Heroine 1838 by ggrieco - FINISHED - Scale 1:24 - Western River Steamboat as she appeared before hitting a snag in the Red River

[kees de mol]

Hello Glenn,

 

I worked me trough the pages today and it was a joy to me. You are a real professional and I want to thank you that you share your build with us. Very nice to see how you build everything.

 

Kind regards, Kees

[wyz]

Glenn,

     How many times can I complement you on your exquisite workmanship without repeating myself over and over.  My thesaurus has run dry of new words to describe the high quality of your work.  Awesome!

 

Tom

[ggrieco]

Thanks chborgm, druxey, Carl, Kees and Tom. I really appreciate your kind comments and advice.

 

 

I was hoping I could get some advice on color. I'm not color blind, just color ignorant. Most of my models are just oiled and if I do use paint it is usually just black. I was hoping someone could give me an idea for an appropriate white that would have been used on boats in the early 19th century. For black I always use Ronan Japan colors and was wondering if one of their whites might have the correct appearance. I am totally at a loss when it comes to color and any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

[Cathead]

Wow, fascinating question. I'm afraid I'll no help this time, I have no idea.

[mtaylor]

Glenn,

 

Will it be weathered or "factory fresh"?   I think the white would probably have been some version of whitewash and flat.  

[ggrieco]

Mark,

 

I think I'm going to go with slightly weathered. The black I use doesn't penetrate so I can rough it up a bit and the wood shows through. It goes on flat but I can burnish it to a slightly glossy sheen in the less weathered areas. I wouldn't mind if I could get the same effect from the white. I don't like shiney finishes and definitely would prefer flat.

[leclaire]

Glenn,

 

I am currently building the MS Chaperon and also wrestled with color and how to get that washout look for the white painted portion, which is virtually all of the boat now that I think about it. I am using Tamiya Flat White Acrylic and have been very happy with the results. One coat, a very light sanding, and then a second coat is all it needs. Now that has worked on the wood that came with the kit but you may want to give it a try on some scrap from your build. Possibly a simple solution.

 

Bob

[ggrieco]

Thanks Bob,

 

I'll see if I can order some this evening. i don't think I can get it locally - the closest hobby store is an hour away in Houston. I appreciate the suggestion and will give it a try on some test pieces.

[mtaylor]

Glenn,

 

Depending on how much weathering you want, you might take a look here:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13233-black-sea-coaster-%C3%A7ektirme-by-mhmtyrl/ Mehmet goes a bit to the "well-weathered look but he's good at it.  I'm not sure how they get there... some put something on the wood, paint and when dry, wipe it off and leaves a peeling paint effect.  Others use weathering powders like the model railroad guys use.

 

I've seen a bunch of topics on this here:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/forum/21-painting-finishing-and-weathering-products-and-techniques/

 

I hope it helps and you find the look you want.

[ggrieco]

Thanks Mark,

 

I've enjoyed checking in on Mehmet's builds. I've spent some time on the Turkish coast and his models bring back memories. I'll PM him about what he uses for white.

 

The techniques page is a good idea as well. I'll take a look. I still have a little time to experiment and I don't mind playing around with different ideas.

[cog]

Glenn,

 

I wouldn't go near the glossy paints/varnishes. Satin is already to far, but you could ruff it up a bit. It will look to much like a model if glossy, and besides, if you are going to give her a bit of a weathered look, the glossy won't do anyway.

[BANYAN]

Glenn, I think pigment based paints were still the only option back then (please check this though) so they were not a pure white.  I use Admiralty paints which are acrylic, pigment based and designed from samples of paint taken from the Victory I think?  They have a matt sheen finish.  Perhaps another option for you to consider?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited June 14, 2016 by BANYAN

[Canute]

If you want some peeling paint, daub some rubber cement on in a few spots. Paint your body color and then peel off the rubber cement daubs. I used it on some logging camp shacks and they were OK. Don't get too carried away with the technique and do everything. Less is more.

[Cathead]

Glenn,

 

I may have misunderstood your question; I thought you were asking about matching paint color to a shade of white typical of the era. About that, I have no idea. If you were just asking about paint/color methods in general, as many of the other responses seem to, then I do have a suggestion. My favorite way to paint/weather wood, for a long time dating back to many wooden model railroad buildings, is to use a light coat of paint followed by a rubbing of pastels. At times I've even used only pastels to color wood. The pastels really dull the surface nicely and give it a bit of subtle texture that helps eliminate the "model" look, and you can gently blend many different colors/shades to get the right finish, more so than with paints in my opinion. They inherently give the wood a weathered, rough look that I really like. Give it a try on some scraps and see what you think. Pastels alone may be too rough for your otherwise crisp model, but pastels over light paint could work really well.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Cathead

[druxey]

Glenn: if you can show us an example of what you have in mind we can perhaps give more specific advice.

[ggrieco]

Thanks everybody, I've gotten some good advice and a couple different paints to try. I'm definitely going with a flat finish and I've been happy with pigment based Japan colors. Pat, I'll give the Admiralty white a try.

 

Cathead, sorry, looking back my question was a little vague. I had so many questions that I didn't ask any of them correctly. You were right though, one of my questions was about the proper shade of white for the era. You phrased it much better than I. I've seen flake white, zinc white etc. and have no clue as to which would best represent the period finish. I have a can of Ronan flake white. It is flat and pigment based, goes on opaque with one coat, doesn't raise the grain but is thin enough to show the texture. I love the finish but am not sure if the color is correct. I do like your idea about pastels. I'll test it out on some scrap and see how it works. This should be interesting, I have a few different products and techniques to try. I only wish I had a nice color photograph of Heroine to copy.

 

Druxey, I wish I had an example. Unfortunately, I don't even have a clear picture of what I need in my mind. Testing out the different options mentioned, I'm hoping that maybe I'll know it when I see it. I'm afraid that, short of actually seeing the Heroine as she was, I'm going to just have to go with my gut.

[druxey]

To imitate whitewash, try titanium white (it won't oxidize like flake white over time) with a very small touch of black in it. If you use acrylic paint, you can apply thin washes and build up until you have the degree of coverage you want.

[Jack12477]

Glenn, I haven't used pastels on wooden ships but I have used them extensively on wood Model RR structures and on plastic Armor models.  You can get artist pastel chalk in any good art supply shop. The technique I used was to take the chalk stick and create chalk "dust" using a knife, micro-plane zester, anything. Then use a fine clean artist paint brush to dab it onto the wood. The other technique  used to weather models was dry brushing with various paint shades. An artist fixative can be used to set the chalk "dust" in place. You can use a Q-tip to rub the chalk into the wood for an even deeper weathering effect. Stick to the earth tones, grays, and black chalks for the best weathering effects.

[ggrieco]

Thanks druxey and Jack,

 

Some good ideas I can't wait to try out. I have three different white paints on order and I'll probably steal some pastels from my daughters art set.

 

Thanks again

[ggrieco]

This week I completed the posts for the boiler deck and started planing the planking for the sides.  Luckily, unlike the deck, the side planking is of a uniform width and it should go on quickly.

 

All the posts finally in supporting the boiler deck

 

 

 

We know for the main deck, there was a nosing that covered the ends of the deck beams that consisted of a one inch thick plank the depth of the beam ends with a three inch diameter half round moulding on the face.  I continued with that profile on the boiler deck

 

The post were more numerous adjacent to the paddlebox.

 

One of the surviving pieces of side planking.  This 5 inch wide piece of tongue and groove planking was recovered from the lowere edge of the port paddlebox.  It still has the remain of black paint on it.

 

 

Starting to plank the sides.

 

Detail of the doorway into the paddlebox. The posts and nailers for the aft end of the box haven't been added yet.  We know the builder intentionally left two planks longer at the foot of the door the rest of the area inside the box was left unplanked to allow water to spill off the buckets.

[Cathead]

Glenn, any idea what kind of connectors were used in the real framing? Were the longitudinal beams bolted to the posts, nailed, or other? Any support brackets, or just connectors through the wood? What about the deck beams to the longitudinal beams? This was something I wondered about in my build and couldn't find an answer for.

 

You didn't want to mill scale tongue-and-groove siding? You're slipping! Just kidding, everything looks delightful as usual.

[Mahuna]

Beautiful work Glenn.  Can you give us a few details on how you created the profile for the nosing you show in photo #3, and how you cut that perfect hole for the post shown in the same photo?

[druxey]

Delightful pictures as always, Glenn. Thanks for this Saturday's instalment!

[dvm27]

Flawless work as usual, Glenn. What type of wood are you using for the planking?

[Jim Lad]

More beautiful work, Glenn.  Thanks for the update.

 

John

[Omega1234]

Unbelievably jaw-droppingly good!

[BANYAN]

My week is complete; thanks Glenn.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[ggrieco]

Thanks Everybody,

 

Cathead, none of the structure above the main deck survived except the post holes and a piece of the very short rail that ran around the deck. Judging from the framing of the main deck, I'm assuming that the boiler deck clamp was bolted to the posts and the deck beams were bolted through the clamp. Good question about how it was fastened to the longitudinal timbers. If I was going to leave the deck unplanked, I would probably notch them into the deck beams with a shelf half the depth of the timber but, I would just be guessing. Yellowstones contract called for 1 1/2" thick tongue and groove pine for the boiler deck, I think this would have distributed the load on the deck better than the non-grooved planking placing less reliance on the individual supporting timbers. As for fastening the deck planking, Since Heroine's main deck was fastened with nails, I'm sure the boiler deck and side planking were as well. I forgot to mention that the side planking was only on a inch thick. I though about attempting the tongue and groove on the port side where sections would be cutaway just to show exposed edges but changed my mind after milling a piece and realizing how thin the tongue would be.

 

Frank, for the mounding cutter, l just drilled a 1/8 inch hole in a piece of mild steel and ground to the center line. I milled some strips of boxwood 1/8 x 1/16 inch and dragged the cutter along the strip. The profile was so simple and small that it only took 4 or 5 passes to get a clean shape. As for the hole, I just slowly worked the hole with a square needle file until a test piece of the post fit tightly. I love my Grobet needle files, they really do a great job.

 

Greg, the planking is Castillo Boxwood as well although, it does look a little more grainy in the photo.

 

 

Thanks again to everyone for your comments and likes!

[albert]

Very nice work Glenn.

[Louie da fly]

Wonderful work Glenn. She's really starting to take shape. Your build log is a real inspiration.

 

Steven