21 ft Yawl Longboat for a Sixth Rate by vaddoc - FINISHED - Scale 1:10 - Plans from the National Maritime Museum

[BobG]

Nice to see you back in your model shipyard, Vaddoc, and congratulations on putting your health and fitness first and foremost. A lot of people have gained weight during the pandemic from what I have read. I'm looking forward to seeing you continue to make progress on this wonderful model.

[vaddoc]

Dear friends

 

Planking is finished! But what a difficult boat to plank!

 

With great difficulty I managed to scrape a few moments here and there to work on the boat. My 3D plans I am pretty sure are correct, but I think they did not transfer that well to wood as some of the lines looked a bit wrong. In any case, with a lot of eyeballing and using the 80 - 20 rule, it all came together. But it was not easy!

 

It is not only that the planks need to bend and more importantly twist a lot, it is also that the largest distance keel to sheer is near the bow and not midships. On top of this, batens cannot really be used due to the very curved bow. The scarfs also made a fair plank curve difficult. That was a mountain to climb. 

 

My planking I think is more or less correct but if I was to build this boat again, I would change the run of the planks a bit at the bow.  A few photos:

Perhaps the planks could end a bit lower at the bow but I do not think this is too significant, there is plenty of room.

Another issue is that gaps have appeared between the planks. The wood database mentions that beech has large movement in service and indeed, the planks have shrunk considerably after they reached their moisture balance.

I will use filler but I cannot sand the hull just yet, the screws need to go which means all the ribs need to be installed, the temporary frames to be removed and all the screws exchanged for tree nails.

 

So we now move on to the next stage: steam bending ribs! And also making a few thousand tree nails...

I started cutting parts of the frames to open up the space

This is as far as I was able to get, at least I managed to not go into hibernation.  But I am really sorry I have not been able to keep up with your logs and updates. 

 

Till next time

My very best wishes to all

 

Vaddoc

 

[Gregory]

Just curious, since you have apparently researched this well.

 

I asked about the planking of the transom of English longboats in this topic.

Has your research turned up any information in this regard?

[vaddoc]

Hi @Gregory

I do not come across any specific information, but these are my thoughts:

Probably transoms were made from a few pieces, edge to edge like the planking but thicker. It is much easier to find very wide short segments so maybe it would only take 3 pieces to make a Transom. Most of the transom is well above the water line so no caulking would be needed. I do not think any particular framing would be needed as usually there would be a sternpost or at least a knee, and also the planking, to keep the transom securely in place. In the boat I am building, each transom piece would be nailed to three planks on each side.

In more modern larger vessels, on top of the sternpost there are extra pieces of timber as the photo bellow shows. This would be easy enough to use also for boats and would result to a very strong transom. However in "The boats of men-of-war" by May, for a 22 ft long boat it states:

Transom: Broad or moulded at the upper part 3ft 9 in, thick or sided 3 inch, knees sided 2 3/4 in. 

No mention of framing.

[vaddoc]

Another quick update

 

I started steaming and installing the ribs. As expected, beech responded wonderfully to wet heat becoming as pliable as boiled spaghetti. My steam box is working great and in no time I had bent half of the ribs.

I made a simple spacer to make sure the rib is placed at equal distances from the frames

Then I started screwing the ribs to the planks. 

Regards

Vaddoc

[vaddoc]

Well, it has been so long since my last post, I had to look to find my log!

 

So a lot of things have come to pass: I lost some more weight, gained a belt in Tae Kwon Do, injured my hamstring and converted to an electric car to name a few. In the shipyard though, progress has been far more modest - I have been very busy lately.

 

I finished all ribs but the foremost one. This was left in place until the screws at the stem are replaced with tree nails. There were a few ribs that needed a lot of twisting and bending but steaming the ribs worked miracles. Most of the ribs are beech but I think I must have mixed my strips a bit and some birch and alder may have sneaked in.

Also, I think I should have had more cant ribs at the bow - it's ok though

So, each screw holding the plank to the temporary frame had to be removed, the rib installed, the hole re-drilled from the outside in, through the rib now, and a new screw inserted from the inside to push the rib against the planks. 13 planks x 2 sides x 2 screws each x 32 ribs( +stem) + a few here and there = 1700 screws.

 

So, 1700 screws to attach the planks to the temporary frames, then another 1700 to attach the ribs to the planks. But now, all these screws need to be removed and replaced with tree nails. So we need 1700 tree nails + wastage.

 

I have a fair few left from other projects but there is no consistency in colour, material and size. So I need to make them. The photo bellow shows my tree nail making station:

Now, I have made many thousands tree nails using the needle method but I really struggled. The needle burned the wood, the nails constantly broke off inside the needle, couldn't find the right size needle, in short mayhem. I spend a lot of time experimenting and finally got things to work. These are the tree nails I made today, ready to be released by aggressively sanding the underside. I think there are about 600 or so.

Every missing nail was a blockage in the needle that had to be cleared.

So, these were the changes I made that fixed the problem: I used a needle with thin wall. I slowed the speed of the drill press from high to medium (low speed led to breakages). I realised the wood was too dry so I soaked it in water overnight and allowed it to dry. Finally, I made sure the end of the needle was sharp.

 

Now, the best nails are made from hard wood with straight grain. This is the wood I am using (slices already soaked):

The right wood is cherry. Very nice wood, I ve already made thousands of nails from these wood but lately it has been playing up. The wood on the left is either Howthorn (most likely) or apricot (I had two logs but I could find only one in the garage, so it is either or). It is a hard wood though so it does not matter.

(The little piece of wood at the bottom of the photo is indeed apricot. I tried a slice but it is too dry and did not work.)

 

So, next few sessions in the shipyard will be devoted to tree nails. 

 

Best wished

 

Vaddoc

[Bedford]

The model looks magnificent, well done on the rib fit out.

And now making 1700 trenails to replace the 1700 screws that replaced 1700 screws. there's nothing quite like the tedium of model making is there? It's like tying the ratlines on a tall ship. I find it good for calming the head.

[vaddoc]

Dear all

 

Thank you for your likes. 

Indeed Bedford, there are some tasks in model building that are certainly therapeutic!

 

So the first bunch of nails came out just about acceptable, still trying to standardise the process and solve issues.

However, from then on things went much better and lovely tree nails produced

This is about 2000 nails. I ll make another 1000, and since I am at it I ll process that slice of cherry for future use. Then I ll be ready to start replacing screws.

I had make a thread on making nails, I ll update that as well.

 

Regards

Vaddoc

[vaddoc]

Dear all

 

It's been almost two month since my last post. I have been working on the boat when life permitted - which was not too often.

But even so, there has been progress.

To start with, all the screws have been replaced with tree nails. Unscrew the screw, re-drill the hole by hand, dip the tree nail in glue and insert in the whole, wipe the excess glue and trim the nail - then repeat many hundreds of times. 

 

Then, I started filling the large gaps between the planks with filler, both from the outside and the inside. It is a shame really, these gaps are due to the shrinkage of the wood. When I cut the planks they were tight against each other. However, beech really has a tremendous movement in service and huge changes in dimension with changes in moisture. I will not be using beech again!

 

So here is how the hull looked like after the filler liberally applied. Not an elegant sight!

Then I started sanding inside. The little Proxon pen sander was very helpful.

Then I started sanding the outer hull. This is how one side looks, this is with 80 grit. Beech is very hard wood. There is a dimple in one of the planks at the bow. I think I ll paint this hull so it will be filled.

Now, just to show how much the beech moves, this is the hull of the Launch. There are cracks everywhere! I think I will not repair it, I ll just leave it as is.

Till next time

 

Vaddoc

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by vaddoc

[Bedford]

Given the unusual heat you've been experiencing I suppose it's not unexpected for the wood to behave that way. I wonder though what happens when it returns to normal. Will that filler become an issue or will you seal the timber before it has a chance to re-hydrate?

[Wintergreen]

Nice progress Vaddoc!

If you decide to paint the hull I'd say it will look very authentic with those small cracks and gaps. The paint will of course fill the gaps somewhat and then it will just look like any wooden boat after a winters storage 😉

Keep it up!

[vaddoc]

Dear all

 

Thank you for your likes and for visiting. I certainly have missed MSW!

 

@Bedford I will seal the wood Bedford both inside and out. I doubt though this will stop the beech changing its dimensions and I am certain the paint will crack along the plank edges. But it's ok!

 

@Wintergreen I will paint the hull Hakan and I ll fill the few dimples at the bow. Not sure if it will look authentic though! I was actually thinking of using enamel paint for this boat not sure if the wood moving makes it a worse or better choice.

 

In the last two months the only thing I have been able to get done is sanding of the hull. But the amount of sanding needed has been epic: starting at 60 grit, then 80, 100, 120, 180 and finally 240. It is a big girl and both the filler and beech wood are hard so hard work.

 

The photos bellow show the hull as it is after the 240 grit sanding. I ll do a bit more filling, then sand to 320 grit, seal and re-sand to 320. The hull will be painted after the interior is complete so that it is rigid.

The hull is very smooth and started to reflect light. A long way to go but it is getting there.

 

Regards

Vaddoc

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by vaddoc

[vaddoc]

Well, time for another update! I was unwell and stayed home, so got to work a bit more on the boat.

 

Now, there is some progress but also a lot of questions to be answered and decisions to be made. Any of your thoughts would be most welcome!

 

First issue is how high to place the thwarts and the floor boards. I tried to find relevant info in books and the internet but did not get anywhere. In the end I measured the original NMN plans and the actual dimensions of the model and tried to use common sense for a realistic and comfortable arrangement.

At midships, keel to sheer will be 83 mm or in real boat, 83 cm. I think the distance top of thwart to sheer should be 20 cm. The floor timbers should be something like 10 cm high to allow a reasonably wide floor and the top of the thwarts will be about 50 cm from the floor boards. I think this should be a realistic arrangement. Then again, those days people were probably shorter than we are today. Oh well...

 

Time for a few photos.

I first made the breasthook. It was a bit fiddly, sanding it curved and bevelled but actually I got it with the first attempt, which was good as pear wood sheets this thick are expensive.

However, it did look a bit huge and out of scale so I reduce it - I think it looks much better now.

I think I might add a small deck bellow the breasthook, I think this is what the plans show:

I then made template for the floor timbers. Again, it was actually a pretty straightforward job.

Now, these are my thoughts: I d like to seal the interior, prime it and paint it white but keeping the pear wood transom, keel and floors unpainted, these will be enhanced with Tung oil. The stringer that will support the thwarts will also be painted white but everything else added will be unpainted pear wood treated with Tung oil. The outer keel will be painted last.

 

Alternatively, I could leave the interion unpainted. Just apply Tung oil, seal with water based sealer, rub with 0000 steel wool and then add all the remaining pear wood trims etc and last paint the outer hull.

 

I do have a suspicion that if I paint the interior, since it is not well sanded and prepared, it might look horrible with all imperfections highlighted by the paint.

 

Any suggestions would be very welcome!

 

Regards

Vaddoc

[Bedford]

According to Iain Oughtred the rowlock should be 150-180mm above the thwart (6-7") so you can work back from there to set the height of the thwarts. I'm 6'2" and my rowlocks are at 200mm (they were 180 but the oars didn't reliably clear the gunwale so I raised them 20mm) and they are perfect. You should also be able to work backwards from the thwart height to achieve a comfortable floor height.

 

For anyone who isn't familiar with Iain Oughtred, he is one of the premier small boat designers. world famous for his beautiful designs.

 

As for the interior finish, it's not uncommon to paint below the sole and oil above. I agree that the difficulty in sanding to a smooth finish inside due to all the obstructions may have a negative effect if painted.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Bedford

[vaddoc]

@Bedford Excellent, lots of good info, thanks Bedford!

[iMustBeCrazy]

7 hours ago, vaddoc said:

First issue is how high to place the thwarts and the floor boards. I tried to find relevant info in books and the internet but did not get anywhere. In the end I measured the original NMN plans and the actual dimensions of the model and tried to use common sense for a realistic and comfortable arrangement.

At midships, keel to sheer will be 83 mm or in real boat, 83 cm. I think the distance top of thwart to sheer should be 20 cm. The floor timbers should be something like 10 cm high to allow a reasonably wide floor and the top of the thwarts will be about 50 cm from the floor boards. I think this should be a realistic arrangement. Then again, those days people were probably shorter than we are today. Oh well...

50cm (19.7") would be too tall for me, I think 44 would be the max and I'm 5'10".

 

The drawing you're working from, ZAZ7145, gives 50cm as you suggest but ZAZ7128 (a 26 ft Yawl) gives a much more reasonable 42cm. Many of the boat drawings seem to be based on very tall people

 

 

Large copies of the above drawings are available from wiki commons:

ZAZ7145

ZAZ7128

[vaddoc]

@iMustBeCrazy Thank you Craig! What you say makes total sense, actually I measured the height of my office chair and is indeed 45 cm. I could raise the floors timbers to such a height, this would make a very wide floor but I wonder if the bat will look a bit shallow compared to its length and whether in real life it would be a bit top heavy - but it is a very wide boat on the other side. also thanks for the high resolution pictures, very nice.

[vaddoc]

Well, it's official: I am Covid positive! I am actually quite well apart from some odd symptoms and fatigue and there is a good aspect to it: I ll be able to work on the boat for the next few days.

 

So today some more progress.

I first made a rough template for a deck to sit bellow the breast hook. I d like this deck to have grating but I do not have a mill so I must figure an easy way to do it with the tools I have.

Next, I started cutting the floor timbers and sanding them to height (16mm so that the floor to top of thwarts will be 45 cm in full scale). Unexpectedly tricky, I made two and wasted some expensive pear wood.

These are 16 mm high or 16 cm in the real boat. Kind of look a bit high and going a bit wide and high up the sides. I could lower to 11 cm but then as discussed above, the thwarts will sit 50 cm above the floors - a bit too much.

I ll cut a few more timbers and see how they look. 

 

Regards

Vaddoc

[mtaylor]

No need for a mill to do gratings actually.  Two ways...    1) buy some grating blanks.  OR.... 2) use a small table saw and slot your own. There's ways shown here on MSW how to do this.

[Bedford]

I wouldn't worry about it looking top heavy, it would have been a very heavy boat and may have even had some ballast in the bilge.

 

Shackleton put about 1 ton of rocks into the James Caird in order to sail it from Elephant Island to South Georgia after Endurance was crushed by ice and sank.

 

 

 

[iMustBeCrazy]

5 hours ago, vaddoc said:

These are 16 mm high or 16 cm in the real boat. Kind of look a bit high and going a bit wide and high up the sides. I could lower to 11 cm but then as discussed above, the thwarts will sit 50 cm above the floors - a bit too much.

I ll cut a few more timbers and see how they look. 

My choice (on my Bounty Launch) was to set the riser and thwarts as per the drawing and raise the footwaling? (floorboards) as you are. As you can see in the pic my first try, which felt right, was too low and I had to add some more. I finished up with about 43cm in the real world.

 

 

[vaddoc]

@mtaylor Thanks Mark, I am sure I ll figure it out, as always lots of good info on MSW.

@Bedford I was not aware of Shackleton's open see adventure, amazing strength and indomitable spirit. Tiny boat!

@iMustBeCrazy Thanks Craig, very interesting. Could I ask, I see you painted the boat inside. Would you do it again, or would you leave it unpainted? I would like to paint it but I am concerned the paint will bring out the many imperfections and will not look good.

 

A bit more work done.

 

I finished the floors, they came out ok relatively painlessly.

I then started thinking how the small deck could be arranged. It took a long time and a lot of wasted cardboard, nothing is finalised but I have a vague idea how it will go.

Then I made again the breasthook. The one I made was fine but the pear wood was the wrong colour, I used a sheet of apparently unsteamed pear that came from a not so good order of wood I got years ago. I made it again but this took hours, I kept messing it up. Finally, it came out fine.

I then trimmed the excess plank length at the transom, I have been putting it off for some time now. This needed a seriously sharp chisel.

 

I then boiled some pear wood strips and wrapped them around the hull to take the shape, I think it is time to start putting the boat together.

Unfortunately, putting the end of the strips in boiling water had a dramatic effect on the wood. Even after it was cold, it was very soft and pliable and the colour changed from pink to a dead brown. The next photo did not capture the colours well.

I ve actually never steamed pear before, I hope the colour will return after it dries.

 

Vaddoc

[iMustBeCrazy]

28 minutes ago, vaddoc said:

Could I ask, I see you painted the boat inside. Would you do it again, or would you leave it unpainted?

I painted mainly because the strakes in the kit were in two very different colours and I just didn't like it. And yes the paint does bring out the imperfections, I may go back and make a curved sanding block that fits between the ribs and polish it up a bit. I do like a 'factory fresh' look so I might paint again.

Next time I might play with pre-finishing the inside of the strakes, perhaps with diluted wood glue (after staining if that is the desired look) so they can still be glued to the ribs/frames. Just a thought.

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by iMustBeCrazy

[vaddoc]

Greetings to all or should I say "Gratings!"? Yes, today we will be scratch-making gratings!

 

Honestly, it is far easier (and less bloody) to get them from Chuck. But I had an itchiness to try and either way, I don't think there are gratings at 1:10 scale.

 

Now, I did make gradings for the Deben but there I cut corners. They came out alright but were not done properly. I ve been scratching my head for the last 2-3 days and tried a few things that did not work. Sadly, a search on MSW was not too helpful.

 

The problem is the scale. If the size of the squares equals that of the table saw blade, things are easy. But in 1:10 scale, my squares are 5 mm and the tine Proxon blade 1 mm thick.

 

So here it goes:

 

I have the small Proxon table saw, it is very underpowered but actually quite accurate and easy to use. I first added a sheet on top of the table saw so that I could clamp something to act as a fence. Then, I  cut several 5 mm strips from a pear sheet, I think it is 3 mm thick.

Then, I glued the strips on another piece of pear sheet.

Then, I drilled, inserted treenails dipped in PVA glue, allowed a few minutes to dry (in the meantime worked on a second piece), then lightly sanded and cut a strip across.

I actually forgot to take pictures but the strips produced look like this

After I made very many, I managed to cut my finger, thankfully not deep at all.

 

Then, I started to assemble the gratings. I had to trim every single square with a sharp chisel, by afternoon the dining room was full of tiny wood chippings but the gratings came out quite acceptable I think. They still miss a few tree nails and need sanding, gluing and trimming but I am happy. Apologies for the terrible photo, I ll take a better one for the next post.

Of course they are far from perfect, the tree nails are in the wrong positions, the squares are not perfect or symmetrical, the grain runs parallel in all pieces instead of crossing 90 degrees (not an issue with pear) but I can live with these.

 

So I have 3 pieces, one will go on the small deck at the bow, one to the floor aft and the third one I have not figured out yet where I ll use it.

 

Best wishes

Vaddoc

[shipmodel]

Vaddoc - 

 

No need to apologize.  They look great, especially for such a large scale.

PS - I keep a tube of Neosporin and a pack of Band-aids near the table saw at all times.  LOL

 

Dan

[vaddoc]

Oh dear!

It has been 5 months since my last post. The cause has been twofold: Too much work but also serious difficulties with the boat.

 

I returned to the shipyard and found two major issues.

One was mould developing on the model. The garage where I do my modelling has not been heated for months with temperatures as low as -8 C. Thankfully it was like fine dust, easy to remove. But when mould starts growing on your model, it certainly is a subtle sign you 've gone into hibernation!

The other was that the boat had dramatically changed its shape. Initially, the beam wanted to spread so I had to make braces to hold the sides. However, now this was reversed. The planks appeared to push the sides inwards and the beam was drastically reduced, pushing the stem and sternpost outwards.

 

I started pushing the planking outwards with bits of wood, gradually increasing the beam, using the braces as guide - so happy I had taken this precaution. It took a few weeks to get the boat back into the proper shape.

However, the sheer was now a bit wavy so I fixed a couple of very thick strips on the inner aspect - this did the job well. I also heavily reinforced the flimsy braces.

Now, with the boat back in shape, I was able to proceed with the build. I am essentially making it up as I go as I do not have any detailed plans but I do not think I am actually far off. Now, I would like to have a deck at the bow. This proved a fantastically difficult task.

 

I tried all sorts of jigs to mark the planking so that I could install stringers to support the deck. In the end, I started screwing little pieces of wood, and using flat sheets finally got it close enough. This took weeks and months - very difficult.

Then I screwed the stringers which had to be soaked in boiling water as the curve was quite severe. The small wood pieces were then removed

 

Then, I started making a frame with beams to support the deck. I forgot to take pictures though but again, was not easy. In the next photo the frame is ready, waiting for the epoxy to cure.

Next, I slowly started adding the various pieces for the actual deck. It slowly is coming together now.

I hope things will speed up a bit now.

 

Till next time

 

Vaddoc

 

[Bedford]

That could have been devastating, glad you were able to salvage it. Perhaps it's worthwhile moving incomplete models inside during long pauses in the cold months?

Now you're doing some very fiddly stuff fitting that deck.

[Wintergreen]

Good save and good job on that forward decking Vaddoc!

Tricky is an understatement I think.

 

Keep it up!

[FriedClams]

Good to see an update Vaddoc.  Bummer about the mold and misshapen hull, but it looks like you've worked your way through those problems.  Nice work on fitting the deck.

 

Gary  

[vaddoc]

22 hours ago, Bedford said:

That could have been devastating, glad you were able to salvage it. Perhaps it's worthwhile moving incomplete models inside during long pauses in the cold months?

Now you're doing some very fiddly stuff fitting that deck.

It would be very worthwhile but British homes are tiny and the admiral would not have it...

 

2 hours ago, Wintergreen said:

Good save and good job on that forward decking Vaddoc!

Tricky is an understatement I think.

 

Keep it up!

Hakan, I ended up feeling I simply had not enough brain cells for the task! So glad finally it is done.

 

1 hour ago, FriedClams said:

Good to see an update Vaddoc.  Bummer about the mold and misshapen hull, but it looks like you've worked your way through those problems.  Nice work on fitting the deck.

 

Gary  

Good to be back Gary. The mould has disappeared now that the garage has been heating up. The shape incident is interesting. I think initially the ribs were pushing the planks outwards but as slowly they started accepting their new shape, the inward pressure from the planks overwhelmed everything. So thwarts are there really to push the planking outwards - had not realised till now.

 

I reworked the deck to make it look more proportioned and nice - photo bellow. Still needs work though

Regards

Vaddoc

Edited March 5, 2023 by vaddoc