe? I figured you spent quadruple the model price on extra stuff". I told her it was actually only about triple 😁
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Bill, Pete's message has reminded me: also ask about his knighthead part - worth getting too! 🙂 The kit is also short of the smaller anchors and I think he may have them too. Or you can order suitably sized ones elsewhere. Sorry to bombard you with info!🤪 EDIT: I just looked and he has expanded his production since my day!!!! Beautiful anchor buoys come with the anchors, and his resin figurehead shield - WOW!!!!!! I would love to have had that to paint with its crisp relief.
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John, the SR is in my stash but I keep putting it off and starting other models. I love your quarter gallery modifications and the re-purposed lower gallery in the stern, also the figurehead colours. I will be referring back to this log of yours whenever I get around to mine. If I ever do 🙄
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Hi Hubac, or "Marc", is that correct? First time my model has been described as "eye candy", especially by someone who crafts such an incredible model as your SR; thank you! 😲 Yes wood deadeyes are pretty much de rigueur for this kit as the plastic ones don't have a groove around their perimeter and so are pretty much impossible to attach to the shrouds. You have a sharp eye to notice the belfry roof. I find Humbrol metallic paints hard to apply convincingly; you almost need to have the can stirring continuously to keep the metal flakes mixed. So I used copper tape for the belfry roof, and didn't bother applying a verdigris patina. I also wrapped the bell itself in silver metallic duct tape; looks very nice but not really accurate as a bronze casting.
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Hi Bill, The advantage of etched brass is that they can form tiny details that cannot be molded in plastic due to strength issues. As you say, the purpose of the brass etch sheets is not to add bling, but to enhance detail. They can also help with functionality. Example (1): The plastic hammock stanchions included in the kit have no molded eyes at their top ends, rendering them very difficult to rig neatly with the ropes that run along their tops to support the nettings. Plus they are necessarily molded over-size to have some strength. Daniel's stanchions are simplicity itself to rig with the netting support ropes. Also, when you inevitably knock them during the build, they bend instead of breaking and are easily straightened. Example (2): The kit provides nothing for the lower chains. In fact, the hull doesn't even have the preventer plates molded on. Heller would have you tie strings to the very clunky-looking strops on their lower deadeyes and pass them through the holes in the hull. The result is to say the least crap looking. Daniel's brass parts replicate the three links of the chains and provide the preventer plates. Here is the Heller method (image from Dafi's log): and here are Dafi's chains (image from Dafi's log): Here are Dafi's chains on my model; note the preventer plates (the etch stanchions are also seen): Example (3): I don't even recall how Heller would have you strop the lower deadeyes in the tops. As I mentioned before their deadeyes are unusable anyway. Dafi's etch sheet that provides the lower chains also provides neat strops for the wood deadeyes you need to buy for the topmast shrouds (smaller than the lower mast deadeyes), and associated hooks to attach the futtock shrouds. Here is an image of my model; if you look carefully you can see the hooks attaching the futtock shrouds to the deadeye strops: Example (4): the sheet with the stanchions includes a new binnacle and skylight. I don't have detailed closeups of them but here is a shot of my model which includes the etch skylight which you can compare to the Heller rendition: The two sheets I recommended earlier provide all these, and more. For instance, gun locks for the cannon and new stunsail boom irons neither of which I used. Hope I have shown you how you can enhance your model considerably!
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Not to interject here with nonsense (I hope), but do we "know" Viking shields had bosses? I thought bosses were originally a central metal part with a "knob" on the inside as a hand hold, until some genius thought of strapping shields to forearms to make use of shoulder and upper arm muscles instead of straining just the wrist? I stand ready to be refuted.....😉 Love your model, Cathead!
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Bill, Yes your gunport linings are looking good. Tedious but the results are worth it. Like you plan, I only lined the lower two gun decks. Though the instructions say to paint the lower and middle gun decks, in reality nobody will ever see them unless they poke an optical fiber through a gunport. If you do paint them you end up scraping paint off to cement the gun trucks to the deck. I left them as is. One can barely see the gun carriages through the ports, much less the decks. If you do want to paint them I suggest gluing the guns in first. When you get to the main deck, I think (? it's been a while) the latest analysis of remaining paint layers carried out by the restorers showed the main deck bulwarks were yellow ochre. Had you heard about the other colour changes they determined from this analysis? The bee lines are no longer yellow ochre on the real ship but a new colour which has some pink in it.You can read up on this at hms-victory.com ps I still recommend you get a copy of Longridge's "Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" and forget the Heller instructions as regards rigging.
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Yes, they might balk at being covered in paste..........😁
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I don't remember seeing your user name before, but I do remember Mr. Myxyzptlyk from 60's Superman comics! 😁😃As I recall, he would appear from time to time to foment mischief, and Superman had to trick him into saying his name backwards which forced him to return to his own dimension or some such.🤪
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Hi Bill, As Hubac says, Heller provides fine molded lines for the ochre stripes and they do not follow the wales. But I seem to recall some inaccuracies in their locations where they meet the quarter galleries and even I think between the two sides. Best check photos of the actual ship. Are you going to frame the gunports inside with some evergreen strips? This replicates the actual hull thickness and adds "heft" to the visual appearance. I didn't see anyone answer your query about Dafi's brass etch.....yes definitely you want to blacken them. I haven't had much luck with blackener in the past (I've since learned one must pickle them first to remove oxide coating) so I painted them. I've been out of touch with your build, but now you have a new follower. 😃
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