allanyed

I think BE has it spot on once the messenger would have been removed. The following is from Lavery's Arming and Fitting English Ships of War (ISBN 0 85177 451 2) page 48. Allan

The frames look pretty close as far as sizing. Can't tell from the photos, but per Mays' scantlings for a 16 foot cutter, 7/8" X 7/8" at the heads is what he shows. As to the room and space, that brings up a great point. Lacking other information, I generally use the station lines as the locations for the frames. If anyone has more accurate contemporary information on room and space that would be fantastic. Your dimensions for the frames and spacing looks close, and superior to the framing on ships' boats found elsewhere. Allan

WELL DONE! The last photo brings up something that is not always seen on models with the proper size and number of frames. The thwarts and benches both are notched to accommodate the frames which follows the detail seen in the contemporary model in the photo below. Thanks Allan

This is absolutely fantastic Chuck. It is so nice to see a properly designed knee of the head with the multi direction tapers. Allan

Further to Druxey's post, the following photo of a model at Preble Hall may help. Allan

I looked up reviews of Super phatic glue and most are good, but with a cautionary tale from several users including this one. I've used Super Phatic glue for the last 3 years after I developed an allergy to CA. I penetrates balsa pretty well and holds better than any other glue I've tried and it dries pretty quickly. I have only two issues with this stuff. 1. After it dries, it remains very slightly flexible which is good for strength, but it means it can't easily be sanded smooth. So keep it off the external side of wing or fuselage panel joints. 2. If stored for more than a few months without having been shaken, the glue separates in the bottle and can't be re-mixed. I bought 2 bottles at Toledo (from the Deluxe Rep) last year. Used one immediately, the other (from the same box) sat on the self for 10 months, when I finished the first, I grabbed the second and it was a solid chunk. I also just received a "new" bottle via Amazon that had hardened - I suspect it sat in a warehouse too long. So keep it moving. Otherwise, Great Stuff! Do the channels have standards on top or hanging knees or similar supports on the underside? Either of these should give a lot of support sans the use of pins which are a challenge to align in the hull and channel. I have used pins, but the only way that seemed to work for me was to insert pins in the channel first with a tiny protrusion. The next step was to mark the hull with these pins points and then drill the receiving holes. Last was to remove the first pins in the channel and replace them with pins that were long enough to penetrate the hull planking. I used bamboo rather than metal for the pins so I could use PVA rather than CA or epoxy. Allan

Craig, ZAZ7028 shows something similar, but with the notch for the mast on the aft side of the cross piece. This would make it easier to raise and step the mast rather than having to lift it and lower through the holes. Note that the mortise is square. I am guessing this would have the mast square rather than round from the point where it rests in the mortise down to the step. The plan also shows what appears to be the securing device. Allan

Your workmanship looks grand. I am not sure about this particular ship but based on contemporary information other RN ships' gratings as well as the head ledge and coaming assembly have round up. It is often a smaller radius than the round up of the deck. Also note that the grating does not have openings against the head ledges or coamings. The sketches below may describe this better than words. The openings were smaller than 3" square, about 0.04 at your scale. Allan

Welcome from a former NJ ship modeler. I also highly recommend you visit the club as suggested above, they are truly great group with tons of experience. Allan

https://www.thewellingtontrust.org/ Scroll down a page to get the info and sign up if you are interested. Allan

I am continuing to thoroughly enjoy your build log! This was brought up the other day regarding the Bounty launch.... was the riser scored for the thwarts on the cutter? Thanks for sharing your build, the workmanship and the scaling of each part should be an inspiration for anyone wanting to build a realistic looking cutter or any ship's boat for that matter. Allan

Richard, I can see how forming the plates had to be difficult. You did a great job! I do wonder how rivets would hold in wood. Wouldn't they quickly work loose? For appearance it probably does not matter if the plates were bolted through the planking and wooden hawse pieces to the 10" steel reinforcing pieces that existed inboard. Or, maybe these sheets were nailed just like was done for copper sheathing thus would have indented marks rather than bumps. Just curious to know if anyone has found any information on this from articles on the wreck or contemporary information from when she was built. Thanks for sharing your build Allan

Hi Jaager You are of course absolutely correct but I doubt many builders will follow this, especially at the smaller scales. Allan

Is the hull solid, plank on frame or plank on bulkhead? Not unlike Jud's method, but for modelers without firearms, if all the planking is up, draw the location of the ports exactly where they should be. Keep in mind that if multi-decked, the ports on the lower deck are larger than those on the next deck up and so on to the QD and FC. Once the openings are marked, drill VERY SMALL holes just inside the line. Then cut with a scalpel or a scalpel and keyhole saw (small ones for Xacto work well) combination. Use a plug the right size as suggested by Toni and file or use sanding sticks to open the port to the proper size. Once done add the sills top and bottom and the linings on the bottom and sides. There were USUALLY no stops on the top of the port but we have seen a couple contemporary models at RMG and I think Preble Hall that have them on all four surfaces. Cheers Allan

Hi Ken, Many members feel it is a very good idea to cross check things found in many kits, including some that use the wrong name (the jolly boat on the Bounty was rotted and never involved in Lt. Bligh's famous voyage) A pretty wide discussion on the Bounty launch has been going on in the plans section here at MSW if you have not already seen it. It was started as a question about the tholes, but has progressed to much more. I am asking the mods to change the title as it has grown well past just the tholes question and comments. modelshipworld.com/topic/33217-ships-boats-gap-between-tholes/ Allan

Welcome home Dan!! Allan

Hi Ken, Your launch model continues to look very nice, but now the rigging brings up a big question for me. Was she cutter rigged as you show or lug rigged? Lavery states on page 219 in The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War that launches were usually cutter rigged, but Captain Bligh's log makes reference to rigging shrouds for two masts so maybe she was originally rigged with a single mast then changed at some later point before his famous voyage following the mutiny including being lug rigged. Allan

Welcome aboard. As soon as I saw your replica with the bottles in the background I started humming Show Me the Way to Go Home and now I can't get it out of my head. Allan

Benjamin How wide are the gaps? If a few thousandths in one or two spots, the idea of sawdust is used by many of us in different ways. If it is more than this why not remove the errant planks redo them without gaps? Allan

First, a warm welcome to MSW. On which San Francisco is this kit based ? There were several but if it is a San Francisco from the 1600's or earlier The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast by Anderson may be a help to you. I found copies on line from a few dollars to over $50. https://www.ebay.com/itm/353709226806 There may be other books that are more appropriate for the era you are working on, but definitely look for contemporary based information to supplement the kit information. Looking at the rigging in photos of the model, there are some things that you might want to delve into such as round deadeyes and the presence of belaying pins. Allan

In some cases instead of sending crew aloft to furl a sail high on the mast the yard is lowered to the deck to take down the sail. Lowering the yards past the stays, etc must have been a challenge in itself and hardly worth the effort. Allan

I agree, but now this has me wondering, when the sails are bent and furled or unbent , what is the purpose of lowering the topsail or topgallant yards? I realize this was done, but why? The Elements and Practice of Rigging and Seamanship addresses a lot of things, including such details as the process of unbending a topsail properly but there is no mention of the purpose of raising or lowering the yards that I have been able to find so far. His description for unbending the topsail on page 336 is detailed and pretty interesting----- FIRST cast off the points of the reefs, keeping fast the earings; then furl the sail, and cast off the rope bands, which make fast round the sail, clear of the gaskets. After this cast off the lee earings, and haul the lee side of the sail into the top; then haul in the weather side. Now unbend the reef tackle pendents, bunt-lines, and bow-lines; bight the sail snugly up together; and send it down by the clue-lines to windward or leeward, as most convenient. Allan

Hi Phillip You will be very pleased with the results as they will be pretty much to scale, which is as you know from your own experience, impossible with cloth and sewing at scales smaller than about 1:24. Allan

As said above, the choice is yours, but There is no cloth that is to scale at 1:48 or smaller nor a method of sewing that is to scale at these sizes. Kits such as yours sometime provide sails and if you really want sails, seriously consider setting them aside and making your own out of a non-woven material such as silk span or an ultra high thread count cloth that will at least get closer to scale weave and appearance. There are many posts here at MSW, You Tube videos (www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_m_VWzk4w8) and an excellent printed booklet at SeaWatch books by David Antscherl on sail making. Go to the RMF Collections website and look at the hundreds of contemporary rigged models. The vast majority of these classic rigged models have no sails. Whether to add or not to add sails - there is no right or wrong, only what you would like. Allan

In addition to the tutorial by David Antscherl, if you have not already done so, check out the You Tube video series on planking by Chuck Passaro. Allan