HMS Sphinx 1775 by Glenn-UK - Vanguard Models - 1:64

[Blue Ensign]

I would certainly appreciate knowing your technique for char removal Chuck, post it on my log if you wish, also for the benefit of other Sphinx builders.

 

B.E.

[Chuck]

It depends on the pieces to be cleaned…I would certainly post an image from this log of say the hair brackets but that might upset some folks….the methods for those are very different then those use to clean the char entirely from thicker and wider pieces. 
 

for example….the two halves of the belfry roof below.  That needed a completely different approach than cleaning the char from thin molding.  But as you can see from the photo it is very possible to remove the char almost completely even from the corners on the roof.  But I spent 50 minutes and maybe longer cleaning the char from those two halves of the roof.  It takes time.  Not everyone is willing to do that and its fine.  

 

So before you work on a piece in your log,  just pose the question if you want to and I will do my best to make suggestions.

 

You are working on the gun carriages now.  They are tiny.  Attempts to sand the steps along the tops of the carriages usually round them off.  Painting them red without removing the char wont work because red is very transparent and it will show.  So i would do something very different which many might find odd but it works for me.  
 

it requires very little sanding actually.  I have to pack up my orders for the post office and do some morning clerical stuff but I would be glad to show you how I do it on small pieces that would eventually be painted red. Sorry about using your image.

 

If folks just want “attaboys” in their log thats fine.  But it also takes a lot of time to read all these logs and reply with what I would like to think is helpful advice.  I will have to do some set up and take some pictures of some gun carriages to show you….it might be later on.  But I hope at least a few folks will appreciate that time spent and discuss its merits.  This will take some time but I am more than willing to do it.  I will post it in your log.
 

[paul carruthers]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

I was hopeful that because this log by your own account was going to serve as a teaching tool that we could really make it a teaching tool. The char can absolutely be removed from most pieces.  There are techniques and methods to accomplish this.  

I thought you wanted to improve things on your second attempt especially after spending my guess is $1800 on Sphinx up to this point …
 

I thought this would prompt questions of “This part is fragile, how can I safely remove the char”.   Then we can discuss the methods. 
 

I think the group would like to know how to do so.  But its fine I will refrain from posting or encouraging you to try.  Its fine if you want to simply “assemble” your second attempt as well.  Its just a hobby.  I just thought you wanted to do more the second time around.

 

The laser does not leave a smooth surface at all.  If you look closely at the cut edge you will see rough lines where the laser cuts through the wood.  Smoothing these out greatly enhances the finish even after painting them black.

 

Black has a tendency to reflect the light in a way that actually makes these laser cut marks more noticeable.  Especially if a shinier finish is applied afterwards which I would try to avoid if no attempt to clean the char is made before painting.

 

If you decide you want to try a technique to do so please dont hesitate to ask.

I’m asking, please can you advise, it may obviously be a new post or a private message to myself,thank you.

Edited October 29, 2021 by paul carruthers
Clarification

[Glenn-UK]

I know I am not the best builder but I'm always striving to improve and I'm always trying to build better models. I generally remove laser char from visible edges as I have detailed in plenty of my build log posts. With the next Sphinx build I will be removing the char from the channel knees despite them being partly hidden by the rigging. I would dread to think what would have happened for example if I tried to remove the char from the top edges of the very fragile Sphinx rails with my ham-fisted hands, but it something I can reconsidered.

 

I know I need to take more time and care, but for some reason this is something I find hard to do. I can refer back to several work appraisals over my 36 year working life which all said "needs to take more care to eliminate silly mistakes". I can only conclude that despite my best efforts and intentions making silly mistake is simply part of who I am. I also have a very competitive nature, as a runner these days and as a squash player in my younger days playing in the biggest league in Europe. This may explain my need to race on at times with the build when I know I need to slow down and take more time.

 

I have the basic modelling skills and I am slowly getting better and learning more skills with each new build.

 

As an avid supporter of Vanguard Models (I have bought 5 kits so far)  I fully accept that this build log should also be used as a showcase for Vanguard Models as these are the best kits on the market in my opinion so it is not a good idea to show or highlight or show build errors.

 

Rant Over

 

[Gregory]

I don't want to clutter up your build log unnecessarily,  but having had a lot of trial and error laser cutting and finishing my own parts, I have the scrap bin to prove it..  I might have a tip or two in this regard. 

 

Let me know if I can help, or I can start a new topic.

[Jasseji]

Guys really, let's Calm down.

 

@Chuck's comments and tips are valuable but they might come down as bit harsh, especially when they are written on a forum which sometimes doesnt properly convey the poster's intentions...

 

So, Please tell us your Char-removal technique, i am curious.

 

And honestly everyone, it's a hobby, i know @James H that we should thrive for perfection but for some of us there is a sanity-limit as well as a time limit on how much we can dedicate for it.

 

I believe @glennard2523 conciously rushed the further steps after having reslised that he has made an unrecoverable mistake.

 

So please, let the comments flow

[James H]

56 minutes ago, Jasseji said:

Guys really, let's Calm down.

 

@Chuck's comments and tips are valuable but they might come down as bit harsh, especially when they are written on a forum which sometimes doesnt properly convey the poster's intentions...

 

So, Please tell us your Char-removal technique, i am curious.

 

And honestly everyone, it's a hobby, i know @James H that we should thrive for perfection but for some of us there is a sanity-limit as well as a time limit on how much we can dedicate for it.

 

I believe @glennard2523 conciously rushed the further steps after having reslised that he has made an unrecoverable mistake.

 

So please, let the comments flow

 

Nope, I'm not thriving for a level I can never achieve, and nowhere have I ever stated that.....ever. My aim is to do the very best I can and not to cut corners if it can be helped. That's just making the most of our own skills and learning some new ones to better the outcome. 

 

For char removal, I use a combo of sanding sticks, sanding sponges and a 6inch steel rule with 400 grade paper wrapped around it. 

 

For the record, I don't think anyone needs to calm down. I can't see anyone getting angry at the moment. Just crack on with your builds!

[DelF]

For me, the bottom line is that once someone has bought a kit it's entirely up to them what they do with it.

 

Speaking purely personally, when people like Chris Watton and Chuck Passaro put so much effort into designing great products I feel a duty to put my own effort in and build them as well as I can.

 

Glenn - I've always enjoyed reading your logs and picking up tips from them, and I know from our correspondence that you're always seeking to improve. However on the subject of running:

 

2 hours ago, glennard2523 said:

I also have a very competitive nature, as a runner these days

I used to be a competitive runner as well Glenn. However I read elsewhere that you're a sprinter, while I ran marathons. Slow and competitive works too! 😉

 

Derek

[Gregory]

Just a quick tip before moving on; consider laying the piece ( particularly thin pieces )  to be sanded on a flat surface  rather than trying to hold it..

If this is hard to visualize I will try to post pic or video later..

[Glenn-UK]

6 minutes ago, DelF said:

I used to be a competitive runner as well Glenn. However I read elsewhere that you're a sprinter, while I ran marathons. Slow and competitive works too! 😉

 

Derek

@DelF I am a ukA qualified coach. I have run marathons, half marathons, 10 miles, 10k and 5k races. I did track and field for the first time this summer. These days I'm more focused on parkruns and 10k's. I picked up too many injuries for the longer distances which is why I've stopped doing them for now.

[glbarlow]

3 hours ago, Chuck said:

.  This will take some time but I am more than willing to do it.  I will post it in your log.

I’d love to have it on my log. I work hard at removal but always concerned about removing too much wood. I appreciate you’re taking the time and along with BE would appreciate the value add on my log. 

[glbarlow]

4 hours ago, myxyzptlyk2003 said:

char will still show through black, I completely disagree with that. 

I said any color OTHER than black, which is true. 

[glbarlow]

4 hours ago, myxyzptlyk2003 said:

waste time removing char from areas where it will never show?

Not removing char also leaves a rough and ragged, unfinished surface whatever color you paint it. 

[Jasseji]

25 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I’d love to have it on my log. I work hard at removal but always concerned about removing too much wood. I appreciate you’re taking the time and along with BE would appreciate the value add on my log. 

Yes, Please do, if you have some twchnique of Re oval without sanding away too much it Would be greatly appreciated

[myxyzptlyk2003]

51 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Not removing char also leaves a rough and ragged, unfinished surface whatever color you paint it. 

While I don't remove all the char on places that it won't show like under black paint, I do lightly sand the pieces smooth.    Almost all the time you can get it pretty smooth but there is a significant amount of char left.        With this kit there are a fair amount of pieces that are very fragile.  I think I just looked at the galley frame and it broke.    It would be interesting to know how char is removed from those very fragile pieces.      (And that type of removal should not be classified as a very basic skill!)

[glbarlow]

4 hours ago, Jasseji said:

as well as a time limit on how much we can dedicate for it.

Ok, build slower and take longer not build faster to finish sooner, I think that’s the message. 

[Glenn-UK]

Please remember this is a prototype build and I will be building another Sphinx kit to a much higher standard🤞

 

Moving on from the "laserchargate" debacle I have now completed adding the deadeye & chainplate assembly to the left-hand side (port). Yes the knees still have laser char and yes I have not painted the brass pins black. IT DOES NOT MATTER to me as this model is a prototype build.

 

Before fitting the deadeyes to the strops I did run a micro drill through the deadeyes to slightly enlarge the holes to aid the rigging process. Next the strops were opened using my round nose pliers and once the deadeye was aligned in the strop (with two holes at the top) they were tighten around the deadeye. As each strop and deadeye assembly was completed I inserted into a channel slot, in accordance with the plan sheet. Once all the strops/ deadeye were in the channels the upper and middle chainplate links were added.

 

 

 

 

 

Using a suitably sized micro drill bit holes were drilled for the brass pins for the middle chainplate links.

 

!!!!!Laser Char Alert!!!!!!

 

The chainplate preventer links for 5mm deadeyes /strop assembly were added at this stage as the brass pins were inserted into the hull to secure the links in place. I chose not to use any glue but I will use CA gel on the brass pins when I repeat this process on the next build to keep the brass pins in place. Please note I did shorten the brass pins by cutting the ends off before they were inserted.

 

Yes I know the right hand middle link in the photo below is the wrong way round (Or it is the right way round and the other three are the wrong way round).

 

 

All done

 

I can now start work on adding the various parts to the inner hull, which is something I am looking forward to, although the first task of adding the various eyebolts and rings to the cabin floor and bulwarks will be a tad tedious.

Edited October 30, 2021 by glennard2523

[Jasseji]

indeed, adding all those parts inside the hull is something i am looking forward to at most (and i am actually lokking forward to the rigging as well, cant wait until i get to that step)

[Glenn-UK]

1 minute ago, Jasseji said:

indeed, adding all those parts inside the hull is something i am looking forward to at most (and i am actually lokking forward to the rigging as well, cant wait until i get to that step)

@Jasseji I really like rigging the ratlines😁as I find tying hundreds of glove hitch knots quite therapeutic. Thankfully I have already pre built quite a lot of the deck furniture so hopefully it will not be too time consuming. Also the V2 sphinx kit is due to be shipped in the next few days.

[Glenn-UK]

I decided to build the two hand pumps today. The process described below applies to both hand pump assemblies.

 

I cut a 89mm length of 4mm dowel and checked it would pass through the locating holes on the two decks. Two small holes were then drilled in the dowel for the hand pump handle, one in the top of the dowel and one on the side. I found it necessary to run a micro drill through the locating holes on the hand pump handle and side brackets so the brass pins would pass through. A touch of ca gel was applied to one side of the hand pump handle and the first side bracket was positioned and press in place, using the brass pins to ensure it was correctly aligned. A touch of ca gel was then applied to the other side of the hand pump handle and the other side bracket could be added. A small amount of ca gel was added to the shaft of the two brass pins and they were then fully inserted. The excess brass pin material was removed using my straight edge (cuticle)  side cutters.

 

The hand pump assembly was then painted black along with the hand pump end cap. A small amount of ca gel was added to the top of the dowel and the hand pump end cap was then attached. A small amount of ga gel was applied to the edge of the hand pump assembly (the edge which makes contact with the dowel) and it was then fitted in place.

 

Photo of the two completed hand pumps dry fitted to the hull assembly

 

I removed the various eyebolts and rings for the gun ports and deck. The parts were thoroughly cleaned in acetone and soapy water before being blackened. This photo shows the iron work ready to be cleaned.

 

The two Forward Gun Deck Cabin Bulkhead parts were glued together using titebond and clamped. The process was repeated for the two Forward Gun Deck Screen Bulkhead and the two Aft Gun Deck Cabin bulkheads. The side edges of the Forward and Aft Gun Deck Cabin Bulkheads both required a little bit of trimming before they would fit.

 

The photo below shows the bulkheads loosely dry fitted. They need to be removed so the hinges, door knobs, window panes and frames can be added. I also need to add the check the fit with the deck beams. The window frames have been been cleaned and had primer added. I have not yet decided on the final colour but may opt for white as per the other window frames.

 

I also started to fit the eyebolts and rings

 

Hopefully I can complete the work on the cabin bulkheads and ironwork over the next day or two. Given I have already prebuilt the majority of the deck items I think I can make some good progress over the next few days which is good news as I have just received notification that the V2 Sphinx kit is expected to be delivered on Tuesday by UPS.

[Glenn-UK]

I have completed the task of fitting the cabin bulkhead assemblies. I need to rethink this task when I redo this on the V2 kit build

 

The instructions state "Glue the corresponding parts together using wood glue and clamp all the way around so the parts can’t curl. It’s important to make sure that everything is aligned properly" As soon as I applied the titebond the bulkheads started to curl. I clamped the assemblies as shown in the build manual, however once I removed the clamps all three bulkhead assemblies were curled. I dampened the bulkheads and clamped them against a flat surface overnight. The bulkheads were still curled once the clamps were removed. I tried clamping the bulkheads again once the window panes and frames were fitted. The window panes and frames were secured in place using acrylic varnish, as per the build instruction recommendation. Next time around I need to get the window panes better positioned so there is room for the frames to be located within the openings both back and front.

 

The two deck beams to which the bulkheads are glued to were added. I had to modify the aft screen deck beam (beam m) slightly to make it fit.

 

The fore and aft bulkheads were straightened when fitted as the two bottom tabs and clamping to the upper deck beam sorted the curling issue. The screen bulkhead is still curled however, and probably needs a couple of thin planks fixed to each end to cure the curl. The Cabin Bulkhead Infill Patterns are still be to be fitted.

 

I added a 6mm dowel to check the mizzen mast could be fitted.

 

I also checked the Mizzen Mast Base fitting noting the elongated hole needs to run from bow to stern as can be seen in the next photo.

 

The curling of the screen bulkhead can be seen clearly in the photo below. I could probably fettle it with some support strips, but I'm not sure if it is worth the effort given this is a prototype build and most of this area is covered by the upper deck. One of the forward window frames seems to have come loose (2nd one on right hand side) so will need to be moved back.

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by glennard2523

[Jasseji]

Thank you for bringing this up, i have noticed this with the Main Wale liner already, although in that case for me it was enough to brush some water over the whole shape and it warped back as it should (but the wale is thicker than the Cabin Bulkheads).

 

I will use CA for that i think

[Glenn-UK]

Just a quick update, the bulkhead screen which was curled has now been straightened with an "invisible mend" I used a thin plank glued to the deck keep the bulkhead screen straight along its length. Looks much better now.

 

 

I have started to fit the side infill parts. On the next build I think I might change the sequence and fit the infills to the aft bulkhead before fitting the forward bulkhead so there is a bit more room to play with. I need to get my brush out to dust away the unwanted particles, which can be seen in the photo below.

 

 

I received a very nice delivery from UPS this morning. Yes the V2 kit has arrived.

 

 

My plan with the V2 Sphinx kit build is to:

 

a) take my time, making sure I am totally happy with everything before parts are finally assembled

b) try to be much more careful with this build, my aim is to significantly reduce the number of silly mistakes I normally make

c) try out some different ideas to improve my building skills, using the additional spare parts I've ordered

d) take note of the lessons learnt so far with my current build, which has become a practice build

e) to have fun and to enjoy the V2 Sphinx kit build and to start and keep a build log charting my progress.

 

 

 

[Glenn-UK]

Before moving on to fit the deck furniture I thought a bit of forward planning would be a good idea. Therefore I decided to dry fit the quarter deck beams. Before each beam was fitted I removed the majority of the laser char from the top edge, using a flory sanding stick. It was very useful to have the various quarter deck beams laser etched with a letter to correspond with the lettering on the Quarterdeck Beam Spacing Patterns. The beams required a very minor bit of sanding at the edges (basically removing the laser char and adding a slightly angle to follow the hull shape to ensure a good fit. The 2 x Quarterdeck Beam Carlings, 2 x Quarterdeck Carling Beams (Mizzen Mast) and the 4 x Quarterdeck Carling Beams – Coaming were also dry fitted.

 

I can now go ahead start fitting the various items, that I have pre built, to the deck. I am showing extreme patience and not starting work on the V2 sphinx kit just yet.

 

I will need to remove the laser char from the visible ends as well as a final clean up sand on the tops of the quarter deck support beams.

 

 

 

[Glenn-UK]

I have been working on fitting the deck items today and it is starting to bring the deck to life.

 

I started with the coaming  which were glued in place. Next I added the two ladders.

 

The capstan was painted red and placed on the deck.

 

Next I moved on to the chain pump arrangement. The first task was to bend the 4 off chain pump handle stanchion cappings (2 aft and 2 fore) and to drill a hole for the locating pin in each stanchion. The cross beam and eyebolts were added to the two main jeer bitts, ensuring the laser char was removed from the visible edges.

 

I had already fully assembled the two Chain Pump's so I then checked that the main mast would fit, including the main mast base. The two hand pumps were also added, which had been pre built.

 

Working my way toward the bow the main topsail sheet bitts and gallows assembly was completed with the addition of the cross beam, panelling and eyebolts.

 

With all the chain pumps items in place the chain pump handle bars were fitted. They need to be painted black as do the cappings and eyebolts.

 

The chain pump assembly is only dry fitted at the moment but as everything seems to fit together as designed I can go ahead and glue everything in place.

 

 

 

 

I have also added the PE parts to the previously built stove assembly. The instruction manual requires 1mm brass rod to be used for the chain pully. I started with this but found chain pulley holes were to small. Initially I did use a microdrill to try to open the holes but this created a new set of problems with distorting the PE chain pully as the drill was rotated. In the end I used a brass rod from my collection which seemed a perfect fit. I am now in the process of painting the assembled stove black. I have ordered some brick red paint and light grey wash so I can try to get the stove base painted as per the build instructions. Photos to follow in due course.

 

 

[yvesvidal]

Beautiful bilge pumps and cranks. Man, you are brave to attempt another one of these builds.... This one is actually very nice.

 

Yves

[Glenn-UK]

3 minutes ago, yvesvidal said:

Beautiful bilge pumps and cranks. Man, you are brave to attempt another one of these builds.... This one is actually very nice.

 

Yves

Many thanks Yves, it does not look too bad when viewed at certain angles but I know I can do so much better so I'm keen to have another go at this magnificent design.

[Glenn-UK]

I have had a couple of quite days in the shipyard so not too much to report  (as if🤣). Here are a few pictures of the current state of play.

 

As you can see all the deck items have been added, I just need to run some 0.5mm natural thread through stanchions surrounding two coamings. I have also started to add the quarterdeck beams.

 

The stern area.

 

Midships

 

Bow area. The stove chimney is only dry fitted, as it is fitted once the upper deck  has been installed. I also need to work on the grey wash on the stove base method. I painted the pattern brick red, coated it with an acyclic varnish and then used a light grey wash which flowed nicely in the lines. However when I used a cotton bud to remove the excess wash, the excess wash remained on the base.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by glennard2523

[Glenn-UK]

Today I have been working in fitting the quarterdeck beams, which was a fairly easy task to complete. Once the beams were in place the pattern for the leading quarterdeck beam was added.

 

The leading beam pattern has been glued and clamped in place

 

All the quarterdeck beams are glued in place.

 

I did add the thread around the coaming openings as can be seen in this photo

 

I have also started work on the forecastle beams. The laser char has been removed from the beams, I will also remove the char from the longitudinal locking beams. Before the beams are glued in place I will feed the anchor rope through the their respective holes, hopefully this will be a fairly straightforward task. I will also need to sand the bowsprit opening, as necessary so the 8mm dowel can be located.

 

 

[Glenn-UK]

The first task today was to install the anchor cable into position. This has to be fed through the hawse hole to the inner pair of bulkhead holes. I used a brass rod which I shaped so it would go through the two holes. I put a touch of ca gel on the end of the anchor rope and then pushed the brass rod into the end. It was then a very easy task to feed the rope through the two holes. Once both cables were installed I added a knot to ensure the cable would remain in place.

 

This picture shows the first anchor rope in position with the brass rod still in place.

 

The next picture shows both anchor cables in position with the knots in place.

 

A view of the cable in hawse holes. The anchor cable was fed through the holes nearest the bowsprit

 

The next task was to check if the 8mm bowsprit dowel would fit. I started this task by rotating (by hand) a 7mm, then a 7.5mm and finally an 8mm drill bit. I then used my large round file to gently file the opening a tad bit more.

 

This picture shows the dowel in place through the two angled holes

 

This picture shows the Sphinx fitted with the Mizzen, Main, and Fore mast dowels on place along with the bowsprit dowel. I have also sanded the laser char from all the forecastle beams which have now been glued in place.

 

The forecastle deck pattern was then dry fitted. The edges did not require too much sanding to get a good fit.

 

To ensure the forecastle deck properly positioned during the sanding process you will note that the bitts, mast and stove chimney were positioned as the deck was added to the deck. The deck is only dry fitted at the moment.

 

 

I repeat the process with the quarterdeck pattern, using the mizzen mast and capstan dowel to aid the correct alignment of the quarterdeck deck

 

 

Finally a picture of the Sphinx with the decks in place along with all the masts and bowsprit.

Edited November 7, 2021 by glennard2523