Flower-Class Corvette by king derelict - FINISHED - Bensworx Virtual Kit - 1/48 - a log for the less gifted

[king derelict]

Hi everyone

I have had a log term interest in the Flower Class corvettes; ever since first reading the Cruel Sea as a teenager. I have also had a growing interest in 3D printers. Seeing Yves log start building a Flower Class corvette using the Creality Ender 3 printer seemed to bring it all together so I ordered a printer, downloaded the Bensworx virtual kit, bought some filament and set off on the adventure seeing myself knocking out flawless parts one after the other. Unfortunately it hasn't quite gone like that. I think I have the printer assembled correctly but getting a print is proving problematical. I got a good test print from the Creality files first shot and then started the hull sections of the corvette.

This will probably be a slow log because of the physical time to print each piece and then the time taken trying to work through the failures to get a good result. I hope the log might show the problems of someone perhaps less skilled trying to use a 3D printer to make this model and with luck maybe learn some techniques and produce a model. 

I have two younger colleagues who both have Creality Ender 3 / Pro printers and their results are also mixed. They are both skilled modeller and artificers, one a precision machinist working on racing motorcycles so they are not completely hammer thumbed but still do not have predictable results with failure to get the print to stick being a frequent problem. It seems that there is a lot to learn.

So to the corvette.

 

I made nine attempts to get the first hull section to print without success. In each case the initial layers failed to adhere to the build plate and the result was a mess of string. I tried a variety of increasing base temperatures, higher nozzle temperatures and slower build speed. I level and clean the base plate between attempts and I let the pre heat temperatures have time to soak up the base plate. Eventually I added a brim and with a slow initial speed I was able to get a decent print although it leaves me with the need to cut away the brim carefully to get a clean interface with the next section.

 

Initial attempts to slice the file for hull section 2 wouldn't allow a skirt or a brim to be added; I assume because the size of the print does not have enough space around it to allow the extra area. I made fourteen attempts to print the hull section all resulting in failed bed adhesion. The bed was levelled between attempts and it is a little disturbing that it is necessary to adjust between attempts rather than just check. Somehow the bed drifts out of level after some very limited running and that may be the problem in essence. Each attempt was run with changes to print speed (which seemed to help) down to 20%, nozzle temperature up to 215C (which didn't) and bed temperature up to 70C which may have helped a little. Within three passes the nozzle was dragging a mess of detached plastic around and the print was stopped.

I went back to Cura and found there was enough room on the bed to allow a 4cm brim (default 10) and this is creating a print as I write. I started the print with a speed of 30% of file speed and then returned it to 100% after the brim was complete, This seems to be progressing.

I think Hull section 3 is a larger section so it may not allow any brim in which case another solution will have to be found.

 

I have some glue sticks ordered that may help

I am going to try using shim stock instead of paper for the levelling

I am thinking of installing the spare nozzle in case the nozzle is not feeding a consistent filament to the bed

I am going to order a new glass plate and more nozzles from Creality

 

I have heard some suggestions of quality variation in the manufacture so the final thought may be to decide how badly I want to complete this project and buy another machine and discard this one as unusable. The changes in level settings after only a few passes of the print doesn't seem to be an indication of consistent quality and I think Yves has noted he hasn't had to change his since initial levelling.

 

Thanks for looking in and I welcome any comments and advice as this (hopefully) progresses. It looks like being an interesting journey

 

Alan

 

Alan

 

[CDW]

One inexpensive change you can make is to use a mirror instead of the glass bed that came with your machine. Mirror glass is much flatter and less likely to be deformed.

Also, cannot emphasize enough how much difference a build pad can make. Like this for instance: 3D Printer Magnetic?Hot Bed Sticker Pads for Ender-3 Build Surface 235 X 235 MM | eBay

 

[mtaylor]

You mention the bed going out of level during use.  I know zip about this tech but for the bed level.... what sets the level?  Screws?  I'd assume (or at least hope) the was some locking method like lock nuts or similar.

[king derelict]

4 hours ago, mtaylor said:

You mention the bed going out of level during use.  I know zip about this tech but for the bed level.... what sets the level?  Screws?  I'd assume (or at least hope) the was some locking method like lock nuts or similar.

Hi Mark

Its set by screws tensioned by springs, one at each corner. The springs feel quite weak and there is quite a lot of backlash so screw a quarter turn to close the gap and it takes nearly a turn to get back to where you were. This may be the quality variation I mentioned. Researching on line suggests this can be a problem area for levelling so I have sent off for a set of springs with a higher stiffness. That supposedly improves repeatability and seems reasonable to me so I made the $6 investment.

Thanks

Alan

 

[king derelict]

6 hours ago, CDW said:

One inexpensive change you can make is to use a mirror instead of the glass bed that came with your machine. Mirror glass is much flatter and less likely to be deformed.

Also, cannot emphasize enough how much difference a build pad can make. Like this for instance: 3D Printer Magnetic?Hot Bed Sticker Pads for Ender-3 Build Surface 235 X 235 MM | eBay

 

Thanks for the advice Craig

The treated glass that comes with the V2 has a smooth side so I am thinking of flipping it and trying it. Who knows I may have a sticking problem. 

I took your advice and bought the magnetic pad you suggested. Many Thanks. I would really like to get the reliability of printing improved. Its spoiling the fun at the moment.

Thanks again

Alan

[CDW]

Just now, king derelict said:

Thanks for the advice Craig

The treated glass that comes with the V2 has a smooth side so I am thinking of flipping it and trying it. Who knows I may have a sticking problem. 

I took your advice and bought the magnetic pad you suggested. Many Thanks. I would really like to get the reliability of printing improved. Its spoiling the fun at the moment.

Thanks again

Alan

Alan

 

I should have mentioned to be sure to buy one that matched your print bed size/range. Once I started using that pad, it solved my issue of the print coming off the print plate. I tried glue sticks, hair spray, and just about everything else, to no avail. One day I visited a 3D print shop here in Tampa and they turned me on to the need for a pad. That did the trick.

Hate to say it in fear I may jinx you, but filament coming off the spool smoothly is another area of failure. Several times I had issues where the filament would get hung up, similar to what happens on a fishing reel...a bird's nest backlash sort of thing. We have to trust the filament has been wound onto the spool from the factory so as to not be "crossed". I think it's very easy to accidentally get the filament out of sorts when you finish one print job and use the same spool to start another print. Unless great care is taken, that filament can become wound underneath itself and as a print job progresses, it comes to a point where it can no longer come off the spool.

[king derelict]

Thanks Craig.

I bought the Creality pad and it should be a direct fit to the heating plate. The filament feed is a concern on the long jobs when you canine watching full time

Alan

[yvesvidal]

Alan,

 

I am pleased to see that you started this Build Log and went full ahead with the building of this 3D printed model. I am also sad that you ran into so many frustrations with this printer.

 

My first attempt was with the QIDI IMate S printer which was a pure disaster at $500. It printed for exactly 1 hour and 30 minutes and stopped forever, feeding the filament. This unit was quickly returned to Amazon and I went with the Creality Ender-3 V2. After the initial debacle (QIDI), the little Ender-3 was a breath of fresh air. I suspect, I may have been lucky as I have not touched the levelling since day one.

 

Have you tried printing a piece of deck? That should stick very well to your bed.

 

Yves

[king derelict]

Thank Yves

I hope this log might compliment yours and also present some of the bumps in the road that I found and you missed. I'm beginning to think the levelling springs are an area where there is variation between machines.

Even with all the initial problems I am grateful that you recommended the Ender 3 v2. In spite of the grumbles both my colleagues are excited by what can be done with a machine at that price point. 

Alan

 

[king derelict]

Hull section 2 with a narrow brim successfully completed printing last night. There are a few fuzzy bits on the weld lines but I think they will sand off without too much trouble, I turned the nozzle temperature down from 210 to 200 for the last half of the print and that seemed to clean up the print and as it did nothing for the bed adhesion I will revert to 200 in the future.

 

Its been an interesting day for tinkering with the machine. The new springs arrived this afternoon and are both stiffer and better made with machined ends that hopefully will not move around during use and adjustment. It was a quick job to fit them. The new ones are the golden one on the right

And installed

There is a much better resistance to the levelling wheels now and it feels as if a lot of play has been removed.

I watched a YouTube video with what looks like a very rational approach to levelling. I hope its acceptable to post it.

After setting the nozzle gap with paper as seems common the author provides a test piece to print and then adjustments are made relative to the test piece results rather than the paper gap setting. The test piece showed a problem with the front left corner having too large a gap and a minor one at front and right. These have been the problem areas throughout with bed adhesion so it was interesting to see a potential explanation. I made very small changes to teh front wheels and the third print was successful.

Tomorrow I will find out if this translates into an easier time with hull section #3 but for now I'm quite excited to feel I maight have progressed a little.

Thanks for looking

Alan

[CDW]

Those new springs will help a lot I think.

[Old Collingwood]

Very nice work mate, its a  completley new science to me  - so I will just  follow on with an open mouth in amazed-ment  of how thease  3d printing  voo doo  works.

 

OC.

[yvesvidal]

Wonderful Alan, I think you are now on good tracks. Do not touch the leveling wheels anymore, if you are happy with their settings.

 

Consumption: 

 

- One spool gave me sections 1,2,3,7,8,9B and 9T.

- Another spool gave me sections 4,5,6

- There was some spare on both.

- I think the kit can be entirely printed with 3 spools ($69). You may need a little extra for the brims and it is not even sure.

 

Yves

[king derelict]

13 hours ago, yvesvidal said:

Wonderful Alan, I think you are now on good tracks. Do not touch the leveling wheels anymore, if you are happy with their settings.

 

Consumption: 

 

- One spool gave me sections 1,2,3,7,8,9B and 9T.

- Another spool gave me sections 4,5,6

- There was some spare on both.

- I think the kit can be entirely printed with 3 spools ($69). You may need a little extra for the brims and it is not even sure.

 

Yves

Thanks Yves

Unfortunately the euphoria didn't last. I'm on my sixth attempt to print hull section three. All attempts without a brim wouldn't stick and although the Creality slicer allowed a skirt the skirt was actually off the print bed so it created its own tangle of filament. 

I'm on my second attempt with a narrow brim. The first attempt somehow picked up the brim and folded it across the rest of the print. I'm trying again with the speed dialled down to 60% and so far it looks like it might work. I ran the test print between attempts and it is still good. It is all a bit confusing.

I went back to the Cura slicer. It seems very similar to the Creality version but it seems to be better about not allowing print off the edge of teh bed. I also notice that the prints are not centered on the bed but biased to the left. I'm not sure that is normal but if there are any hull sections wider than section 3 I think it might be an embarrassment.

Thanks for the usage figures. I'll have to include my spaghetti balls and factor up a little.

Alan

[yvesvidal]

Alan,

 

Just in case that may provide you with some info, here are the profiles I am using: 

 

 

 

Have you tried printing a section of deck? How about HULL #9 T (top) ?

 

Yves

Edited August 4, 2021 by yvesvidal

[king derelict]

12 hours ago, yvesvidal said:

Alan,

 

Just in case that may provide you with some info, here are the profiles I am using: 

 

 

 

Have you tried printing a section of deck? How about HULL #9 T (top) ?

 

Yves

Thanks Yves

That's close to what I'm using although I have the bed at 65C. I haven't tried a deck piece yet. I'm trying to tough it out with the hull sections.

😄

Alan

 

[king derelict]

In spite of getting a good test result from the levelling technique mentioned earlier it took a stunning 23 attempts to get a print to establish on the bed. My new found knowledge from the leveling exercise did allow me to understand that the front right corner was not perfectly level and  was resulting in the print lifting or the nozzle ploughing the print. The movement of the adjusting screw from too much gap to too little seems to be less than 1/4 turn of the screw. So each attempt was made with the front right screw being tweaked a small amount and the print started. again and the initial layers observed to see how they are laying down. I suspect that these hull prints which use the full scope of the bed are much more sensitive to leveling issues than a small print in the centre of the bed.

I thought I had a good print initiated but returning after an hour I found the front right part had lifted from the bed and been moved by teh nozzle and a distorted print was resulting.

 

At 1am I managed to get a clean looking start to the print and it is now in progress with 5 hours still to run.

It will be interesting to see if I can go straight into another hull print without having to go through the levelling voodoo first. I had hoped the stronger springs would remove that need but we shall see sometime tomorrow

 

[lmagna]

Looks promising at this point. Let's hope.

[yvesvidal]

10 hours ago, king derelict said:

It will be interesting to see if I can go straight into another hull print without having to go through the levelling voodoo first. I had hoped the stronger springs would remove that need but we shall see sometime tomorrow

 

That is exactly what I did: Once you have the right levelling, I have not touched it since the first printed part.

 

Yves

[king derelict]

The learning experience continues but there was some positive progress to help my sanity

This morning I was very happy to find the print for hull section #3 had successfully completed. 

 

I sliced the file for section 7 and set the printer in motion. I initially used the Crealty slicer and set a skirt but it seems the program allows a skirt which is too large for the bed and the result is a tangle so I returned to the Cura slicer and a 6mm brim to help the part adhere to the bed. I was thrilled to find that the print looked good at the first attempt and I left it to its own devices. 

Driving to Aldi to buy coffee a little later it occurred to me that this was the section that has the propeller tunnel begin in mid section.

 

This meant the printer was probably going to try to build the circular section in mid air and that was unlikely to end well. In hind sight the same problem was present with section #1 where there is a section of deck. I had been a bit disappointed to find a few layers of the deck to be loose and for some reason it didn't occur to me that the printer was extruding the filament without a surface to stick to and build from. I think I escaped lightly on this one probably because it was a straight line piece. Hopefully it will be salvageable.

I couldn't see the printer coping with a mid air circular section so I reluctantly stopped the print which was looking nice.

I went back to Cura and added supports and sliced again.

Again (I'm almost afraid to say it) the print started well on the first attempt and is now in progress with supports in place.

 

So I lost a few hours and a few metres of filament but at least I didn't let the whole thing print off. As I said above I'm almost scared to think about it too much but if I now have the bed reliably levelled it is going to make this project a lot more fun.

Thanks for looking in

Alan

 

 

 

[Egilman]

Look like your learning curve is beginning to shallow out....

 

Excellent, it will get to be even more fun when it's flatlined....

 

Great deal! Enjoy...

[CDW]

Alan

 

Another thing I remembered...next time you have the machine apart, check to make sure the long threaded rods that control your vertical axis are perfectly straight and not the slightest bent. I recall that was an issue I found that was causing my first printer to lose its level. Also, make sure the gears and belt that drives the horizontal movement are top quality. All those things add up to a better, more precise experience in the long run.

[Old Collingwood]

So pleasing to see you getting there with it Alan  - a few holds of breath from us  - I can tell you.

 

OC.

[thibaultron]

Thank you for posting this tread! I'm sure what solutions you find will help the rest of us, that plan to buy one of these printers in the future.

[king derelict]

On 8/5/2021 at 8:52 PM, Egilman said:

Look like your learning curve is beginning to shallow out....

 

Excellent, it will get to be even more fun when it's flatlined....

 

Great deal! Enjoy...

Thanks Egilman

I'm looking forward to hitting the plateau😄. Getting the hull sections done will be a huge milestone

Alan

[king derelict]

On 8/5/2021 at 9:02 PM, CDW said:

Alan

 

Another thing I remembered...next time you have the machine apart, check to make sure the long threaded rods that control your vertical axis are perfectly straight and not the slightest bent. I recall that was an issue I found that was causing my first printer to lose its level. Also, make sure the gears and belt that drives the horizontal movement are top quality. All those things add up to a better, more precise experience in the long run.

Thanks Craig; I'll keep an eye on them

I think the items you mention are probably areas where there is some compromise in a hobby machine and capable of improvement. Watching the vertical rod for run out it appears to be straight but I am learning that these machines are all about small errors. Also probably why you can spent $800 on a machine instead of $200

Alan

[king derelict]

10 hours ago, thibaultron said:

Thank you for posting this tread! I'm sure what solutions you find will help the rest of us, that plan to buy one of these printers in the future.

Thanks Ron

I wanted to document the holes in the road that I fell into that Yves skills and research kept him out of. Ultimately I hope it will become a proper ships build log but I wanted to address how I got there and the effort and learning that it took.

Alan

[king derelict]

Progress continues but at the speed of printing. Adding the supports increased the build time so we are still working away on hull section 7. As you can see it will be a day and a half marathon when completed. The support structure for the prop tunnel finishes at the dotted line about halfway up and the tunnel itself is the upper section

 

Thanks for looking

Alan

[CDW]

Wow, what a marathon to print that piece!

The ant at the bottom of your control panel looks like he is observing the process while lying on his back, 🙂

[king derelict]

On 8/5/2021 at 10:40 PM, Old Collingwood said:

So pleasing to see you getting there with it Alan  - a few holds of breath from us  - I can tell you.

 

OC.

Thank you for the kind words of support OC. There have been a few moments when I have considered packing it all up and putting it in the back of the cupboard. I think I understand how to correct the bed when it is out of level but I still don't understand why it persists in going out of level. More research and trials ahead

Alan