1965 Ford Mustang by fnick - FINISHED - Revell - 1:24 - PLASTIC

[popeye the sailor]

looks good    I have a '60 Chevy Impala Hardtop kit that has decals like that and lots of chrome mouldings.   I wanted to do it as a '59,  but the tail lights are different and they don't supply them in the kit.   that would be my mother's car when I was a kid............she called her Agnes    my Dad had a black '60....funny story.......

 

we had a barn...I grew up on a small farm.  we as kids used to go up in the hay loft,  and my Dad threatened that if he caught us up there,  we'd spend the night up there.  well........he caught me up there and he made good on the threat.  that evening,  I was sent up there.......think I was 9 or so.........      there was lofts on the right and left,  and a ten foot area that joined the two side together.   down below,  was where Dad parked his car.  well sir,  we used the area in the center for old stuff we were not using any more...one being my old tricycle........all beat up from use and the pedals were gone.  all that was left were the center pegs that the pedals rotated on.  I decided to ride it,  to pass the time before I went to sleep.  it was fun for a while......until I was making a turn and one of the rear wheels went off the edge of the platform!  I didn't have time to catch myself,  and over I went..........right down on the hood of my father's car!  our impact put a huge dent in the hood!  I ended up on the floor........the trike was still on the car..........my Mother and Father came runn'in in!   Mom checked me out.........I was fine.........I wasn't hurt ......but after Dad pulled the trike off the hood,  he found that the pedal peg went through the hood,  and into the valve cover {it had an L6 engine}.   He was pretty ticked off......but it got buffered by my Mother giving him a piece of her mind     I ended up back in my own bed  

 

the next day,  we went to Currier's junk yard to buy a hood and valve cover.  this happened back in the mid '60's.  it was good that the car was there....if not,  I would have landed on the concrete floor! 

[fnick]

Hi all

 

Ready for the gloss coat.

 

 

2 coats on the bonnet went on fine.

 

 

However second coat on the body did this...☹️

 

 

Yep the dreaded orange peel effect... I am planning to sand the gloss back down anyway and polish it back up using Tamiya compounds. 

 

This is the bonnet after sanding and polishing.

 

Started with 3000 grit then 5000 and finally 7000. Think the 3000 started to take off the shiny part of the gloss paint slightly despite trying to sand very lightly so might just go with the 5k and 7k for the body. 

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[Egilman]

16 minutes ago, fnick said:

Yep the dreaded orange peel effect...

Yep spraying rattle can gloss coats has always been a roll of the dice with me also.....  most of the time they do fine, but sometimes they just will not laydown right.....

 

To be honest I still do not understand why it does that from time to time.... It happens cause the wet coat is drying too fast before it has a chance to level out... I think it has something to do with humidity, the air being too dry/warm but I've never been able to pin it down.... 

 

Polishing it down is the only solution I know other than completely redoing it.... in the real world using a spray gun I would spray just a little thicker/heavier, but in the scale world with a rattle can that's impossible as it leaves way too thick a finish when dry.... I agree with the idea of using the finer grits and don't try and take it all off..... Buff the whole thing lightly......  When you respray, use a fresh can of clear also, the old can might have gone bad.....

 

Except for that quarter panel, nice smooth job.... I'm sure it's nothing you did, it just happens sometimes....

 

[fnick]

2 hours ago, Egilman said:

I'm sure it's nothing you did

It must be. I sprayed the gloss on...😋🤪

 

Slightly annoying since the first coat went on fine and I gave it 24h to dry. The can is new so don't think that is the problem. Like you say it just happens. I'll try sanding the whole thing down gently and then decide if I want to add another coat or not. I might try and polish a small area to see how that turns out. I don't want to make the car body look glossier than the bonnet.

 

All an experience. All good fun! 🙂

 

Nick

[mtaylor]

If it were a Chevy of that time period, the orange peel would be accurate though out of scale.   On the serious side, the car is looking good.

[fnick]

1 hour ago, mtaylor said:

the orange peel would be accurate though out of scale. 

Well what did you expect? it's the first time i've inadvertently managed to do an orange peel effect! 😋

 

1 hour ago, mtaylor said:

On the serious side, the car is looking good.

On an equally serious note: thank you. Much appreciated! 😊

 

Nick

[CDW]

99% of your paint finish looks great, Nick. 

Generally speaking, orange peel happens when paint dries too quickly on the painted surface, not allowing it to level itself. Most often, this is caused by spraying with the can too far from the surface being painted. 

This can be a delicate balance as spray cans do not offer user control of the air pressure or paint volume. All you can really do is adjust your distance of the spray can in relation to the item being painted/sprayed. if it's too close, you will get runs in the paint. Too far away, orange peel. Practice, practice, practice. 🙂 

[fnick]

Erm... Didn't use spray cans for painting...🙂. Brush painted and gloss spray. But thank you for the tip since I am thinking of using spray paint for my next model.

 

Out of interest does the distance play a part in orange peel for gloss varnish too?

Nick

[CDW]

So, did you spray the clear coat with an airbrush? It looks to me the orange peel is in the clear coat, yes? Anyway, spraying with an airbrush can get the same orange peel issues if too far away from the target. Depending on whether you are using a single or double action airbrush, you may or may not have control of the flow. But too far away can cause issues, as well as too lose, just like a spray can. 

[Egilman]

23 minutes ago, fnick said:

Erm... Didn't use spray cans for painting...🙂. Brush painted and gloss spray. But thank you for the tip since I am thinking of using spray paint for my next model.

 

Out of interest does the distance play a part in orange peel for gloss varnish too?

Nick

Yes..... too close and you get too much cause the spray pattern doesn't have the time to spread before it lands, too far away and the droplets thicken/dry before they hit the surface. The trick as I'm sure you are aware is to get a wet surface without overspraying in any one spot..... There is no hard and fast rule.....

 

I have better results when I keep the can square to the surface and move it side to side making a complete square pass never changing the spray direction/angle... and spraying past the object your painting... Yes it's wasteful but you get a more consistent finish.... Also 8-10" away rather than the 12" the can recommends, fewer passes but more than one coat..... The good clear coatings handle this easy especially if your doing light buffing between coats...

 

With paint what I have learned is spraying flats and then overcoating with several thin coats of gloss gives better results than spraying gloss directly, Flat paint doesn't have the heavy carriers needed for the gloss part of the paint... That's a rule of thumb for me, I never spray gloss paints on a model unless I know it goes down thin......

 

Most of this is trial and error and then there is always the manufacturing process to remember, not all rattlecans are equal even from the same paint line or batch..... That's why some modelers call it spray and pray...

[fnick]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I clearly havent precise enough with my information so apologies! I used a spray can for the gloss varnish (I don't have an airbrush) but I am guessing from your comments that that won't make much difference. I am planning to finish sanding the gloss tonight. Next question is... If I can still see the orange peel should I respray anothet coat of gloss on the affected area or still carry on with polishing compounds to see if that solves the problem?

 

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

Nick

[Egilman]

15 minutes ago, fnick said:

Next question is... If I can still see the orange peel should I respray anothet coat of gloss on the affected area or still carry on with polishing compounds to see if that solves the problem?

You want to take as much of it as you can without sanding through to the paint, The idea is to remove as many of the divots and irregularities so the next coat can level itself over them.... When I do poly on a wood table surface, I apply thin coats successively with buffing in between.... the buffing knocks down the high spots... When the next thin coat goes on it fills the low spots and gets buffed down on the high spots.... Eventually, you build up the surface to where you have a mirror smooth finish on the entire surface... much like finishing real life autobodies... same process...... Fill, smooth, fill, smooth... that's what they are doing when you read about 27 coats of hand rubbed lacquer on a car body.....

 

It's a lot of work yes but the end result is spectacular....

[lmagna]

Well in my opinion you need not have changed the wording Nick. I personaqlly am STUNNED by the quality of your recovery. If you had not said anything no one would been able to tell that the "F" is home made!

Congradulations. I suspect that if it had been me I would have been stuck building an "ORD". 

[fnick]

Hi all

 

Thank very much to all who commented and pressed the like button.

 

So I sanded, polished and waxed the body and after much consideration decided I was happy enough with the result. Yes you can still see a bit of the orange peel if you look at it in the right light. However as I had sanded down to the paint in a few areas despite being super light I didn't want to risk more damage. 

 

I've also started on the metal trim around the windows. I am using the molotow chrome pens for this.  I'll let the pictures do the talking.

 

 

 

 

So overall I'm pretty pleased with how the car is turning out and I am gaining a lot of experience from doing it.

 

Cheers

 

Nick

[mtaylor]

Looks factory fresh to me.  I remember in the showrooms many times you couldn't get with 5 feet of one unless you showed them your bank account.  Though I do recall sitting in the driver's seat of a Ford GT (whatever the commercial name of the GT-40 was) for about 10 minutes once.   I knew the sales droid.

[popeye the sailor]

sweet look'in body.........good you got the clear coat sorted out.   I get the same thing sometimes..........spray cans have poor control.   how far away from the item is important,  but how fast you move is more important,  I think.  some rattle cans have adjustable nozzles........holding the can as upright as possible will insure a good spray.  when I'm going to use a can,  I will shake it periodically several times before using to insure mixing,  and warming the can will bring the paint to room temp.........a bowl of warm water will do the trick.   the same trick works well with compressed air cans too...if you use an airbrush with compressed air {the one I use can be used with these cans}.  I fitted it though,  so I can run it on a small compressor.  you might have had the can at an angle where the tube inside sucked up some of the gassed propellant....may have disrupted the spray.   there are time where a second light coat will lessen the effect.........but you arrived at a suitable solution that your satisfied with.....so all is good  

 

gonna be a sweet look'in body when you get some wheels under it!   

[fnick]

Hi all

 

So the good news first. Metal trim around the windows all done. As per usual not perfect but good enough.🙂

 

 

Now the bad news... Tried what I thought was a good method to make the clear parts look more like glass: dip them in gloss varnish. Yes I tried it out on a test part first. No I didn't wait long enough to see the result...(although I thought I had)☹️

 

 

For those who don't want to try this I used humbrol clear gloss. Not saying that is the reason this happened but... All I did before was clean the parts in warm soapy water and let them dry properly. 

 

My plan is to use 5k and 7k wet sandpaper to remove the whiteness and then use Tamiya polishing compounds followed by Tamiya polishing wax to hopefully get back to clear parts.

 

Please scream loudly now if you know this isn't going to work! 😁

 

Cheers 

Nick

[mtaylor]

I'm liking the paint job but not the windows.   I hope the sanding/polishing works out.

[popeye the sailor]

usually ,  no treatment at all would have been done to the glass.  I have never used a varnish on plastic models.  I hope you can correct this.........it is moisture / humidity.   varnishes are equal with lacquers when it comes to moisture...it doesn't react very well.  

[Canute]

I've seen where aircraft modelers dip canopies in Pledge. It's a glossy acrylic.

[Old Collingwood]

Wonder if the old tooth past on a cloth trick would do  (Lou)?

 

OC.

[Egilman]

4 hours ago, Canute said:

I've seen where aircraft modelers dip canopies in Pledge. It's a glossy acrylic.

Actually it is Pledge Acrylic Floor polish formerly known as Future Floor polish.... (pledge all by itself has a common appellation as a greasy, waxy furniture polish which my grandmother used on all the wood furniture)

 

Make sure it's the Acrylic floor finish.....

[Egilman]

8 hours ago, fnick said:

Please scream loudly now if you know this isn't going to work!

Not going to scream here, but I would suggest two things first before you go the polishing route...

 

Since it is an overcoat, try overcoating it with high gloss clear first. you can test this by wetting it, if the fogging disappears when wet, then it is a surface finish issue....

 

If that don't work, try removing it by soaking in Super Clean overnight to see if it takes it off....

 

Obviously the finish is fogged but it doesn't appear that the surface is crazed any...  I had similar happen once before and removed it with Super Clean. I believe what causes fogging is residue on the surface reacting with the varnish....

I would approach it that way and leave the polishing for last option.... understand that polishing at this point needs to be done over the entire surface, you have to remove all of the varnish....

 

Another learning moment.... 

 

EG

 

 

 

[fnick]

Hi all

 

Thank you all for the suggestions. After considering them I decided in the end to crack on with the sanding and polishing. (I also fired off an email at Revell asking for cost of replacement parts! 😀) The main reason for this is that I had seen a while ago on YouTube a video of someone cleaning up a windshield with this technique (

) and I was hopeful it would work for me.

Here is the result. So top to bottom,left to right :sanding with 1.5k,3k,5k,7k then polishing with coarse then fine Tamiya compounds and then a polish with Tamiya wax.

 

 So phew back where I had started. Yes it doesnt look like glass but then again it doesn't look like the inside of a milk bottle either!😋.

Having earned enough experience with clear parts for now I think it's best I leave it alone... 

 

Thank you all again for help and advice. Much appreciated.

 

Cheers, Nick

[Egilman]

I had no doubt that you could fix it that way. It's just a lot of work.... (I've never had to do it on model parts, but have on acrylic windscreens for bikes and display cases)

 

But I would dip it in Future, (Pledge Acrylic Floor Finish) to protect it from any further damage and level out any micro scratches that might remain.... That's what Future does it fills the tiny defects in the surface that tends to dull the look. It will look clearer in the end...

 

Good Recovery.... Well done

[Canute]

What EG said. Very nice recovery.

[fnick]

Thanks Egilman. Unfortunately I don't think I have the right pledge product I have a multipurpose floor polish which has a milky appearance but I have tried it on a test piece and it does appear to do the job but this time I will let it dry properly ☺️ before potentially using it on the windscreen!

 

Cheers Nick

[Jack12477]

Nick, you want to look for this

 

[lmagna]

It looks like you have the latest greatest type of bottle Jack. I think mine is two or three generations old now and has a blue and white label. Knowing Pledge they will change it again next week! Here is a dated paper on the product but it may still be useful especially to others outside of the US.

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

 

Just in case you may have wondered what OC was referring to with the toothpaste method, toothpaste makes a pretty good polishing compound. Here is a list of abrasiveness levels for several toothpaste brands.

 TOOTHPASTE RDA VALUES

(Relative Dentin Abrasivity) – Tooth Cutting Ability

Toothpaste makers regularly measure their product’s abrasivity. It’s necessary for FDA approval, and usually is not included in marketing. Abrasivity measurements are given by what’s known as an RDA value which stands for radioactive dentin abrasion or relative dentin abrasivity.

These are RDA values for common toothpaste: 0-70= low abrasive, 70-100= medium abrasive, 100-150= highly abrasive, 150-250= regarded as harmful limit.

The Mohs hardness of dentin is 2.5, the Mohs hardness of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) is 2.5. The RDA value of baking soda is 7. That means any toothpaste that has an RDA value higher than 7 has the potential to cut dentin. The Mohs hardness of toothbrush bristles is 2.5. Also, research shows that 50% of damage occurs in the first 20 s

RDA Values	Toothpaste Brand and Variety	Source
0	non-alcoholic mouthrinse (Biotene PBF(*Green Label), Act II Anticavity, Crest Pro-Health Complete, Oasis, Listerine Zero, Peridex, Peroxyl and water)	Church & Dwight
7	straight baking soda (The Arm & Hammer Yellow Box)
8	Arm & Hammer Tooth Powder	Church & Dwight
23	Biotene PBF Drymouth Toothpaste
25	Pronamel
30	KID’S TOOTH GEL STRAWBERRY-RASPBERRY (ph value: 7.0-7.5)	Lavera
30	Elmex Sensitive Plus	Elmex
42	Arm & Hammer Peroxicare Tartar Control	Church & Dwight
42	Arm & Hammer Advance White Baking Soda Peroxide	Church & Dwight
42	Arm & Hammer Peroxicare Regular	Church & Dwight
45	Oxyfresh
44-53	Squigle Enamel Saver
49	Arm & Hammer Peroxicare Tartar Control	Church & Dwight
49	Tom’s of Maine Sensitive (given as 40’s)	Tom’s
53	Rembrandt Original (RDA)	Rembrandt
53	CloSYS
57	Tom’s of Maine Children’s, Wintermint (given as mid-50’s)	Tom’s
60	Boiron Homeodent Natural Toothpaste-Lemon Flavor
62	Supersmile	Supersmile
62	Clinpro 5000 Fluoride Toothpaste
63	Rembrandt Mint (‘Heffernan RDA’)	Rembrandt
63	Biotene Regular
68	Colgate Regular	Colgate Palmolive
70	Colgate Total	Colgate Palmolive
70	Arm & Hammer Advance White Sensitive	Church & Dwight
70	Colgate 2-in-1 Fresh Mint (given as 50-70)	Colgate Palmolive
70-76	Squigle Tooth Builder
79	Sensodyne	Colgate Palmolive
80	AIM	Unilever
80	Close-Up	Unilever
83	Colgate Sensitive Maximum Strength	Colgate Palmolive
85	Biotene Sensitive
91	Aquafresh Sensitive	Colgate Palmolive
93	Tom’s of Maine Regular (given as high 80’s low 90’s)	Squigle (Tom’s)
94	Rembrandt Plus	Rembrandt
94	Plus White	Indiana Study
95	Kid’s Crest
95	Crest Regular (possibly 99)	P&G (P&G)
101	Natural White	Indiana Study
103	Mentadent	Squigle
104	Sensodyne Extra Whitening	Colgate Palmolive
104	Sensodyne Repair and Protect with Novamin (Purchased on Amazon.com)	GSK Pharmaceuticals
106	Colgate Platinum	Indiana Study
106	Arm & Hammer Advance White Paste	Church & Dwight
107	Crest Sensitivity Protection	Colgate Palmolive
110	Colgate Herbal	Colgate Palmolive
110	Amway Glister (given as upper boundary)	Patent US06174515
112	Prevident 5000 Booster
113	Aquafresh Whitening	Indiana Study
117	Arm & Hammer Advance White Gel	Church & Dwight
120	Close-Up with Baking Soda (canadian)	Unilever
124	Colgate Whitening	Indiana Study
130	Crest Extra Whitening with Scope	Indiana Study
130	Crest Pro-Health with Scope (Crest for Me)	Burt’s Bees, Inc.
133	Ultra brite (or 120-140)	Colgate Palmolive
144	Crest MultiCare Whitening	P&G
145	Ultra brite Advanced Whitening Formula	P&G
150	Pepsodent (given as upper bound)	Unilever
165	Colgate Tartar Control (given as 155-165)	Colgate Palmolive
189	Crest Pro-Health	P&G
200	Colgate 2-in-1 Tartar Control/Whitening or Icy Blast/Whitening (given as 190-200)	Colgate Palmolive
200	recommended limit	FDA
250	recommended limit	ADA

 

Using water and a very soft cloth you can do some amazing polishing. You are more limited by the cloth than the compound. Follow up by DIPPING the windshield in future and you will be amazed at the results.

 

I know, a little late but possibly for future use.

 

Great job on what you already did. Great recovery.

 

 

[Egilman]

On 9/2/2020 at 4:46 AM, fnick said:

I have a multipurpose floor polish which has a milky appearance

Yep I've used it on furniture finishes, it's latex polyurethane floor finish, made for sealing hardwood floors.... Almost as tough as future and just as effective, but goes down a hair thicker....

 

It's my backup if I can't find any Future.....